Dion Phaneuf contract talk: Twitter, THN, TheStar links

[KesselLooksLikeRadar*]

8 years, 6.5 per is what I am hoping for. 7 and I am still happy, but, I doubt many of you would be

 

[Phaneuffan3]

6.5 is too much unless it's signed after the season and he returns to form. calgary era form when he played like a tank, got 17ish goals and 40ish points.

if he keeps the course i'd give him no more then 5.9.

Hard to take this seriously considering:
- 10/11 (first full season as a leaf):8G 30pt in 66gp (on pace for 37pt) (3 away from your target of 40 significantly lower goal totals)
- 11/12: 12g 44pt 82gp (exceeded your point totals (4) 5 less goals scored
- 12/13: 9G 28pt 48gp (on pace for 15G 48pt in 82gp again surpassing your 40pts watermark and 2 less goals than the 17 you crave)

You realize he put up those numbers in Calgary playing virtually the easiest minutes on the team. He now plays the toughest minutes in the league (statistically backed) and his offence has only tailed slightly. He went through an adjustment period in that started when Calgary asked him to take on more defensive responsibilities. We are reaping the benefits of their lack of patience with him.

At the end of the day Dion is a guy that can give you a not only dependable but productive 25min a night while still bringing some grit and toughness to the lineup.

 

[The Apologist]

8 years, 6.5 per is what I am hoping for. 7 and I am still happy, but, I doubt many of you would be

I have a feeling he'll come in around 6.8 over 8 years.

I don't mind the 6.8, but the 8 will bug me.

 

[zeke]

Just watch a game and how many times are you yelling at the TV "****ing Phaneuf"

Boston fans do the same with Chara.

Sens fans do the same with Karlsson.

Preds fans do the same with Weber.

defensemen, even elite ones, get burned. a lot.

 

[Pi]

In a huge Preds fan myself. Can't even count the number of times I would lose it on Weber or Suter....

Okay let's look at it another way:

Suter + Weber = Playoffs for Nashville.

No Suter = bottom 5 finish despite having a #1D.

Suter goes to Minny, Minny makes the playoffs, Suter is a disappointment in the playoffs.

Same way...Phaneuf without support = NO playoffs for the Leafs. Phaneuf with support = playoffs but not as great in the playoffs as we would like.

Clearly what we need to do is bring or develop another player of Phaneuf' calibre rather than not signing him like some people here suggest because they don't want to pay him 6.5M+.

 

[zeke]

No, it means Keith is really great. Take Seabrook away, and Keith plays even more. Bring Seabrook into Toronto, and Phaneuf plays less.

Phaneuf has played with Regehr, Bouwmeester, Beauchemin.....Hamrlik, Ference, Kaberle, Giordano, Aucoin....and has never "played less".

 

[Deebo]

Phaneuf has played with Regehr, Bouwmeester, Beauchemin.....Hamrlik, Ference, Kaberle, Giordano, Aucoin....and has never "played less".

5 different NHL coaches played him over 24 minutes a night, the only time in his career where he didn't average over 24 minutes was under Darryl Sutter in his rookie season.

 

[Faltorvo]

All I am saying is that if he is not an all round defeneseman, he shouldn't be considered that "top 1%" Just a very good defenseman.

Aye he may not be top 1% and niether should his cap hit, thats all i'm saying.

 

[Faltorvo]

and apparently no JBoy either



yes and one level up(reserved for the very few) the "SUPER DUPER ELITE" category

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

seriously though whether dion is a top 10/15/20/25 in the league is only a matter of opinion and highly subjective to those expressing that opinion I mean heck there are people who will try to tell you that Marc Staal has some kind of elevated offensive prowess

what does matter is that dion is the Leafs #1 not to mention the team captain and will remain one of the most important cogs in the Maple Leaf wheel for the next 5-7 years if he stays, so why not maintain his place on the team and sign him to a contract befitting his current status

8 years X 7m

if Nonis gets him for less then it's gravy, if he has to pay him much more then 7.25 then the term gets shorter, if Dion demands more then 8 then there is the trade deadline to consider

Dion will be 29 when his new deal kicks in, i sure as hell don't want to pay someone 7m when they are 36,37.

 

[The Apologist]

Okay let's look at it another way:

Suter + Weber = Playoffs for Nashville.

No Suter = bottom 5 finish despite having a #1D.

Suter goes to Minny, Minny makes the playoffs, Suter is a disappointment in the playoffs.

Same way...Phaneuf without support = NO playoffs for the Leafs. Phaneuf with support = playoffs but not as great in the playoffs as we would like.

Clearly what we need to do is bring or develop another player of Phaneuf' calibre rather than not signing him like some people here suggest because they don't want to pay him 6.5M+.

Hopefully one of: Franson, Rielly, Gardiner, Percy hell even Finn are that 1b/2 guy we are craving.

 

[zeke]

an 8 year deal would take him to age 36, not age 37.

and in 8 years, 7m will be 2nd line money, anyways.

 

[The Apologist]

Dion will be 29 when his new deal kicks in, i sure as hell don't want to pay someone 7m when they are 36,37.

agreed

 

[Holymakinaw]

That's unfortunate.... I was hoping we could get him for 5.5-6M, I don't want to see my favorite Leaf go.

Why would he take a paycut?

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Just how old are these posters whining again about Dion - 12? The guy just played two excellent games in a row and made both plays that led to the Leafs victories. I gotta believe they're the same punks who constantly shouted to get rid of Kessel for the past 4 years. You take Dion out of that defence and suddenly this team is miles from a playoff spot. With Leaf fans like you, we don't need Leaf haters, you do the job just fine!

The Phaneuf haters keep chanting, "trade him!", but have no answer for who can fill the role he plays.

Until we have someone to eat those mins up, we need him. That is why he will be resigned.

Whether you agree he is top two or not, he plays top two minutes.

 

[Faltorvo]

Dion born April 10 1985.

New deal kicks in Oct 2014, do the math if it's a 8 year deal.

He will be 37 if we go deep into the POs during the 7th year of the contract and will turn 38 during the season after that ,if we go deep, or is my math wrong on this?

7m will be 2nd line money in 7 years, really?

Thats a joke, Sundin made what when he played for us?, 7,8,9 m per and that was how long ago.

7 years at a 3m per raise in cap only gets you a 21m cap lift, not even 1m per raise, per roster spot.

2008/2009 season 24 teams had a player being paid 6.5m + per, many had multiple players.

Looks to me like top sals have pretty much flat lined, 08/09 well thats 5 salary cycles ago.

 

[TieClark]

No idea if he'd go for it, but you could go something like 7, 7, 7, 6, 4, 4, 3 or something along those lines and bring that cap hit below the 6 mark while giving him the term.

 

[LEAFSIN4]

I don't mind paying him 6.5, 7 max but I'd think twice about giving him more than 5 years and a NTC at that high of a salary.

All of these contracts may be good for the next 3-4 years, but we don't want a Muskoka/NTC 5 situation again.

 

[LEAFSIN4]

No idea if he'd go for it, but you could go something like 7, 7, 7, 6, 4, 4, 3 or something along those lines and bring that cap hit below the 6 mark while giving him the term.

The last year has to be at 3.5 but yeah you can do that.

This actually would make sense if he's looking for term. Pay him according to what you think he'll be worth at his age in each specific year.

7, 7, 7, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4

8 years 45 million for a 5.625 average. I'd give him a NTC if he took 1-2 million less to bring the average below 5.5

 

[Faltorvo]

The last year has to be at 3.5 but yeah you can do that.

This actually would make sense if he's looking for term. Pay him according to what you think he'll be worth at his age in each specific year.

7, 7, 7, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4

8 years 45 million for a 5.625 average. I'd give him a NTC if he took 1-2 million less to bring the average below 5.5

pretty sure the actual cash part for the first 4 years will be 8m per, heck Kessel is pulling in a shade under 10m cash per for his first 4.

 

[IBeL34f]

Dion born April 10 1985.

New deal kicks in Oct 2014, do the math if it's a 8 year deal.

He will be 37 if we go deep into the POs during the 7th year of the contract and will turn 38 during the season after that ,if we go deep, or is my math wrong on this?

I have done the math. 14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18, 18/19, 19/20, 20/21, 21/22 are the 8 seasons he would play here on a contract of that term. That means he would turn 37 on approximately the last day of that 8th regular season.

Something like 7, 7, 7, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5 (annual cap-hit at $6.125M) would be a fair deal, I think. However, I'm not opposed to anything between $6-7M cap-hit. We've spent so much of the past 9 years without star talent that we entirely forget what it's like to pay for it. We should be happy to have guys worthy of earning top-dollar.

The best post I saw in regards to the Kessel negotiations was:

And it applies to Phaneuf as well.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Phaneuf IS an ideal #1. He just isn't elite like Chara/Weber. Too bad most of you guys don't know the difference between ideal and elite.

Eww...Weber is so overrated. He is certainly not elite. Chara, probably. However we don't really have a Lidstrom or Pronger in the NHL. It's obvious that's what most who think Phaneuf who wants $2 want.

This is a Larry Murphy situation all over again. We have someone with very special skill set, but instead of criticizing the pieces around them ( severely overrated here), we go after them. Murphy ended up winning a cup after he left Toronto and is a HOFer as well. I don't think Nonis wants to be doing that again.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Your ability to consistently have no clue what you're talking about is really starting to impress me. Not many posters are so capable of being wrong all the time. His fights with Iginla are well known are they. To who, exactly? Was that ever even confirmed? All Calgary ever said was that it was way overblown and nothing much happened. The fact he isnt going for open ice hits all the time (he still does he just doesn't take himself out of the play to do it anymore) indicates his game has matured. Tell me, how many hits did he have last season? Oh, the top 10 of defensemen you say? Yeah get outta here.

Well said. We could say the same about Chara. He was punked by Bickell and was killed by speed in the finals.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Eww...Weber is so overrated. He is certainly not elite. Chara, probably. However we don't really have a Lidstrom or Pronger in the NHL. It's obvious that's what most who think Phaneuf who wants $2 want.

I don't know man, Weber and Phaneuf are eeriley similar players and their offensive #s match really closely, so if your gonna sit there and say Weber isn't elite then you have to say Phaneuf isn't either. The two things I don't like about the Weber situation is a) he was offered $9.5M by the flyers b) I don't like that Nashville matched it, I say that because hes not worth the dollars and secondly you don't sign a guy who doesn't want to be there in the 1st place. However I like Phaneuf, he's IMO a #1D on most teams for sure but I don't think hes an elite guy nor do I think hes a HOF at this point, that being said he's critical to the Leafs and we need to resign him pronto.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Eww...Weber is so overrated. He is certainly not elite. Chara, probably. However we don't really have a Lidstrom or Pronger in the NHL. It's obvious that's what most who think Phaneuf who wants $2 want.

I don't know man, Weber and Phaneuf are eeriley similar players and their offensive #s match really closely, so if your gonna sit there and say Weber isn't elite then you have to say Phaneuf isn't either. The two things I don't like about the Weber situation is a) he was offered $9.5M by the flyers b) I don't like that Nashville matched it, I say that because hes not worth the dollars and secondly you don't sign a guy who doesn't want to be there in the 1st place. However I like Phaneuf, he's IMO a #1D on most teams for sure but I don't think hes an elite guy nor do I think hes a HOF at this point, that being said he's critical to the Leafs and we need to resign him pronto.

That's the idea. Phaneuf, by a number, isn't elite then I doubt Weber could be the same. Nashville - including Weber - looked pretty bad ( forfeiting for goals than us) under Trotz hard trap system.

Then again, I usually find these comparisons pointless. These are the same people who want to sign McClement for $3.8 billion while having concerns of giving Phaneuf a ~$500k cap raise.

Forgot I quoted this. Yeah, that makes zero sense. You're saying Seabrook eats into Keith's ice-time even though they play together, so no, his ice wouldn't change, only players like Hammer/Oduya/Leddy would see increases in ice-time. As for Dion, if somehow we got Seabrook, depending on who left the defence (if it was say Fraser or Gunnarson, players who play the same role as Seabrook - defensive d-men) then again, Dion's ice stays the same. If it's a guy like Gardiner or Franson removed, and we're adding another defensive minded d-man in Seabrook to who we have, maybe Dion's ice time drops a bit, but still unlikely or not by much since he's better than everyone else still anyway.

It's very difficult to put Phaneuf under a "defensive" or "offensive" category. He is simply used more extensively on the defensive end than either Keith/ Seabrook. In fact, during his pre-draft years, his parsimonious defensive game was well regarded. The problem was that Phaneuf wasn't well utilised Calgary.

I could see Phaneuf being utilised even more with Keith or Seabrook as his partners. His shut down ability is simply better than Gunnarsson, Oduya and Seabrook. Chicago doesn't really have a traditional shut down approach, and heavily rely on the likes of Toews, Hossa and Sharp against top lines.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Dion born April 10 1985.

New deal kicks in Oct 2014, do the math if it's a 8 year deal.

He will be 37 if we go deep into the POs during the 7th year of the contract and will turn 38 during the season after that ,if we go deep, or is my math wrong on this?

7m will be 2nd line money in 7 years, really?

Thats a joke, Sundin made what when he played for us?, 7,8,9 m per and that was how long ago.

7 years at a 3m per raise in cap only gets you a 21m cap lift, not even 1m per raise, per roster spot.

2008/2009 season 24 teams had a player being paid 6.5m + per, many had multiple players.

Looks to me like top sals have pretty much flat lined, 08/09 well thats 5 salary cycles ago.

Phaneuf is going to be productive even in those coming years. He isn't as physical as he was during his earlier years. Once his offensive numbers start to wane, he's going to be able to revert to a more physical form.

In addition, his offensive numbers starting "falling" because of our higher tempo, defence porous, system. I think the fact that he takes less risks for the team is a good thing. More so, we still have a hard time having our forwards provide good puck support. I like Bozak, but if he had a strong possession centre like Sundin, our first line wouldn't appear as a liability when entering the offensive zone. JVR will have to evolve and essentially inherit Bozak's defensive duties much like Sharp does with Handzus. This issue is even more pronounced for Kadri, whose turn over-prone game is placing a lot of pressure on our defenceman.

That being said, I believe that my earlier position that Bolland was actually going to be part of our skilled two-way line is going to be realised. He's taking Colborne's role when Bozak was out during the playoffs. In other words, Bolland may be glued with Lupul ( I expected JVR, though) and give us an offensive arsenal that would be defensively sound as well.