Blue Jays Discussion: Dioner Navarro: The Anti-JP continues

[Eyedea]

People, Shields isn't fetching the same package he did as a TB. He is a rental instead of a guy being traded with two years left on his deal. He'll fetch significantly less but it will still cost the Jays an arm and a leg.

I am of the mind who thinks the Jays need to make little tweaks here and there instead of bringing in a big deadline acquisition. I am hoping for someone like Jason Hammel, a middle reliever to deepen the bullpen and a decent 2B if possible.

Jays send down Rasmussen and call up Korecky. I don't get why Korecky, dude was up with the Jays in 2012 and threw 87mph fastball from the right side. He is kinda reallllllly bad.

It's just in case they need multiple innings from a reliever. Give rest to the bullpen basically.

Also, Gordon Beckham has actually been hitting well this year. Might be an option at 2B.

 

[BertCorbeau]

So after the winning streak is snapped, now ESPN writes about the Jays...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It's just in case they need multiple innings from a reliever. Give rest to the bullpen basically.

Also, Gordon Beckham has actually been hitting well this year. Might be an option at 2B.

Daniel Murphy fits well. Semi-Platoon with Tolleson. Have to wait for the Mets to fall out of it, however.

 

[Stats01]

Shields would be a pretty solid pick-up and he'll cost less than Shark. Shark's stock is insane right now due to his good start, but when you actually compare both pitchers, Shields is the more proven guy. His number aren't as good as Shark's obviously but he is pretty consistent. I think KC would want Stroman in a deal for Shields for sure

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

So after the winning streak is snapped, now ESPN writes about the Jays...

Chalk full of backhanded compliments and passive aggressive musings. How I love the American media, so.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

JL (Vancouver)

Are the Jays really after Touki? From what you are hearing, are they planning to take a prep pitcher and college fielder?
Klaw (2:15 PM)

I just know they want guys with upside. Anthopoulos did go see Trea Turner at the ACC tournament (for a day - color me surprised Avent still has his job after the season they had), so he's somewhere in their mix. I have had them with Hoffman and Touki, both very high-upside selections. I don't see them taking anyone who's "safe" with a low ceiling.

Jordan (CT)

How does Aaron Sanchez look?
Klaw (2:26 PM)

Like Walker he's got that short stride and upright finish working against him.

Paul (Toronto)

Do you think DJ Davis is ever going to hit enough?
Klaw (2:30 PM)

I would bet against that.

B-Rad G (Malibu)

Did Daniel Norris get ANY consideration for your top 25?
Klaw (2:58 PM)

No.

James (Toronto)

Thoughts on why the BlueJays have done pretty good in the draft discovering talent since Anthopolous has taken over since 2010 but have struggled to develop some of their highly regarded prospects?
Klaw (3:07 PM)

Player development seems to be their main weakness at the moment - players aren't getting better in that system as often as we see players getting worse.

Mark (Toronto)

Alex Anthopolous said today that they would consider drafting Tyler Bedde again. Would he? Should he?
Klaw (3:09 PM)

What's he supposed to say? "Beede? Yeah, *&^$ that guy. We're still mad."

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/50668

From Keith Law chat today. Surprised Norris didn't get top 25 consideration but I agree with the rest.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Me: "Hey Keith, regarding Sanchez; how about that whole 'failed power sinker experiment' that 95% of the other experts praised after the fall league?"

Me: " Hey Keith, regarding Norris; how does the top ranked prep left handed pitcher from the 2011 draft, who currently has a 0.72 ERA, 1.62 FIP in a league where he is two years younger than the average age, has cut his BB/9 by almost half from 2013, while increasing his K/9 not get consideration for your top 25?"

Me: "Hey Keith, isn't it a little early to bet against a raw CF prospect, playing in a league where he is two and half years younger than the average age?"

Me: "Hey Keith, are you familiar with the term 'butt-hurt'? It seems to apply to your comments regarding the Blue Jays organization quite often."

 

[Eyedea]

Yeah, Joey Gallo cracks the top 25 (well deserved) for crushing HiA pitching, but Norris doesn't for neutralizing any sort of offence that comes his way.

Also Hunter Harvey magically gets into the top 10 for pitching well in Low A.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Me: "Hey Keith, regarding Sanchez; how about that whole 'failed power sinker experiment' that 95% of the other experts praised after the fall league?"

Me: " Hey Keith, regarding Norris; how does the top ranked prep left handed pitcher from the 2011 draft, who currently has a 0.72 ERA, 1.62 FIP in a league where he is two years younger than the average age, has cut his BB/9 by almost half from 2013, while increasing his K/9 not get consideration for your top 25?"

Me: "Hey Keith, isn't it a little early to bet against a raw CF prospect, playing in a league where he is two and half years younger than the average age?"

Me: "Hey Keith, are you familiar with the term 'butt-hurt'? It seems to apply to your comments regarding the Blue Jays organization quite often."

Think he got the message?

 

[LolungoReboundo]

Me: "Hey Keith, regarding Sanchez; how about that whole 'failed power sinker experiment' that 95% of the other experts praised after the fall league?"

Me: " Hey Keith, regarding Norris; how does the top ranked prep left handed pitcher from the 2011 draft, who currently has a 0.72 ERA, 1.62 FIP in a league where he is two years younger than the average age, has cut his BB/9 by almost half from 2013, while increasing his K/9 not get consideration for your top 25?"

Me: "Hey Keith, isn't it a little early to bet against a raw CF prospect, playing in a league where he is two and half years younger than the average age?"

Me: "Hey Keith, are you familiar with the term 'butt-hurt'? It seems to apply to your comments regarding the Blue Jays organization quite often."

LOOL

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Me: "Hey Keith, regarding Sanchez; how about that whole 'failed power sinker experiment' that 95% of the other experts praised after the fall league?"

Me: " Hey Keith, regarding Norris; how does the top ranked prep left handed pitcher from the 2011 draft, who currently has a 0.72 ERA, 1.62 FIP in a league where he is two years younger than the average age, has cut his BB/9 by almost half from 2013, while increasing his K/9 not get consideration for your top 25?"

Me: "Hey Keith, isn't it a little early to bet against a raw CF prospect, playing in a league where he is two and half years younger than the average age?"

Me: "Hey Keith, are you familiar with the term 'butt-hurt'? It seems to apply to your comments regarding the Blue Jays organization quite often."

Did you send this stuff? If so why do you care what Keith Law thinks?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Did you send this stuff? If so why do you care what Keith Law thinks?

No, that was simply a rant for my personal fun. I know KLaw's shtick, and respect his right to have one.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

No, that was simply a rant for my personal fun. I know KLaw's shtick, and respect his right to have one.

That's fair and I don't particularly care for Law either. He has said many dumb things on ESPN and continues to believe he's the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

So Stroman was scratched from his scheduled Buffalo start and Esmil Rogers will be starting instead. Manager said there was no health issues either.

Perhaps a call-up? Or *gulp* trade?

 

[Scion]

People, Shields isn't fetching the same package he did as a TB. He is a rental instead of a guy being traded with two years left on his deal. He'll fetch significantly less but it will still cost the Jays an arm and a leg.

I am of the mind who thinks the Jays need to make little tweaks here and there instead of bringing in a big deadline acquisition. I am hoping for someone like Jason Hammel, a middle reliever to deepen the bullpen and a decent 2B if possible.

Jays send down Rasmussen and call up Korecky. I don't get why Korecky, dude was up with the Jays in 2012 and threw 87mph fastball from the right side. He is kinda reallllllly bad.

I can certainly respect where you are coming from, but I am of a different opinion. I think it is imperative that the Jays make a push to acquire a top of the rotation arm ala Shields because of the age, structure, and the farm system's proximity to the Majors. The Blue Jays have a chance to contend this year, and because of how the team is set up there is a very short window to contend, I would not pursue any half measures. I believe the team needs to go all in and capitalize on an opportunity to win it all. Hammels is a nice arm, but he isn't going to push you over the top, especially in a playoff series, Shields, Price or Lee might.

I should preface all of this by saying that I prefer to go with a sustainable approach which means avoiding moves like the one I have suggested above, but all of that went out the window when the Blue Jays went all in last off-season.

 

[Scion]

So Stroman was scratched from his scheduled Buffalo start and Esmil Rogers will be starting instead. Manager said there was no health issues either.

Perhaps a call-up? Or *gulp* trade?

Trades almost never happen this early in the season, but a call-up seems unlikely too given that Stroman is coming off a shakey outing.

 

[Mach85]

^ Oldish news .. That package was reported awhile ago

Does not make any sense to make that deal ... Not only is Hutch pitching great this year, he's an integral part of the rotation - moving him to get Shark still means the Jays need another starter

I agree, it has to be prospects for another starter.

shields would be great but what would it cost? I mean they gave up Myers, Oddorizzi etc to get him thats a hefty package I don't see them parting with him for cheap

Look to the Garza deal last year as a solid benchmark. One top prospect (CJ Edwards) + two mid-level guys (Mike Olt and Justin Grimm). Shields has better pedigree than Garza, so maybe look at Stroman + Nolin + another mid-level prospect.

That's fair and I don't particularly care for Law either. He has said many dumb things on ESPN and continues to believe he's the smartest guy in the room.

Law will at least admit when he's wrong. He's written a few pieces about guys he completely whiffed on projection-wise. He's bullish about those he feels strongly about (as any good scout should be), and doesn't tolerate uneducated opinions/fans.

 

[Eyedea]

Playing RttS right now, Jays dealt A. Sanch + Lind for Fister lol.

 

[Mach85]

I can certainly respect where you are coming from, but I am of a different opinion. I think it is imperative that the Jays make a push to acquire a top of the rotation arm ala Shields because of the age, structure, and the farm system's proximity to the Majors. The Blue Jays have a chance to contend this year, and because of how the team is set up there is a very short window to contend, I would not pursue any half measures. I believe the team needs to go all in and capitalize on an opportunity to win it all. Hammels is a nice arm, but he isn't going to push you over the top, especially in a playoff series, Shields, Price or Lee might.

I should preface all of this by saying that I prefer to go with a sustainable approach which means avoiding moves like the one I have suggested above, but all of that went out the window when the Blue Jays went all in last off-season.

Price is gonna cost a chit-ton of prospects being traded intra-division. Not to mention the Verlander-type contract it would take to keep him. I doubt the Jays are in on him. I'd look at Shields as the most likely acquisition (Samardzija if the price goes down), and possibly the one with the least risk involved as well.

 

[Puckstuff]

People, Shields isn't fetching the same package he did as a TB. He is a rental instead of a guy being traded with two years left on his deal. He'll fetch significantly less but it will still cost the Jays an arm and a leg.

I am of the mind who thinks the Jays need to make little tweaks here and there instead of bringing in a big deadline acquisition. I am hoping for someone like Jason Hammel, a middle reliever to deepen the bullpen and a decent 2B if possible.

Jays send down Rasmussen and call up Korecky. I don't get why Korecky, dude was up with the Jays in 2012 and threw 87mph fastball from the right side. He is kinda reallllllly bad.

His 0.29 era in 31 innings tells a different story and 2 years is a long time. I don't mind this call up let's see what adjustments he's made

 

[Mach85]

Playing RttS right now, Jays dealt A. Sanch + Lind for Fister lol.

Well, Sanchez is no Robbie Ray but that's a good haul

 

[Nasty Nazem]

I brought up the draft and payroll concerns earlier from Shi Davidi article but it looks it may not be true. From Gregor Chisholm transcript with AA:

The payroll range that you previously mentioned, does that include the draft?
“No, No. Those are separate. Big-league payroll is totally separate than other areas, they’re not linked. You have a total baseball operations budget but payroll is payroll, draft is draft, development is development and all that kind of stuff.”

Prioritize differently in higher rounds, college over HS, because of signing likelihood?
“Each year we try to get better. We tweaked some things from a philosophy standpoint. I wouldn’t necessarily divulge that specifically, but I do think we try to make adjustments from year to year. You hope you get better and you refine your process. I’m big on going back and looking at where we made mistakes and why. I am adamantly against the, ‘it happens, no big deal.’ Let’s take something from it and let’s see why we made a mistake and what can we change in our process. It’s a constant search to try to get it right.
That’s what’s so much fun about scouting.”

http://gregorchisholm.mlblogs.com/2014/05/30/anthopoulos-talks-finances/

Interesting to note they've "tweaked their philosophy" a little bit so maybe this draft will go differently than in 2013? IIRC, Jays have essentially punted on picks 5-10 but maybe they won't do it at such an extreme level or maybe go for a mix of HS and college instead of mostly HS. Maybe target some more position players?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

His 0.29 era in 31 innings tells a different story and 2 years is a long time. I don't mind this call up let's see what adjustments he's made

The guy is 34 years old and has been pitching in Triple A since 26 years old. Probably shouldn't much stock into his numbers.

 

[Scion]

Price is gonna cost a chit-ton of prospects being traded intra-division. Not to mention the Verlander-type contract it would take to keep him. I doubt the Jays are in on him. I'd look at Shields as the most likely acquisition (Samardzija if the price goes down), and possibly the one with the least risk involved as well.

Specific names aren't really important, the point is that I think the Jays should go after a top of the rotation arm. The names I mentioned were merely guys who have been rumored to be available. I didn't include Samadzija because I am not convinced that he is a top of the rotation arm.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Mike Harrington ‏@BNHarrington 5m
Stroman: "I have no idea. I'm kind of on hold. I'm just waiting." #Bisons #Bluejays

Mike Harrington ‏@BNHarrington 3m
Stroman: "there's a chance I might be taking a car service out of here soon to go up there but other than that, I really don't know."

Mike Harrington ‏@BNHarrington 3m
Stroman says he knows he's not pitching tonight and his agent has told him to just hang on and see what happens. #Bisons #bluejays

Mike Harrington ‏@BNHarrington 29m
Plot thickens.....Marcus Stroman has arrived and is long-tossing in right field...Stay tuned #Bisons #Bluejays

This is weird.