Dion Phaneuf contract talk: Twitter, THN, TheStar links

[AvroArrow]

6M for Dion. 7 years

 

[Dreakmur]

Phaneuf has played with Regehr, Bouwmeester, Beauchemin.....Hamrlik, Ference, Kaberle, Giordano, Aucoin....and has never "played less".

Actually, when Calgary brought Jay Bouwmeester in, Dion Phaneuf played less...

 

[Dreakmur]

Opinion and logic are not the same thing.

That's true, but one would hope you would use one to form the other.

Your logic: Phaneuf plays more because he has to. Keith plays more because he's good.

You say Seabrook would make Phaneuf play less, what logic are you referring to?

I picked Seabrook as just one example. Chicago's top-4 defense is miles ahead of Toronto's. When a coach has numerous options, he tends to use those options.

The fact that Toronto has poor depth, combined with the fact Carlyle really stresses match-ups, means Phaneuf almost certainly gets more ice time than he otherwise would, especially the tough match-up minutes.

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

A reduction in salary or a trade.

Nonis has demonstrated that he won't allow sentiment or misplaced loyalty to force his hand the way Burke did.

My guess is Phaneuf will take a small reduction. There simply is no other market that would provide the kind of attention and weirdly inappropriate deferential treatment that his ill-gotten C has given him in Toronto.

 

[Durrr]

6M for Dion. 7 years

Pretty sure it's already been stated by the media that he wont take any cap hit under 6.5. Not sure why posters keep posting these ridiculous contracts (not you specifically, although its going to be 8 years garanteed). I see people in here posting 5.5ish x 8 year contracts, it'l never happen people.

Zeke posted a perfect comparison to show Dion's true value against Seabrook and Keith. He is a better offensive player then either one of them, lacking in defence a tad. Now, I know the pointless rebuttal to this is "well Keith's cap hit is 5.4 and he's a better overall defencmen", which may be true BUT if you actually looked at his contract you'll see that it really is a cap circumventing contract which if signed now comes out to 7,210,000 AAV if you take away the years he will be getting paid 4-1mil annually. This of course, not even including the 7.5 million in bonus that can no longer be added to contracts without affecting the cap.

People can make up whatever excuses they want but this is a business that relies on statistics and results just like any other. Dion plays like a 7 million $ player regardless of peoples deep routed opinions and made up facts. You can say he isn't Weber or Chara quality all you want, but he's still going to be paid.

Edit: lol @ next post.

 

[Damisoph]

4yrs/$28m? That would be nice, keep the term relatively short.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I personally feel that if we can't re-sign him, we're going to trade him for another offensive/stay at home defense hybrid (because imo that's what Phaneuf is)

but I mean. look at this list from capgeek. these are all the defensemen available for ufa.

Boyle, Dan » D SJS 37 $6,666,667 2014 (UFA)
Phaneuf, Dion » D TOR 28 $6,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Timonen, Kimmo » D PHI 38 $6,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Markov, Andrei » D MTL 34 $5,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Pitkanen, Joni » D CAR 30 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Meszaros, Andrej » D PHI 27 $4,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Zidlicky, Marek » D NJD 36 $4,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Quincey, Kyle » D DET 28 $3,775,000 2014 (UFA)
Orpik, Brooks » D PIT 33 $3,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Salo, Sami » D TBL 39 $3,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Schultz, Nick » D EDM 31 $3,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Mitchell, Willie » D LAK 36 $3,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Tallinder, Henrik » D BUF 34 $3,375,000 2014 (UFA)
Girardi, Dan » D NYR 29 $3,325,000 2014 (UFA)
Robidas, Stephane » D DAL 36 $3,300,000 2014 (UFA)
Ericsson, Jonathan » D DET 29 $3,250,000 2014 (UFA)
Phillips, Chris » D OTT 35 $3,083,333 2014 (UFA)
Klesla, Rostislav » D PHX 31 $2,975,000 2014 (UFA)
Greene, Matt » D LAK 30 $2,950,000 2014 (UFA)
Morris, Derek » D PHX 35 $2,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Niskanen, Matt » D PIT 26 $2,300,000 2014 (UFA)
Nikitin, Nikita » D CLB 27 $2,150,000 2014 (UFA)
Emelin, Alexei » D MTL 27 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Sarich, Cory » D COL 35 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Hainsey, Ron » D CAR 32 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Stuart, Mark » D WPG 29 $1,700,000 2014 (UFA)
Butler, Chris » D CGY 26 $1,700,000 2014 (UFA)
Stralman, Anton » D NYR 27 $1,700,000 2014 (UFA)
Hunwick, Matt » D COL 28 $1,600,000 2014 (UFA)
Belov, Anton » D EDM 27 $1,525,000 2014 (UFA)
Murray, Douglas » D MTL 33 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Russell, Kris » D CGY 26 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Bouillon, Francis » D MTL 37 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Grebeshkov, Denis » D EDM 29 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Fayne, Mark » D NJD 26 $1,300,000 2014 (UFA)
Fraser, Mark » D TOR 27 $1,275,000 2014 (UFA)
Brookbank, Sheldon » D CHI 33 $1,250,000 2014 (UFA)
Diaz, Raphael » D MTL 27 $1,225,000 2014 (UFA)
Lee, Brian » D TBL 26 $1,150,000 2014 (UFA)
Weaver, Mike » D FLA 35 $1,100,000 2014 (UFA)
Stoner, Clayton » D MIN 28 $1,050,000 2014 (UFA)
Ranger, Paul » D TOR 29 $1,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Hannan, Scott » D SJS 34 $1,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Fistric, Mark » D ANA 27 $900,000 2014 (UFA)
Corvo, Joe » D OTT 36 $900,000 2014 (UFA)
Benoit, Andre » D COL 29 $900,000 2014 (UFA)
Whitney, Ryan » D FLA 30 $900,000 2014 (UFA)
Gilbert, Tom » D FLA 30 $900,000 2014 (UFA)
Gervais, Bruno » D PHI 29 $825,000 2014 (UFA)
Prosser, Nate » D MIN 27 $825,000 2014 (UFA)
Smith, Derek » D CGY 28 $775,000 2014 (UFA)
Potter, Corey » D EDM 29 $775,000 2014 (UFA)
Bickel, Stu » D NYR 27 $750,000 2014 (UFA)
Sulzer, Alexander » D BUF 29 $725,000 2014 (UFA)
Mottau, Mike » D FLA 35 $700,000 2014 (UFA)
Gill, Hal » D PHI 38 $700,000 2014 (UFA)
Komisarek, Mike » D CAR 31 $700,000 2014 (UFA)
Schultz, Jeff » D LAK 27 $700,000 2014 (UFA)
Gilroy, Matt » D FLA 29 $700,000 2014 (UFA)
Taormina, Matt » D TBL 26 $650,000 2014 (UFA)
Landry, Jon » D MIN 30 $625,000 2014 (UFA)
Kostka, Mike » D CHI 27 $625,000 2014 (UFA)
Connelly, Brian » D MIN 27 $612,500 2014 (UFA)
Guenin, Nate » D COL 30 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Yonkman, Nolan » D ANA 32 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
McNeill, Patrick » D CLB 26 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Pardy, Adam » D WPG 29 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Johnson, Aaron » D NYR 30 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Chorney, Taylor » D STL 26 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Eckford, Tyler » D OTT 28 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Mullen, Patrick » D VAN 27 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Alberts, Andrew » D VAN 32 $600,000 2014 (UFA)
Syvret, Danny » D NYR 28 $587,500 2014 (UFA)
St-Denis, Frederic » D CLB 27 $575,000 2014 (UFA)
Genoway, Chay » D WAS 26 $575,000 2014 (UFA)
Engelland, Deryk » D PIT 31 $566,667 2014 (UFA)
Piskula, Joe » D NAS 29 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Moore, Mike » D BOS 28 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Brouillette, Julien » D WAS 26 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Rodney, Bryan » D NAS 29 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
MacDonald, Andrew » D NYI 27 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Flood, Mark » D CAR 29 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Strachan, Tyson » D WAS 28 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Davison, Rob » D SJS 33 $550,000 2014 (UFA)
Finley, Joe » D NYI 26 $537,500 2014 (UFA)

I don't see someone who stands out and screams "INSTANT REPLACEMENT!" and as our core is so young, yes we need more experience on the back end, but it's not like we can go sign Dan Boyle or whomever.

 

[Durrr]

I personally feel that if we can't re-sign him, we're going to trade him for another offensive/stay at home defense hybrid (because imo that's what Phaneuf is)

but I mean. look at this list from capgeek. these are all the defensemen available for ufa.



I don't see someone who stands out and screams "INSTANT REPLACEMENT!" and as our core is so young, yes we need more experience on the back end, but it's not like we can go sign Dan Boyle or whomever.

That's just it, there is no replacement that we could obtain without overpaying due to free agency. The way people here talk about giving dion the money he deserves, wait til the leafs are forced to pay timmonen 6 for lesser play.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Dion is the best defenseman in that pending UFA list. I don't see any one of them being able to replace Phaneuf's defensive plays.

Phaneuf does make those bad plays once in a while. But who doesn't? When I look back at Detroit pre-season, or the first 2 regular games; it makes me appreciate Phaneuf more and more.

IIRC, Phaneuf was on ice for only 1 goal scored by DET in pre-season.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Props should go to Phaneuf for playing a ton of minutes, playing good defence, and creating a couple of big goals in the last couple of games. He and Franson are looking pretty good so far.

 

[BillyD]

going to try really hard this year to pretend dion is a number one D and that being out of position all the time and idiotic give-aways don't matter

 

[Daisy Jane]

truthfully - if we were going to ship up the defense via UFA, it was this year.
We could have gone for Ferrance (from all reports, I don't think we even considered him). the other high end one (Rob Scuderi wasn't really interested in coming here).

our team is a weird one because yeah, it's not "high end/brilliant talent" like other teams, but we make it work. Phaneuf is key for our defense. I think we've got good talent in the wings, but we need to let them finish baking first. Nonis flat out said he's not trading for any 35 year olds (ergo I don't see him signing anyone) and we don't really want to move too many pieces for lateral movements either.

I think the caving point will be on both ends. (ie: if we pay Phaneuf money, he gives up term, or we give him term, and he relaxes on money). I don't see Phaneuf asking for term AND money

 

[JackJ]

I'm still laughing we got Franson for Lebda

Taking on dumped contracts/overpaid players has worked out well for us in almost every trade.

Phaneuf
Lupul
Gardiner
Franson
Versteeg (Could be considered a dump) traded for 1st (Percy) and 3rd (Leivo)

Only one was a wash: Toskala + Blake for Giguère.

Impressive

 

[diceman934]

That's true, but one would hope you would use one to form the other.



I picked Seabrook as just one example. Chicago's top-4 defense is miles ahead of Toronto's. When a coach has numerous options, he tends to use those options.

The fact that Toronto has poor depth, combined with the fact Carlyle really stresses match-ups, means Phaneuf almost certainly gets more ice time than he otherwise would, especially the tough match-up minutes.

If minutes played is the measuring stick then Bozak is a first line center who is vastly under paid.

Dion is a very Good D man...most certainly not Elite and not in the discussion with the very best....he is in the next group. Why we would pay him among the Elite as some on here are suggesting is nuts.

 

[Dreakmur]

If minutes played is the measuring stick then Bozak is a first line center who is vastly under paid.

Dion is a very Good D man...most certainly not Elite and not in the discussion with the very best....he is in the next group. Why we would pay him among the Elite as some on here are suggesting is nuts.

I don't think I have ever said he sucks. I think I have been consistent in my opinion that he is ranked in the 20s among defensemen in the league. That makes him a passable #1 defenseman, but not an ideal one.

 

[ULF_55]

The going rate has to be considered for contracts agreed to in the existing CBA.

The going rate has to be considered for like position, example defender compared to defender.

Center compared to center.

Throw out those contracts over 8 years as they are no longer considered valid in today's CBA.

NHL Rank|Player|Pos|Team|Age|Start|End|Length|Cap
10|Pietrangelo, Alex »|D|STL|23|2013|2020|7|$6,500,000
12|Timonen, Kimmo »|D|PHI|38|2013|2014|1|$6,000,000
15|Enstrom, Tobias »|D|WPG|28|2013|2018|5|$5,750,000
20|Ekman-Larsson, Oliver »|D|PHX|22|2013|2019|6|$5,500,000
23|Streit, Mark »|D|PHI|35|2013|2017|4|$5,250,000
25|Bogosian, Zach »|D|WPG|23|2013|2020|7|$5,142,857
27|Edler, Alexander »|D|VAN|27|2013|2019|6|$5,000,000
28|Gonchar, Sergei »|D|DAL|39|2013|2015|2|$5,000,000
31|Visnovsky, Lubomir »|D|NYI|37|2013|2015|2|$4,750,000
32|McDonagh, Ryan »|D|NYR|24|2013|2019|6|$4,700,000
42|Vlasic, Marc-Edouard »|D|SJS|26|2013|2018|5|$4,250,000
43|Shattenkirk, Kevin »|D|STL|24|2013|2017|4|$4,250,000
44|Voynov, Slava »|D|LAK|23|2013|2019|6|$4,166,667

Certainly, UFA versus RFA is different, but ending a contract at age 28-29 is very different than ending a contract at age 36.

So would you rather be paying a 28 year old 6.5 million or a 35 year old 6.5 million?

 

[veedubn1]

I don't mind bringing back Dion for 6.5M per.. but only for 5 years

If he wants a raise to 7M, then 4 years... there has to be some compromise on Dion's part if he truly wants to help this team contend one day.

 

[zeke]

Dion is a very Good D man...most certainly not Elite and not in the discussion with the very best....he is in the next group. Why we would pay him among the Elite as some on here are suggesting is nuts.

and it's only by some trick of magic that he manages to put up numbers comparable to only the elite defensemen, in all areas of the game, and way better than the "next group".

simply magical that so many leafs manage to match all the numbers of "much better" players on other teams, even while the Leafs team win as much or more than the teams of those other players.

 

[zeke]

going to try really hard this year to pretend dion is a number one D and that being out of position all the time and idiotic give-aways don't matter

It's not hard - all you have to do is educate yourself by watching the "elite" defensemen on other teams just as closely as you watch Phaneuf.

But that, of course, would actually require you to put some effort into it, instead of just lazily watching highlights.

 

[zeke]

Certainly, UFA versus RFA is different,

stop right there.

 

[zeke]

UFA Dman contracts:


S.Weber $7.86 x 14 (signed thru age 40)
R.Suter $7.54 x 14 (signed thru age 40)
B.Campbell $$7.14 x 8 (signed thru age 37)
Z.Chara $6.92 x 7 (signed thru age 40)
D.Boyle $6.67 x 6 (signed thru age 37)
K.Timonen $6.00 x 1 (signed thru age 38)
T.Enstrom $5.75 x 5 (signed thru age 33)
A.Markov $5.75 x 3 (signed thru age 35)
D.Keith $5.54 x 13 (signed thru age 40)
J.Wisniewski $5.50 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
M.Carle $5.50 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
J.Bouwmeester $5.40 x 5 (signed thru age 35)
D.Wideman $5.25 x 5 (signed thu age 34)
M.Streit $5.25 x 4 (signed thru age 39)
A.Edler $5.00 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
P.Martin $5.00 x 5 (signed thru age 35)
S.Gonchar $5.00 x 2 (signed thru age 41)

 

[Pyrophorus]

Girardi and MacDonald are interesting.

 

[Daisy Jane]

UFA Dman contracts:


S.Weber $7.86 x 14 (signed thru age 40)
R.Suter $7.54 x 14 (signed thru age 40)
B.Campbell $$7.14 x 8 (signed thru age 37)
Z.Chara $6.92 x 7 (signed thru age 40)
D.Boyle $6.67 x 6 (signed thru age 37)
K.Timonen $6.00 x 1 (signed thru age 38)
T.Enstrom $5.75 x 5 (signed thru age 33)
A.Markov $5.75 x 3 (signed thru age 35)
D.Keith $5.54 x 13 (signed thru age 40)
J.Wisniewski $5.50 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
M.Carle $5.50 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
J.Bouwmeester $5.40 x 5 (signed thru age 35)
D.Wideman $5.25 x 5 (signed thu age 34)
M.Streit $5.25 x 4 (signed thru age 39)
A.Edler $5.00 x 6 (signed thru age 33)
P.Martin $5.00 x 5 (signed thru age 35)
S.Gonchar $5.00 x 2 (signed thru age 41)

fourteen years? were those some of those cap circumventing contracts people were talking about? (crap, 14 years...)

 

[Vexed]

It's not hard - all you have to do is educate yourself by watching the "elite" defensemen on other teams just as closely as you watch Phaneuf.

But that, of course, would actually require you to put some effort into it, instead of just lazily watching highlights.

I agree

There is so much talk about Phaneuf like the 'elite' defensemen that people love so much don't make similar mistakes game in and game out.

Not many D are as physical as him with the same amount of scoring potential. He is what many would call a 2-way defender and a lot of comparisons people make are with either purely offensive defenders or purely defensive defenders.

I don't feel our issue is Dion but rather with our lack of depth on the blue line.

 

[Vexed]

fourteen years? were those some of those cap circumventing contracts people were talking about? (crap, 14 years...)

Yea those teams are going to be in tough. I'm very glad we didn't sign any players to those fiascos