News Article: Dion Phaneuf plays against toughest competition

[Jer416]

So I am definitely not a stats guy, and I have no clue what those numbers mean, but on this bleacherreport article, apparently Dion plays against the toughest competition... I know alot of people are hating on him right now, so thought we could have a positive look at our current captain (like it or not, he's still wearing the C as of now"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2029357-top-5-things-the-toronto-maple-leafs-can-build-on-for-2014-15-season/page/4

Love him or hate him, and a lot of NHL fans love to hate him, Dion Phaneuf faced the toughest quality of competition among defensemen that played a minimum of 62 games.

He also managed a plus-two rating on a Toronto team that was badly outplayed on many nights.

Without question, Phaneuf can make some big gaffes. Yet if he had some better support, he wouldn't have to play almost all of the tough minutes that Leaf defenders face.

Phaneuf has good offensive awareness and a booming shot from the point. If he is freed up to play a more offensive game, his defensive numbers would also improve as he'll spend more time in the offensive zone with more offensive-zone starts.

Click to read more...

 

[Baarle*]

Which is why I keep repeating that instead of dumping Phaneuf, acquire another top 2/3 defender to help shoulder the load.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

He requires another d-man in the team that is defensively responsible and can share the minutes. Doesn't even have to be on his pairing.

BUT, where do we get one?

 

[TheThrill81*]

He requires another d-man in the team that is defensively responsible and can share the minutes. Doesn't even have to be on his pairing.

BUT, where do we get one?

Nowhere, it's easier for Bipolar Nation to blame and point fingers than suggest an actual solution. Lupul for Captain! Trade Homophobic Sluroof!

 

[Nasty Nazem]

It's also why his production has dropped. Wilson played him against tough competition but also gave him offensive zone starts to make up for the heavy competition. Under Carlyle, he is been used as a completely shutdown type defensemen like a Pronger/Chara type. He is just not that. He is above average defensively but he is not great. He is not the type of defensemen that should play some of toughest minutes in the league as well as start in the defensive zone most of the time.

But then again, the issue is who else do you give those tough minutes to...? It's why the defense should have been addressed last off-season instead of getting Bolland/Bernier.

 

[weems]

Just because he's playing tough minutes doesnt mean hes actually being effective in those minutes.

Someone posted a article about a month ago showing that when Phaneuf is on the ice, average players turn into very good players and very good players turn into great players and great players turn into gods. Basically saying that although Phaneuf is playing alot against these top guys he actually isnt doing a very good job and many of the other leaf D rated higher with tough minutes.

I really wish I could find the article as it was a fantastic read.

 

[Jer416]

Just because he's playing tough minutes doesnt mean hes actually being effective in those minutes.

Someone posted a article about a month ago showing that when Phaneuf is on the ice, average players turn into very good players and very good players turn into great players and great players turn into gods. Basically saying that although Phaneuf is playing alot against these top guys he actually isnt doing a very good job and many of the other leaf D rated higher with tough minutes.

I really wish I could find the article as it was a fantastic read.

The same could be said backwards. He's isn't as effective because he's been playing all those tough minutes.

Bottom line is, would you want to play against Dion or Cody?

 

[diceman934]

What a joke of an article.....

Dion played tough minutes...ok how did he do....Horrible if it were not for fantastic goal tending his stats would have been much worse. We gave up more shots then any team in the league....that to me speaks volumes as to how ineffective Dion was while playing those tough minutes.

The article that showed just how bad he did while playing those minutes was right on the money. Look at what happen to his numbers when Carlyle went to a 7 man D rotation....they went south were as his primary playing partner Gunnar was able to manage to keep his at a more respectable level.

 

[weems]

What a joke of an article.....

Dion played tough minutes...ok how did he do....Horrible if it were not for fantastic goal tending his stats would have been much worse. We gave up more shots then any team in the league....that to me speaks volumes as to how ineffective Dion was while playing those tough minutes.

The article that showed just how bad he did while playing those minutes was right on the money. Look at what happen to his numbers when Carlyle went to a 7 man D rotation....they went south were as his primary playing partner Gunnar was able to manage to keep his at a more respectable level.

http://hockey-graphs.com/2014/01/06...-players-stats-toronto-maple-leafs-d-edition/

Good illustration of Dion's QOC and how effective he is.

 

[Lauro]

Promote Granberg.

 

[cookie]

Well we have two "rookie" offensive defensemen that need sheltered minutes--three if you count Franson. That only leaves Gunnarsson, Ranger, Phaneuf and Gleason as regulars that also are veterans that should be able to burden the heavy load. Fact is that they don't because of several reasons:
-the system, where the team gets hemmed in and one that forces a lot of icings
-forwards, by not backchecking to their appropriate places in time
-forwards, by not supporting breakouts because they are too deep (system) or not smart/strong enough to maintain and take advantage of an advantageous position on the ice
-among this group, only Phaneuf and Gunnarsson can actually make a breakout pass consistenly. Ranger and Gleason have some trouble in this regard.

What we need are either a new set of defensively-conscious forwards to help the defense and/or a change in expectations. I think the change in expectations would go a long way in instilling a defense corps that can be consistent... from thereon in the hope is that they get better. Defense is a team game and one that not only starts when the opponent is in your zone. Forechecking to delay a counterattack (and get quality chances sometimes) helps the d-men and the remaining forwards get better position in their own end but with that being the case, our group still has some hiccups here and there.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Keep coming up with the excuses for your favorite player, it does not change the fact he is a terrible defenseman and a poor captain.

Phaneuf supporters often mention how he plays (by some measures) the toughest opposition in the league. And indeed, about 35% of his time on ice is against elite opponents and another 31% is against good opponents – pretty high #s. But as you should have guessed by now, that really doesn’t explain how poor his possession #s are by any stretch. As the chart above shows, Phaneuf turns 55% corsi players into 66% corsi players – these guys basically go from elite to absolutely dominant when facing Dion Phaneuf. And it’s not like Phaneuf does better against weaker players either – against poor opponents, Phaneuf turns 45% corsi players (very bad) into 53.25% corsi players (pretty darn good).

Quite simply put anyone who points out Dion faces top competition as an argument in his favor needs to understand that Phaneuf has been below average against all levels of competition and the top competition he’s faced really doesn’t do much to his numbers.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Keep coming up with the excuses for your favorite player, it does not change the fact he is a terrible defenseman and a poor captain.

It has nothing to do with "excuses", but more to do with his playing style. He's playing a shut down role and when it comes to containing top forwards like Crosby and Malkin, it can work especially if our entire team shows up. What makes Phaneuf fall apart is when he's expected to make effective use the puck on the transition. He isn't effective like Pronger ( elite one-on-one, one of best passers in NHL history) who can spend time in the defensive zone, but suddenly place opposing top lines in a vulnerable position.

Phaneuf clearly needs someone who can move the puck. Aucoin did a pretty decent job with not just Phaneuf, but also Regehr in that regard. While Dion is pretty effective in one-on-one match ups, he doesn't do a great job when he gains possession of the puck. After all, there has to be a reason why Carlyle has him play as our primary puck mover rather than Gunnarsson. Usually when dealing with defensive-to-offensive transition, give away numbers tend to increase. This noticeable with elite offensive defenceman as well, but Dion differs since he's given unusually heavy minutes.

 

[Jacques Trap*]

Norris consideration worthy one week, "plug" the next week. Lol.

 

[Faltorvo]

These are the things that this 5th highest D cap hit in the entire league will have to deal with and be successful at.

He is being paid like the 5th best defensemen in the entire league for god's sake, stop with the child like excuses.

It's time we demand that they "oh I don't know EARN" that kind of cap consumption.

Call me crazy.

 

[Dayjobdave]

We obviously need one or two more solid D men. Of course this means we should trade our best one. Only in Toronto....

 

[Bluelines]

Two things I noticed about Dion this year that, he took less high risk moves , like pinching at the blue line (IE the Boston pinch in the playoffs last year) and his defencive play dramatically took a nose dive after the Team Canada roster was announced.

No one d-man can be an island, the needs the team to play a solid team game, should come above a persons selfish desire to ONLY score. Put Chara, Webber, Lidstrom, Neidermeyer on this years team and their defensive play would suffer terribly.

The problem with the Leafs defence is no so much the personnel that we have, although it wouldn't hurt to upgrade our defencemen, its a commitment to team defence. Watching playoff hockey so far this year, you can clearly see that when doing a break out, there is always multiple options and the forwards never blow the zone too soon.

When you look at our top 5 forwards their PDO is among the worse in the league. Its frustrating to watch Kessel play defence but his poor PDO is not so much a bad thing because he scores at a 10%+ SH% clip, but for the other guys their scoring does not out weigh their lack of commitment without the puck.

Randy said himself that the team would not commit to a team defence, that is on him, if I was the GM and heard that my coach had no control over how the team played, I'd fire him faster than a scalded dog. Kessel, Kadri, Lupul should have all been benched for a few games sometime this year to send a clear message that its not acceptable to only play a one way game. It might have hurt us for a few games but IMO it probably would have prevented the late season collapse.

 

[Bluelines]

Keep coming up with the excuses for your favorite player, it does not change the fact he is a terrible defenseman and a poor captain.

OK so your opinion is not a fact, its an opinion. Statistically Dion is among the best in the league, this is supported by data so that makes it a fact and that is on a team that suffers from the defence is not my job its the other guys job syndrome.

 

[tmlfan98]

Which is why I keep repeating that instead of dumping Phaneuf, acquire another top 2/3 defender to help shoulder the load.

He requires another d-man in the team that is defensively responsible and can share the minutes. Doesn't even have to be on his pairing.

BUT, where do we get one?

How about Andrei Markov or Kimmo Timonen in free agency?

 

[Bluelines]

What a joke of an article.....

Dion played tough minutes...ok how did he do....Horrible if it were not for fantastic goal tending his stats would have been much worse. We gave up more shots then any team in the league....that to me speaks volumes as to how ineffective Dion was while playing those tough minutes.
.

Yes its was Dions fault that we gave up a lot of shots... lets just ignore that 2/3rds of the game Dion was onthe bench, lets just forget about the fact we have forwards that don't know the name of their goalies, lets forget the fact the coach had no control over his team ..but yes clearly Dion was to blame for all of it... clearly..

 

[Bluelines]

How about Andrei Markov or Kimmo Timonen in free agency?

I'd probably celebrate for a week if Markov signed a short term deal in Toronto. Hab fans say he's slow, but he makes everyone around him a better player.

 

[TheThrill81*]

Yes its was Dions fault that we gave up a lot of shots... lets just ignore that 2/3rds of the game Dion was onthe bench, lets just forget about the fact we have forwards that don't know the name of their goalies, lets forget the fact the coach had no control over his team ..but yes clearly Dion was to blame for all of it... clearly..

You're wasting your time with guys like that. They pick their scapegoats at the beginning of the season and stick with them, even when the facts prove them wrong.

 

[diceman934]

We obviously need one or two more solid D men. Of course this means we should trade our best one. Only in Toronto....

We are trading Gunnar?

 

[diceman934]

Yes its was Dions fault that we gave up a lot of shots... lets just ignore that 2/3rds of the game Dion was onthe bench, lets just forget about the fact we have forwards that don't know the name of their goalies, lets forget the fact the coach had no control over his team ..but yes clearly Dion was to blame for all of it... clearly..

When he was on the ice we gave up more shots against and less when he was not on the ice. Dion is responsible for his own play. Why are you willing to ignore this?

Gardiner on the other hand was the exact opposite. We were better with him on the ice then when he was off the ice.

 

[diceman934]

You're wasting your time with guys like that. They pick their scapegoats at the beginning of the season and stick with them, even when the facts prove them wrong.

I have not cared for Dion a lot longer than a year....and please show me any facts that support that he is a great D man or even a good D man? I will wait, but I know it will be a long wait as there simply is none other than he played the toughest minutes.....Poorly!