Speculation: Discussing the Next GM (Part 2)

[Schwang]

So what are her qualifications? She has no relationships with other GM's in the league, she doesn't speak french, and she isn't a former player in the NHL which I still think is a valuable asset to have. Her only qualifications are she has played hockey, and her brother ? That Olympic gold doesn't mean you are going to be a great GM, hence Gretzky's failures in the NHL as a manager, coach etc. You can't just hire someone because they are female, you need a certain set of intangibles (in theory) to work in Montreal. Apparently a high school diploma is optional though.

As a scout, sure, but as a GM in Montreal, never. They wouldn't take Yzerman here because he wasn't french how does Granato pass any of the hurdles?

Again. The bilingual thing is ridiculous. That you would limit your hiring pool that much is just dumb when the league is approaching 32 teams now. No wonder the Habs have recycled the same coaches so many times. Hire an interpreter if it’s that important. All I want is a winning team. I don’t care what language they speak!

 

[Roadhouse]

Again. The bilingual thing is ridiculous. That you would limit your hiring pool that much is just dumb when the league is approaching 32 teams now. No wonder the Habs have recycled the same coaches so many times. Hire an interpreter if it’s that important. All I want is a winning team. I don’t care what language they speak!

Again. You end up with something like this.

"Someone even brought a dummy of Molson and put a noose around its neck."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-en-francais-protesters-chant-at-habs-game-1.1296502


...the team being built poorly doesn't bring out the mob crowds, this does. THIS.

 

[PaulD]

Wickenheiser is with the Leafs.

Complete PR move by Dubas . She does nothing.

Haley is full load med school.

 

[PaulD]

But, but, if we can make da playoff, look at da Blues, anyting can appen........

8 yrs in..............no way he deserves a 9th.

This loser ushered Markov out the door. Long time drafted Canadien. Had 5 to 7 year span where he was the best Montreal Canadien! Andre was and is still more of a Montreal Canadien than MB is or ever will be.

Yet he keeps his position with the club all the while floundering since the day he took it.

It used to be maddening. But after years of it , I just laugh.

The Canadiens under Molson and Bergevin are like running into an an old friend from the past. One that used to have it all together, and now is shockingly fat, bald, and broke.

 

[NORiculous]

Again. The bilingual thing is ridiculous. That you would limit your hiring pool that much is just dumb when the league is approaching 32 teams now. No wonder the Habs have recycled the same coaches so many times. Hire an interpreter if it’s that important. All I want is a winning team. I don’t care what language they speak!

Ok this is seen frequently on this site and it is pure BS.

About 75% (just a ballpark) of Quebec cares that the GM speaks French. If we would ask francos, the number is probably much higher.

There is also a law for big companies to use French as a language.

Québec 1st official language is French.

But the main problem with what you and others are saying is that it is implying (or you seem to think) that no french person are qualified for the job, not a single one.

For those who don’t care about language, don’t bring it up if you don’t care.

And if you do care that the GM doesn’t speak French, then you would need to explain WHY you think NO French person is qualified.

The whole « I don’t care about the language » is totally a fake narrative IMO, and it is repeated without thinking of it’s implications, because it makes zero sense when you start to dig up the implications.

Same story for coaching. Don’t tell me not one French coach is qualified enough for the job, because that is pure BS.

 

[PaulD]

Because they have no competition,if Quebec was in Seattle's shoes Magoo would have no choice but to put a better product on the ice .right now he rakes in the profits while the fans suffer with a pathetic product.if he thinks the fans will suffer through another three to eight years of bozo's brand of hockey I think the fans will just lose interest .

Lots already have.

But like Toronto a new generation come along . Even with a loser on the ice, 20,000 seats no problem to sell. Plus all the hats, jerseys, scarfs, photos, hotdogs, etc etc etc. Not problem for Magoo.

 

[PaulD]

Ok this is seen frequently on this site and it is pure BS.

About 75% (just a ballpark) of Quebec cares that the GM speaks French. If we would ask francos, the number is probably much higher.

There is also a law for big companies to use French as a language.

Québec 1st official language is French.

But the main problem with what you and others are saying is that it is implying (or you seem to think) that no french person are qualified for the job, not a single one.

For those who don’t care about language, don’t bring it up if you don’t care.

And if you do care that the GM doesn’t speak French, then you would need to explain WHY you think NO French person is qualified.

The whole « I don’t care about the language » is totally a fake narrative IMO, and it is repeated without thinking of it’s implications, because it makes zero sense when you start to dig up the implications.

Same story for coaching. Don’t tell me not one French coach is qualified enough for the job, because that is pure BS.

Nope. No one said that no french person qualifies for the job.

What is being said is, if there are five candidates and the very best candidate did not speak french he would not be hired. Dumb move.
So the Canadiens have a policy that they dont look for the best candidate period. They look for the best candidate that also speaks french.
Therefore shrinking the pool and hindering their own chances.

Ask yourself this. Who is the last Canadiens GM to be hired again after leaving the Montreal job?
and when was it?

 

[NORiculous]

Nope. No one saisd that no french person qualifies for the job.

What they say that is if their were five candidates and the very best candidate did not speak french he would not be hired.
So the Canadiens have a policy that they dont look for the best candidate period. They look for the best candidate that also speaks french.
Therefore shrinking the pool and hindering their own chances.

False narrative.

You are assuming the French is not as equally qualified.

 

[PaulD]

False narrative.

You are assuming the French is not as equally qualified.

There are not as many.

You are the one doing all the assuming .

btw. Serge Savard was the best and my favorite GM in the last 45 years.

 

[Tighthead]

False narrative.

You are assuming the French is not as equally qualified.

You are relying on a false dichotomy that someone is either qualified or not, completely disregarding the fact that not everyone is equally qualified,

 

[Beer and Chips]

What specifically has Campbell shown you that makes you think she would be a good judge of talent? Her work as a broadcaster?

She knows hockey. It's not her fault that she gets fluff pieces and her opinion isn't taken seriously because she is female. She and Hayley are winners, overcame difficulties to reach the top in women's international competition.
When I watch Canada vs US in international competitions I have always been impressed. Hockey is hockey. The women exhibitors at the all-star break should have been enough to turn heads, sadly narrow mindedness prevents some from appreciating these athletes.

 

[NORiculous]

You are relying on a false dichotomy that someone is either qualified or not, completely disregarding the fact that not everyone is equally qualified,

Again, saying that a French speaking can’t build a team that can win a Stanley cup is BS.

You can turn it the way you want, but it comes down to the fact that it is pure BS that not one French speaking (or someone that can learn it) is able to build a contender that would eventually win a cup.

 

[Tighthead]

She knows hockey. It's not her fault that she gets fluff pieces and her opinion isn't taken seriously because she is female. She and Hayley are winners, overcame difficulties to reach the top in women's international competition.
When I watch Canada vs US in international competitions I have always been impressed. Hockey is hockey. The women exhibitors at the all-star break should have been enough to turn heads, sadly narrow mindedness prevents some from appreciating these athletes.

I fully appreciate wonen’s hockey, but I have no reason to believe that anyone currently I. HNIC should be in an NHL front office.

Terms like winner and overcoming difficulty are pretty non specific and can apply to pretty much any high achieving person.

 

[Tighthead]

Again, saying that a French speaking can’t build a team that can win a Stanley cup is BS.

You can turn it the way you want, but it comes down to the fact that it is pure BS that not one French speaking (or someone that can learn it) is able to build a contender that would eventually win a cup.

Nobody said that.

Who are they? Who are the ones who you can say, with certainty, that they are able to build a contender? You make it sound like hiring a great GM is easy.

Also would like a source on your 75 per cent claim. Sounds made up and it kills your credibility.

 

[Ozmodiar]

False narrative.

You are assuming the French is not as equally qualified.

when other teams hire a GM, do they short-list the candidates, declare that they’re equally qualified, then put their names in hat to reach the final decision?

Or, do they try their best to pick the “most qualified” of those who have the qualifications to do the job?

the latter, I think. This is the GM job we’re talking about here, not their marketing department.

 

[NORiculous]

Nobody said that.

Who are they? Who are the ones who you can say, with certainty, that they are able to build a contender? You make it sound like hiring a great GM is easy.

Also would like a source on your 75 per cent claim. Sounds made up and it kills your credibility.

I said the 75% was ballpark, but it is based on the importance of French for french speaking people; which this preoccupation is so present that it is backed up by a law.

Again what you are saying is spinning. No one can assure they will win a cup, same for English speaking, so that point is a spin.

I never said it was easy selecting a GM. I said that there is absolutely zero proof that not one French speaking person is not qualified enough to build a winning team, and, that pretending as much is BS

 

[Tighthead]

I said the 75% was ballpark, but it is based on the importance of French for french speaking people; which this preoccupation is so present that it is backed up by a law.

Again what you are saying is spinning. No one can assure they will win a cup, same for English speaking, so that point is a spin.

I never said it was easy selecting a GM. I said that there is absolutely zero proof that not one French speaking person is not qualified enough to build a winning team, and, that pretending as much is BS

So you are relying on a made up statistic. Fail. That’s actually really sad.

You can’t name a candidate who meets your criteria, and you still are arguing against a point nobody has made. Double fail.

Your last sentence has way too many negatives, but I believe it is an accurate representation of your logic.

Good bye.

 

[NORiculous]

when other teams hire a GM, do they short-list the candidates, declare that they’re equally qualified, then put their names in hat to reach the final decision?

Or, do they try their best to pick the “most qualified” of those who have the qualifications to do the job?

the latter, I think. This is the GM job we’re talking about here, not their marketing department.

The short listing argument is the same narrative. It assumes no or not enough French people are currently qualified to build a contender, which I see as BS.

IF you had 50 French people in the world, that argument could hold some ground but I don’t see how it currently does.

Since no one has the perfect recipe for the qualifications needed to build a contender, it comes to subjective things (at least in part) thus making the whole narrative a false one.



at least in part,

 

[NORiculous]

So you are relying on a made up statistic. Fail. That’s actually really sad.

You can’t name a candidate who meets your criteria, and you still are arguing against a point nobody has made. Double fail.

Your last sentence has way too many negatives, but I believe it is an accurate representation of your logic.

Good bye.

Nice. Because my mother tongue is French and that I dont express myself « correctly « in english, you assume that is how I think. Fail.

the number is ballpark, as I said from the start ( you failed to read?). But it is based of how important language issues are in Québec and you failed to realise that. (Fail)

I don’t need to put forward any names for this to make perfect sense.

 

[Lshap]

I said the 75% was ballpark, but it is based on the importance of French for french speaking people; which this preoccupation is so present that it is backed up by a law.

Again what you are saying is spinning. No one can assure they will win a cup, same for English speaking, so that point is a spin.

I never said it was easy selecting a GM. I said that there is absolutely zero proof that not one French speaking person is not qualified enough to build a winning team, and, that pretending as much is BS

If you Google "best candidates for nhl general manager", most of the lists include names like Mark Hunter, Ron Hextall, Dean Lombardi, Tom Fitzgerald, plus a few others.

Do you know someone with a better resume, more success, more expertise, etc, who would make a better GM?

 

[Ozmodiar]

The short listing argument is the same narrative. It assumes no or not enough French people are currently qualified to build a contender, which I see as BS.

IF you had 50 French people in the world, that argument could hold some ground but I don’t see how it currently does.

Since no one has the perfect recipe for the qualifications needed to build a contender, it comes to subjective things (at least in part) thus making the whole narrative a false one.



at least in part,

You don’t seem to understand that other teams pick the single most qualified person for the job, regardless of language.

Let’s say they were to rank their candidates (they are not all equal), 1 through 5, they’d pick #1. They don’t pick #4 because he’s the first French speaking candidate.

 

[Schwang]

Ok this is seen frequently on this site and it is pure BS.

About 75% (just a ballpark) of Quebec cares that the GM speaks French. If we would ask francos, the number is probably much higher.

There is also a law for big companies to use French as a language.

Québec 1st official language is French.

But the main problem with what you and others are saying is that it is implying (or you seem to think) that no french person are qualified for the job, not a single one.

For those who don’t care about language, don’t bring it up if you don’t care.

And if you do care that the GM doesn’t speak French, then you would need to explain WHY you think NO French person is qualified.

The whole « I don’t care about the language » is totally a fake narrative IMO, and it is repeated without thinking of it’s implications, because it makes zero sense when you start to dig up the implications.

Same story for coaching. Don’t tell me not one French coach is qualified enough for the job, because that is pure BS.

When did I state that no French coach or gm is qualified? That’s totally not the point. The point is, why limit your hiring pool? If you do that, you aren’t hiring the best people. You’re hiring the best person from a limited pool. Every other team in the league (soon to be 31), WILL interview coaches and gm’s from anywhere in North America. Compare that to Montreal, who probably won’t even look at you if you can’t speak fluent French. If the best person is French, then great. I’m happy.
This team already has difficulty attracting anyone because of taxes, weather, media, etc. Now add the French language on top of that. Geez, the media even feels the need to go after their captains if they don’t speak French! No wonder this team has struggled.
You want success? You want Bergevin gone? Fine. Molson has all this money . Hire the best damn people to win! If all you want is someone to talk to a couple reporters in French, well.... I’m just saying you may not be able to have it both ways. So stop bitching.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

I would be fine with it being someone French but I care more about winning than the language I’m french and could care less about the language used to operate a hockey team.

It’s pretty obviously holding the organization back

 

[Deebs]

When did I state that no French coach or gm is qualified? That’s totally not the point. The point is, why limit your hiring pool? If you do that, you aren’t hiring the best people. You’re hiring the best person from a limited pool. Every other team in the league (soon to be 31), WILL interview coaches and gm’s from anywhere in North America. Compare that to Montreal, who probably won’t even look at you if you can’t speak fluent French. If the best person is French, then great. I’m happy.
This team already has difficulty attracting anyone because of taxes, weather, media, etc. Now add the French language on top of that. Geez, the media even feels the need to go after their captains if they don’t speak French! No wonder this team has struggled.
You want success? You want Bergevin gone? Fine. Molson has all this money . Hire the best damn people to win! If all you want is someone to talk to a couple reporters in French, well.... I’m just saying you may not be able to have it both ways. So stop *****ing.

It's a really sad situation.

 

[Schwang]

You don’t seem to understand that other teams pick the single most qualified person for the job, regardless of language.

Let’s say they were to rank their candidates (they are not all equal), 1 through 5, they’d pick #1. They don’t pick #4 because he’s the first French speaking candidate.

You don’t seem to understand that other teams pick the single most qualified person for the job, regardless of language.

Let’s say they were to rank their candidates (they are not all equal), 1 through 5, they’d pick #1. They don’t pick #4 because he’s the first French speaking candidate.

Thank you. Exactly my point. Speaking a certain language should not be a qualification in sports in NA. It could be an asset, for sure, but as you alluded to, would you choose candidate #4 because he’s bilingual over candidate #1 who’s a proven, better coach or gm? No one would.