News Article: Dion Phaneuf plays against toughest competition

[johnny_rudeboy]

Watched them all and statistics would support my opinion.

Then post this statistical proof

 

[achtungbaby]

Not a shred of truth in what you just posted.

And your rebuttal is??

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Here, look at Phaneuf's numbers with and without Gunnar:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=342&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

22.85 chances against/20 minutes when they're together, 24.87 when Phaneuf is apart from Gunnar, and 23.11 when Gunnar is away from Phaneuf. So Phaneuf clearly suffers more from being away from Gunnar than vice versa. You can look at 5v5close and zone-start adjusted if you're worried about score effects or zone starts, but they both have similar usage and zone starts so it's not that important. At best, you could make the argument that Gunnar gets easier minutes away from Dion than Dion gets away from Gunnar, but that doesn't mean that Dion is doing especially well without Gunnar.

You can also look at GA/20 like Bluelines prefers, even though it's a bad idea since it involves goaltending too. Regardless, it's not favourable to Dion: 0.692 GA/20 when they're together, 0.997 when Dion's apart, and 0.874 when Gunnar is apart.

The only thing that's favourable to Dion is chances and goals for, which tells you that Dion is better offensively than Gunnar. No duh.

Also, if you scroll down a bit, you'll notice that anyone who plays with McClement sees their offence shrivel and die immediately. McClement is just terrible 5-on-5, so he'd better be the best damn PKer in down to justify getting another contract.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Here, look at Phaneuf's numbers with and without Gunnar:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=342&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

22.85 chances against/20 minutes when they're together, 24.87 when Phaneuf is apart from Gunnar, and 23.11 when Gunnar is away from Phaneuf. So Phaneuf clearly suffers more from being away from Gunnar than vice versa. You can look at 5v5close and zone-start adjusted if you're worried about score effects or zone starts, but they both have similar usage and zone starts so it's not that important. At best, you could make the argument that Gunnar gets easier minutes away from Dion than Dion gets away from Gunnar, but that doesn't mean that Dion is doing especially well without Gunnar.

You can also look at GA/20 like Bluelines prefers, even though it's a bad idea since it involves goaltending too. Regardless, it's not favourable to Dion: 0.692 GA/20 when they're together, 0.997 when Dion's apart, and 0.874 when Gunnar is apart.

The only thing that's favourable to Dion is chances and goals for, which tells you that Dion is better offensively than Gunnar. No duh.

Also, if you scroll down a bit, you'll notice that anyone who plays with McClement sees their offence shrivel and die immediately. McClement is just terrible 5-on-5, so he'd better be the best damn PKer in down to justify getting another contract.

Anyone else Dion is paired with doesn't have the maturity to stabilise the puck. What makes Gunnarsson decent is that he is more of a passing puck mover, but lacks the offensive creativity to make it work. Dion has lacked that kind of puck moving stabilising presence since Aucoin. He's a lot like Edler, actually.

 

[diceman934]

Here, look at Phaneuf's numbers with and without Gunnar:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=342&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

22.85 chances against/20 minutes when they're together, 24.87 when Phaneuf is apart from Gunnar, and 23.11 when Gunnar is away from Phaneuf. So Phaneuf clearly suffers more from being away from Gunnar than vice versa. You can look at 5v5close and zone-start adjusted if you're worried about score effects or zone starts, but they both have similar usage and zone starts so it's not that important. At best, you could make the argument that Gunnar gets easier minutes away from Dion than Dion gets away from Gunnar, but that doesn't mean that Dion is doing especially well without Gunnar.

You can also look at GA/20 like Bluelines prefers, even though it's a bad idea since it involves goaltending too. Regardless, it's not favourable to Dion: 0.692 GA/20 when they're together, 0.997 when Dion's apart, and 0.874 when Gunnar is apart.

The only thing that's favourable to Dion is chances and goals for, which tells you that Dion is better offensively than Gunnar. No duh.

Also, if you scroll down a bit, you'll notice that anyone who plays with McClement sees their offence shrivel and die immediately. McClement is just terrible 5-on-5, so he'd better be the best damn PKer in down to justify getting another contract.

I would also add that 101 goals against this year when Dion was on the ice and 78 when Gunnar was on the ice.....as they played together for so much of the time the difference is shocking, but supports what my eyes have always told me....Gunnar is superior tp Dion defensively and the stats you posted supports my claim.

 

[diceman934]

Not a shred of truth in what you just posted.

Really?

Dion lead the league in giveaways last season.....Fact.

When Carlyle went to a 7 man rotation Dion responded by going -15 over that stretch and -21 in the last 20 games.... Fact.

Gunnar over the same stretch: Even.....Fact!

 

[81Leafs50]

So I am definitely not a stats guy, and I have no clue what those numbers mean, but on this bleacherreport article, apparently Dion plays against the toughest competition... I know alot of people are hating on him right now, so thought we could have a positive look at our current captain (like it or not, he's still wearing the C as of now"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2029357-top-5-things-the-toronto-maple-leafs-can-build-on-for-2014-15-season/page/4

This is obvious to anyone who has an IQ above 30. Phaneuf does anything and everything for the Leafs on the ice.

This town possesses very little hockey knowledge. Plain and simple.

 

[leafs in five]

Andrew MacDonald should be getting paid less than Andrew MacDonald.

great post.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Whether you like Phaneuf or not, the question to ask yourself, and what Shannahan will have to determine is, do you want Phaneuf leading the club for the next 7 years (at 7 mill) ?

I do not.

 

[hotpaws]

This is obvious to anyone who has an IQ above 30. Phaneuf does anything and everything for the Leafs on the ice.

This town possesses very little hockey knowledge. Plain and simple.

WTF do you think this even means ? DP is a good all around D but he's been living on the potential he showed his first few seasons for years and is over rated and overpaid .

You sound like a 12 year old kid crying because some one made fun of his mother .

 

[GoonieFace]

This is obvious to anyone who has an IQ above 30. Phaneuf does anything and everything for the Leafs on the ice.

This town possesses very little hockey knowledge. Plain and simple.

If doing everything and anything counts the following:

-One handed poke checks all game long

-Constantly getting manhandled by other teams forwards

-Scared to get bodychecked, jumping out of the way and coughing up the puck

-Not defending your goalie after he gets steamrolled (unless of course its Martin Havlat, than the tough guy shows up)

-Missing the net on 99% of his shots, the other 1% injuring his own players

-Defensive mistakes galore

This is Dion in a nutshell. An average defenceman with no spine or heart. Living off his reputation as a big hitter and big shot from his junior days and first few years in Calgary. Thats why the Flames dumped him for what amounts to a pile of garbage.

Wake up..this guy is a bum

 

[leafs in five]

Dion is asked to do anything and everything for the Leafs. it's not clear that he's capable of providing that for the Leafs.

 

[yubbers]

This is obvious to anyone who has an IQ above 30. Phaneuf does anything and everything for the Leafs on the ice.

This town possesses very little hockey knowledge. Plain and simple.

Including hooks, trips and slashes.

Still haven't heard anything from the supporters on that stat. How exactly is it, that a top defender in the league took the title for most minor penalties.?

 

[hotpaws]

Whether you like Phaneuf or not, the question to ask yourself, and what Shannahan will have to determine is, do you want Phaneuf leading the club for the next 7 years (at 7 mill) ?

I do not.

That question should have first been asked last summer before we extended him . Hopefully Shanny realizes we need to go in a different direction and moves DP while we still hopefully can .

 

[GoonieFace]

Including hooks, trips and slashes. Maybe that's why he lead the league in minor penalties this season.

Still haven't heard anything from the supporters on that stat. How exactly is it, that a top defender in the league took the title for most minor penalties.?

Very well said. The only people that think Phaneuf (french for putrid) is a top pairing dman, either do not watch the games or just look at the name and refuse to believe hes actually not very good.

 

[GoonieFace]

That question should have first been asked last summer before we extended him . Hopefully Shanny realizes we need to go in a different direction and moves DP while we still hopefully can .

I hope so too. This extension reeked of desperation and the timing was cheesy as hell. Reminds me of the Lupul extension as well. Who in their right minds extends an injured played, and often injured player for 5 years/ $5.25. Same with Dion, they could have waited a little longer and once he collapsed as always when the going gets tough, they could have made the right decision.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Including hooks, trips and slashes.

Still haven't heard anything from the supporters on that stat. How exactly is it, that a top defender in the league took the title for most minor penalties.?

Phaneuf just wanted it more than the other top defenders.

 

[hotpaws]

I hope so too. This extension reeked of desperation and the timing was cheesy as hell. Reminds me of the Lupul extension as well. Who in their right minds extends an injured played, and often injured player for 5 years/ $5.25. Same with Dion, they could have waited a little longer and once he collapsed as always when the going gets tough, they could have made the right decision.

Desperate GM's make desperate decisions . Grabo-JML-Lupul-Phaneuf were all short sighted resigning's by desperate GM's who were just trying to build a team good enough to squeak into the playoffs .

We're now left with a flawed core and a capped out bubble team .

 

[Dreakmur]

Desperate GM's make desperate decisions . Grabo-JML-Lupul-Phaneuf were all short sighted resigning's by desperate GM's who were just trying to build a team good enough to squeak into the playoffs .

We're now left with a flawed core and a capped out bubble team .

Exactly.

 

[Purity*]

We need to acquire a shut-down D-man in the off-season. Granberg will likely be ready next season but he will likely be on the third pairing learning the ropes against easier competition. I think a GREAT way to take the pressure off Dion and let him work a bit more magic offensively would be to acquire another shut-down D-man (preferably right-handed) to take some work-load off of Dion. It opens up alot of possibilities, think about it. We could roll something like:

Phaneuf-Rielly
Gunnar-*shutdown D-man*
Gardiner-Granberg

Rolling another shut-down D-man with Gunnar could give us our own Hammer-Oduya pairing for the tough defensive assignments. That in turn will give Dion less tough minutes and less tough competition, and he will have way more room to do his thing on both sides of the ice. Our third pairing is also pretty damn good, Gardiner took some good defensive steps this year and can shelter Granberg, while also being on the third pairing will allow him to work his magic against lesser competition.

 

[hotpaws]

We need to acquire a shut-down D-man in the off-season. Granberg will likely be ready next season but he will likely be on the third pairing learning the ropes against easier competition. I think a GREAT way to take the pressure off Dion and let him work a bit more magic offensively would be to acquire another shut-down D-man (preferably right-handed) to take some work-load off of Dion. It opens up alot of possibilities, think about it. We could roll something like:

Phaneuf-Rielly
Gunnar-*shutdown D-man*
Gardiner-Granberg

Rolling another shut-down D-man with Gunnar could give us our own Hammer-Oduya pairing for the tough defensive assignments. That in turn will give Dion less tough minutes and less tough competition, and he will have way more room to do his thing on both sides of the ice. Our third pairing is also pretty damn good, Gardiner took some good defensive steps this year and can shelter Granberg, while also being on the third pairing will allow him to work his magic against lesser competition.

Putting two guys together and letting them go into rover mode is not what i consider a recipe for success .

Gleeson and his 4mil cap hit arn't going anywhere unless we're taking back another equal dump and we can't afford a quality defensive D even if one was available.

The main problem is DP isn't good enough to cover defensively for Rielly or Gards and he isn't good enough offensively to allow him to go into rover mode .

The best solution is to trade DP and acquire a defensive D and pair him and Gunner with Gards and Reilly and allow those two to continue to develop .

 

[yubbers]

Boyle

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Boyle

He's old and not very good anymore.

Rather than staple Gunnar and Phaneuf together, I'd like to see Gardiner-Phaneuf and Rielly-Gunnarsson so there's at least one competent skater/playmaker on each pair. The main problem is that still isn't an especially good d corps, and it leaves a weak bottom pairing of Gleason - whoever. But that's going to suck as long as Gleason's around.

 

[yubbers]

Get rid of Dion, sign Boyle for 2x5, gives us veteran leadership for the young guys, can do what Dion does now, right handed and leaves us 5 years light a contract. Plus whatever you get for Dion

I wanted to see this before Dion signed his deal. The sharks collapsing may have created the perfect storm

 

[diceman934]

We need to acquire a shut-down D-man in the off-season. Granberg will likely be ready next season but he will likely be on the third pairing learning the ropes against easier competition. I think a GREAT way to take the pressure off Dion and let him work a bit more magic offensively would be to acquire another shut-down D-man (preferably right-handed) to take some work-load off of Dion. It opens up alot of possibilities, think about it. We could roll something like:

Phaneuf-Rielly
Gunnar-*shutdown D-man*
Gardiner-Granberg

Rolling another shut-down D-man with Gunnar could give us our own Hammer-Oduya pairing for the tough defensive assignments. That in turn will give Dion less tough minutes and less tough competition, and he will have way more room to do his thing on both sides of the ice. Our third pairing is also pretty damn good, Gardiner took some good defensive steps this year and can shelter Granberg, while also being on the third pairing will allow him to work his magic against lesser competition.

Gleason prevents us from getting a shut down D man as we have to pay Gleason his money......

Then please do not put a good young D man with Dion and ruin him....Dion has nothing to teach a young player. The funny thing is we need a number 1 d man to take the place of the one we are paying as a number one.