Dion Phaneuf. | Part ?? | "There is definitely interest" - Friedman
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Pyromaniac3
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Most of the people like to pick scapegoats for a big collapse. Instead of picking on management or coaching for not putting players into proper roles, we blame the stars on the team when clearly no single player is responsible for team success or failure.
Dion Phaneuf didn't trade himself to Toronto and become automatically the best dman on the team. Burke traded for him. And both Burke and Nonis have failed to help him. It's just like the Sundin situation. Not saying Phaneuf is at the Sundin level, but it's a similar situation wherein he has little help
cookie
Fresh From The Oven
Would be nice if the title to the captains player discussion wasn't the opinion of someone's -especially when it is one held by a minority. While I'm not suggesting Phaneuf is the main problem, he is definitely NOT innocent/no problem. Trading the captain of a team with inconsistent compete, identity and one with little respect for their fanbase and jersey is a SOLUTION. Keeping him as the status quo captain, is not.
This is nonsense. Sundin had no help...okay. Still went to the HHOF and was regarded as a top 10 player at his position for most of his career. Captained the Swedes to Gold. This is just so lame. Dion needs to worry about himself..his own play. This constant pointing to others is so stupid. Last year it was Gunnarsson. This year its Franson or Pollack.
Geez...Kessel plays with an undrafted college boy as his center since arriving in Toronto. He could easily use this as a crutch to underperform. Cant he? Superstars or even Star players elevate others around them. IF this doesn't happen, have you ever considered the player in question is not a star?
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Now do one for every year in their career
What you'll see is that a 9th place finish in Norris voting for Weber is a floor while 11th is a ceiling for Phaneuf
Phaneuf (29): 2nd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 12th
Weber (29): 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th
Pyromaniac3
Registered User
I would rather evaluate him under a different coach. He dropped 10% in possession rating after Carlyle came in. Last year, he got the toughest minutes, started in the defensive zone way too much. It is understandable that he was crap last year.
The simple solution to all those problems would be to win. And Phaneuf can't win on his own.
Gary Nylund
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This "elevating others" is nothing but a myth. People are sheep so they keep repeating this phrase over and over again but it's still a myth.
Of course Phaneuf would look a lot better if he had a better partner and the forwards paid more attention to defence, that's obvious. Same goes for Kessel, he's basically been carrying Bozak for years. Give him a better centre and he will look better than he does now, that should be obvious as well.
Kessel isn't elevating Bozak's play. He just enables Bozak to put up numbers that he wouldn't with an average winger. That doesn't mean his play is in any way "elevated" though.
Gary Nylund
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Interesting. That seems pretty close actually. So one of these guys is supposed to be one of the best 3 guys in the NHL and the other is a pylon?
Al14
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Few players can win on their own! Few players make players around them better. Phaneuf can't do either IMHO!
Gary Nylund
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This "elevating others" is nothing but a myth. People are sheep so they keep repeating this phrase over and over again but it's still a myth.
Of course Phaneuf would look a lot better if he had a better partner and the forwards paid more attention to defence, that's obvious. Same goes for Kessel, he's basically been carrying Bozak for years. Give him a better centre and he will look better than he does now, that should be obvious as well.
Kessel isn't elevating Bozak's play. He just enables Bozak to put up numbers that he wouldn't with an average winger. That doesn't mean his play is in any way "elevated" though.
What is this post? Sheep are those who continue to regurgitate biased nonsense....you have a problem with terminology. "elevate others" is just another way of saying "carrying others" .... and you actually go on to say this re: bozak and kessel. You think Mats Sundin didn't make Jonas Hoglund a 30 goal scorer? Carried..elevated..whatever dude.
What is stupid is looking at one of the highest paid players at his position, Phaneuf and expecting others to make him look good. If Phaneuf is worth 7M he should be able to cover up for his horribly under performing partners shortcomings. But we all know he has had adequate partners, its just a lame excuse to cover up for Phaneuf's inability to be a top tier defender. Because he isnt.
Gary Nylund
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That would be dumb, who's doing that? I think Phaneuf made Gunnarson look good for most of last season and so far this year, he's making Franson look pretty good. Is that better?
1. Went to HHOF and regarded as top 10 player -- irrelevant to discussion; I already said Phaneuf was not on his level
2. Captained the Swedes to Gold - irrelevant to discussion; the Swedish national team is a powerhouse in international hockey where Gold is a realistic expectation
3. This is just so lame -- adds nothing to the discussion
4. Dion needs to worry about himself..his own play -- are you sure? When was the last time you checked out his list of things he worries about?
5. Kessel plays with undrafted college boy and still performs -- so he's performing to his potential with Tyler Bozak? But Phaneuf somehow is underperforming with Cody Franson as his partner? lol
They both would be better with better linemates, obviously.6. Elevating others' play/star player -- I never said Phaneuf was a star, not sure what you're blabbering on about here. Plus, you can't claim a player doesn't elevate the play of another player without proving it with statistics. How does Cody Franson perform when he is paired with Phaneuf vs Morgan Rielly? I'll let you look that one up.
Almost any player can make another player better. What are you even talking about?
Some are better at it than others though.
Who does Cody Franson perform better with...Morgan Rielly or Dion Phaneuf?
Want to post some WOWY stats before claiming that he doesn't elevate anyone's game??
No one expects someone to make Phaneuf look "good". He is already a well-above average NHL defenceman. That's not even debatable. A better partner would improve the top pairing. It's really that simple.
Can you prove that Phaneuf doesn't cover up some other players' mistakes? Seriously...give me something here. Maybe a WOWY analysis...showing that players have better stats without Phaneuf compared to with him....anything. Just saying it doesn't make it true. Anyone can make a claim.
Regarding adequate partners. So, in essence you are telling me that Carl Gunnarsson, and Cody Franson are viable top pairing NHL defenceman. Just so we're clear, that's what you are implying, correct? That those players are capable of performing to a reasonably effective level against the top players in the NHL every game.
This "elevating others" is nothing but a myth. People are sheep so they keep repeating this phrase over and over again but it's still a myth.
Of course Phaneuf would look a lot better if he had a better partner and the forwards paid more attention to defence, that's obvious. Same goes for Kessel, he's basically been carrying Bozak for years. Give him a better centre and he will look better than he does now, that should be obvious as well.
Kessel isn't elevating Bozak's play. He just enables Bozak to put up numbers that he wouldn't with an average winger. That doesn't mean his play is in any way "elevated" though.
Not knocking Dion, but how much better can Franson be?...tied for 19th in +/- among defencemen and tied for 11th in points. I'd say Dion has a partner at the moment who is not the problem.
I have to admit, I get tired of the "Dion needs a better partner" crap. Most #1 d-men play with a 3-5 guy, not a legit 2. Dion's partners have not made him look bad. You don't hear people say Sidenberg makes Chara look bad Or Muzzin makes Doughty look bad etc etc etc.
Top players DO make their linemates or partners have an "elevated level of play"...that's why you see these guys move on in free agency for big money, get a bigger role on the new team and not look good without the guy who "elevated their play". You may not like the wording, but it isn't BS.
StringsAttached
BPD Nation!
Not a fan of Phaneuf at all but this team wouldn't even sniff daylight without him. It would be similar to the final scene of 2005's 'The Descent'.
Very versatile and underrated d-man prone to making a boneheaded play now and again. He's quietly redeeming himself as a #1 Dman. +/- looks terrific and putting up points all while playing alongside Franson (who has improved somewhat too). It's getting harder to knock this guy with each passing game.
Very versatile and underrated d-man prone to making a boneheaded play now and again. He's quietly redeeming himself as a #1 Dman. +/- looks terrific and putting up points all while playing alongside Franson (who has improved somewhat too). It's getting harder to knock this guy with each passing game.
Not sure where these Norris voting numbers are coming from...As far as I can tell, Dion has went 3 of the past 4 years without even one vote for the Norris. He finished 11th in 2012/13, but besides that didn't even get 1 vote the other 3 years. Weber 3rd,8th,2nd,2nd in the same time span.
Leafin
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You don't hear those arguments against Doughty and Kieth and Weber and whoever because they do not play in Toronto.
Media outlets do not care for hockey as much outside of Toronto. All those guys would be crucified in the Toronto spotlight. Its not Phaneufs fault the franchise has been doodoo for nearly 50 years.
Give Phaneuf a good defensive partner while also getting some forwards to actually play defense and you will see an improved Phaneuf. None of our forwards backcheck on a consistent basis. Our forward group is nice to look on the statsheet as goal and assist producers, but not the games won column.
Media outlets do not care for hockey as much outside of Toronto. All those guys would be crucified in the Toronto spotlight. Its not Phaneufs fault the franchise has been doodoo for nearly 50 years.
Give Phaneuf a good defensive partner while also getting some forwards to actually play defense and you will see an improved Phaneuf. None of our forwards backcheck on a consistent basis. Our forward group is nice to look on the statsheet as goal and assist producers, but not the games won column.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
Redeeming him self .....well he has never been a number one D man. ..so unless he proves himself to be one in the future it would be the first time. In Calgary he put up good offensive numbers but was not played as a number one D man. In Toronto he has played as if he was a number one and his offensive numbers has fallen and his defensive numbers not as good as his playing partner and his total minutes need to drop so that he can maintain any semblance of a decent d man..
diceman934
Help is on the way.
So Poor Dion needs a better partner and a better team and then he will look good in another market as the media is at fault for his poor play as well.....got it!
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