Dion Phaneuf. | Part ?? | "There is definitely interest" - Friedman

[Super Mega]

has Phaneuf ever been better than Kabs while wearing leafs uniforms?

 

[HockeyAndWings]

First of all, the notion that Phaneuf is better than Kaberle was when he was traded is your *opinion* it's not a fact.

But more important when discussing the value that Kaberle was able to return is the contract each player had. Phaneuf, with a seven year seven million per season contract becomes much much less desirable in terms of being an asset someone would like to acquire.

Phaneuf is better than Kaberle. If Kaberle was better than Phaneuf, Kaberle would be playing with the Leafs right now not Phaneuf.

 

[Caesium]

Phaneuf is better than Kaberle. If Kaberle was better than Phaneuf, Kaberle would be playing with the Leafs right now not Phaneuf.

Kaberle at Dion's age was better than Dion right now.

 

[CelticDruid]

Phaneuf is better than Kaberle. If Kaberle was better than Phaneuf, Kaberle would be playing with the Leafs right now not Phaneuf.

Kaberle is almost 37

 

[BlueStorm]

Kaberle, GD you Kaberle. Accept the trade and Jeff Carter + 1st rounder would be a Leaf. Sundin,a 1st 2nd & 3rd.

 

[diceman934]

has Phaneuf ever been better than Kabs while wearing leafs uniforms?

Never.....

PPG Kabs is better then Dion....

Plus/minus Kabs is a plus 17 over his career
Dion plus minus is a minus 1 over his career.

Plus minus in big games ( playoffs)
Kabs was a plus 16 in a 102 playoff games

Dion was a minus 18 in 32 playoff games.

There really is no comparison....Kabs was vastly superior.


Dion leads in stupid penalties.....

 

[ACC1224]

has Phaneuf ever been better than Kabs while wearing leafs uniforms?

Kaberle was blessed with playing on better Teams, with a legitimate top pairing partner so it's a tough comparison.

Different types of Players each with unique Top Pairing skills.

 

[Northern Dancer]

Not doing this to slag Dion but he does not have this trade history on his resume. I don't think any NHL'ers name has been involved in so many blockbusters!!!

Eric Lindros
Vinnie Lecavalier
Chris Pronger
Jeff Carter
Phil Kessel

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/08/tomas-kaberle-trade-rumour-history.html

 

[mashedpotato]

If there were interest, we should have traded him for whatever the highest returns were.

My guess is that it's true that there's interest, but the returns' isn't consistent with management expectations.

Unlikely that the returns can be increased given his salary; for those that are in a position to trade for him, their salary structure won't allow for an overpaid 2A/B defenceman.

Which leaves only the expectations of Leaf management to change.....

... as the trade deadline comes closer, expect to see either of these two factors change.

 

[4evaBlue]

It's silly to think that the entirety of Phaneuf's contract can be unloaded without a decent size contract coming back the other way. The key in such trades is to make sure the piece coming back is a better fit for the team going forward. Which team has such cap flexibility?

If the Leafs decided to eat ~$2M of his salary, he may fetch some decent return on his own.

 

[Hunter74]

It's silly to think that the entirety of Phaneuf's contract can be unloaded without a decent size contract coming back the other way. The key in such trades is to make sure the piece coming back is a better fit for the team going forward. Which team has such cap flexibility?

If the Leafs decided to eat ~$2M of his salary, he may fetch some decent return on his own.

Anaheim could fit the entirety of Phaneuf's contract but they would have to be sold on him for the next 6 years and I think that is the stumbling block if there is one.

The Ducks this summer have these guys coming off the books cap hit #.
Brewer $2.081
Souray $3.667
Beauch $3.5 - I assume they want to resign Beauch
Bryz $1.92
Allen $.809
Heatley $.0
Belesky $1.35
Cap Overage $1.27
Total = 14.597 coming off the books. If they qualify Beauch its $11.097 in cap space remaining.

They could fit Dion in if they want to.Not sure if they do or if he has that team as a team on his list of teams to get traded to. Posters love Nick Ritchie..lol

 

[A1LeafNation]

Leafs arent eating any of his contract for 6 years when bottom pairing guys like Wisniewski and Niskanen are making the money they do.

 

[Tak7]

Anaheim could fit the entirety of Phaneuf's contract but they would have to be sold on him for the next 6 years and I think that is the stumbling block if there is one.

The Ducks this summer have these guys coming off the books cap hit #.
Brewer $2.081
Souray $3.667
Beauch $3.5 - I assume they want to resign Beauch
Bryz $1.92
Allen $.809
Heatley $.0
Belesky $1.35
Cap Overage $1.27
Total = 14.597 coming off the books. If they qualify Beauch its $11.097 in cap space remaining.

They could fit Dion in if they want to.Not sure if they do or if he has that team as a team on his list of teams to get traded to. Posters love Nick Ritchie..lol

Smart teams, like Anaheim, don't absorb contracts like Phaneuf in their entirety, even if they can afford it.

Go look at Anaheim's cap structure right now - one of the best managed teams in the NHL currently.

Also - Phaneuf @ $7 million? Pretty unappealing. Phaneuf @ $5 million or $5.5 million? You can get some interest in that range.

 

[Hunter74]

Smart teams, like Anaheim, don't absorb contracts like Phaneuf in their entirety, even if they can afford it.

Go look at Anaheim's cap structure right now - one of the best managed teams in the NHL currently.

Also - Phaneuf @ $7 million? Pretty unappealing. Phaneuf @ $5 million or $5.5 million? You can get some interest in that range.

Phaneuf @ $7mil playing the way he has for the Leafs isn't very attractive but if the other GM believes he can get back to that 10g -15g, 40pt mark while playing strong defense then its not so bad especially when you see Niskanen $5.7, Orpik $5.5, Weisnwski $5.0, Wideman $5.0 and Carle $5.7 out there.

Win now is very tempting and hard to say no too. You only have so many shots at the cup with your core before you have to retool/rebuild.

 

[Kubus]

I think it's more of a question how appealing Phaneuf is at 7 for the next 6 years? I expect that after the next round of UFA contracts that the 7mil cap is not going to look that bad, mind you it won't look like a steal either.

I think it's going to come down to how much another GM believes Phaneuf will help his team for the next 3-4 years, and whether the cap increase, as I'm sure they will lose someone, is worth it.

Phaneuf might not be a guy you place all the defensive responsibilities on, but he is arguably a top 20 D in the league and that would help most teams.

 

[4evaBlue]

Phaneuf @ $7mil playing the way he has for the Leafs isn't very attractive but if the other GM believes he can get back to that 10g -15g, 40pt mark while playing strong defense then its not so bad especially when you see Niskanen $5.7, Orpik $5.5, Weisnwski $5.0, Wideman $5.0 and Carle $5.7 out there.

Win now is very tempting and hard to say no too. You only have so many shots at the cup with your core before you have to retool/rebuild.

Sure, when you compare him to other overpaid players, his cap hit seems to scale properly. Those contracts, along with Phaneuf's, belong to the group that will not likely be moved without the teams eating a mill or two from the cap hit.

 

[fahad203]

Kaberle was blessed with playing on better Teams, with a legitimate top pairing partner so it's a tough comparison.

Different types of Players each with unique Top Pairing skills.

I will beg to differ. Players like Kabs made the team a better team. He didn't have legitimate partner, he had Brian MaCabe who was another Pheneuf. He made his career


You can't look at points and see Kabs was better or not, which mind you Kabs was way better. Kabby was consistent and a smooth puck mover. He was out of the zone before you could blink. Carried the play. We don't have anyone near Kabby


We took him for granted and remember his lousy final years. If Dion played even in Quinn's team, he would still suck.

 

[Hunter74]

Sure, when you compare him to other overpaid players, his cap hit seems to scale properly. Those contracts, along with Phaneuf's, belong to the group that will not likely be moved without the teams eating a mill or two from the cap hit.

Who are you supposed to compare him to? Weber, Doughty, Peitro, Suter, Keith, Subban? Not that many players that bring offensive capabilities, defensive play and physicality to the game.

Then there is all the he is RFA, UFA, Pre CBA, post CBA and what not it gets tiring after awhile.

Another question to steer away from pay.

Has the experiment to move Phaneuf to the Left Side worked out? Franson seemed to really benefited from the move. Phaneuf's stats were decent though underwhelming until the big slide started and then the big plus minus slide started.

 

[BondraTime]

Who are you supposed to compare him to? Weber, Doughty, Peitro, Suter, Keith, Subban? Not that many players that bring offensive capabilities, defensive play and physicality to the game.

Then there is all the he is RFA, UFA, Pre CBA, post CBA and what not it gets tiring after awhile.

Another question to steer away from pay.

Has the experiment to move Phaneuf to the Left Side worked out? Franson seemed to really benefited from the move. Phaneuf's stats were decent though underwhelming until the big slide started and then the big plus minus slide started.

Well, I guess you would have two options.

1. Compare him to the guys who make what he does.

2. Compare him to the guys he is similarly skilled.

Any overlap?

 

[Stephen]

What Toronto has to hope for is other teams think Dion is a victim of our own dysfunction and can succeed elsewhere in the right conditions. I don't care if he finds his game elsewhere, he won't do it here and I just want the cap space and to turn the page on this guy.

See you at the alumni game in ten years Dion...

 

[FerrisRox]

Leafs arent eating any of his contract for 6 years when bottom pairing guys like Wisniewski and Niskanen are making the money they do.

You realize that neither of those guys are on the bottom pairing, right?

 

[Duke Silver]

Well, I guess you would have two options.

1. Compare him to the guys who make what he does.

2. Compare him to the guys he is similarly skilled.

Any overlap?

3. Ignore the circumstances under which his contract was signed.

 

[4evaBlue]

Who are you supposed to compare him to? Weber, Doughty, Peitro, Suter, Keith, Subban? Not that many players that bring offensive capabilities, defensive play and physicality to the game.

Then there is all the he is RFA, UFA, Pre CBA, post CBA and what not it gets tiring after awhile.

Another question to steer away from pay.

Has the experiment to move Phaneuf to the Left Side worked out? Franson seemed to really benefited from the move. Phaneuf's stats were decent though underwhelming until the big slide started and then the big plus minus slide started.

It's much more beneficial for Franson to go into the boards on his forehand than it is for Phaneuf. Franson has a much more active stick with longer reach, thinks the game much faster, and seems to be good at transitioning the puck with crisp passes.

I don't believe pairing Phaneuf with anyone will work well as a top pairing. He's makes his opponents earn their minutes, but his decision making in the back and quite honestly on the PP will always leave you desiring more. I believe that with that given a chance, a Rielly and Franson pairing could become a very good top pairing to start the retool with.

It is very crucial that we keep the right personnel around for the next generation of players, and I think Franson is definitely worthy of not only an extension, but to keep that A on his jersey. Franson is very articulate with the press, and I wouldn't mind him, along with the likes of Robidas, Santorelli and Winnik being the voices preaching the message in the locker room going forward, with some unnecessary "noise"/distraction eliminated w/ some TDL moves (Phaneuf, Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, etc).

Unfortunately, Franson, Santorelli and Winnik are the type of players contenders are looking for to bolster their chances at the big prize. The returns for these players will not be significant enough to make a difference in an apparently deep draft, and the team will lose too many hard workers, leaving the future leadership diluted in the process.

Go big or go home. In the case of Phaneuf, I don't particularly care what the return is, and would chalk it up to addition by subtraction.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The word "interest" is very vague, almost meaningless.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You could probably work out a deal with Anaheim, and probably a pretty good one if we took Stoner back.