Did Wendel Clark deserve his banner raised?

[Ash35]

Kept thinking to myself: " One ( Clark) of these things is unlike the other ( Roy), when both had their #'s retired on the same night.

I just think a 13 time stanley cup franchise with the likes of Kennedy, Bower, Apps, Conacher, etc, should honor the true greats. Players who were elite.

Well don't because Clark represents everything you would want in a Leaf.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Well don't because Clark represents everything you would want in a Leaf.

Just saying it's a stark contrast in standards.

 

[Ash35]

Just saying it's a stark contrast in standards.

Well Clark rocketted more than a few past Roy if that makes you feel any better.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Well Clark rocketted more than a few past Roy if that makes you feel any better.

I'm sure they had plenty of "Warriors" and " Heart and soul" guys in their day. Doesn't mean the Habs retire their #'s. They've only did it for hofers and cup winners.

It's tough not to compare the two most successful franchises in league history.

 

[Barilko14]

I'm sure they had plenty of "Warriors" and " Heart and soul" guys in their day. Doesn't mean the Habs retire their #'s. They've only did it for hofers and cup winners.

It's tough not to compare the two most successful franchises in league history.

Check back and see if they had a guy who was their best goal scorer, best hitter and best fighter all rolled into one?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Clark sacrificed his stats, for his team and teammates. He played in an era when fans didn't judge players just by their stat line.

 

[egd27]

Check back and see if they had a guy who was their best goal scorer, best hitter and best fighter all rolled into one?

Clark led the team in goals his first 2 seasons......that's all.

Clark sacrificed his stats, for his team and teammates. He played in an era when fans didn't judge players just by their stat line.

Ok, now we've hit a new level of platitudes.

Did he he miss so many games because he was rescuing kittens that were trapped in trees?

 

[thewave]

Clark led the team in goals his first 2 seasons......that's all.



Ok, now we've hit a new level of platitudes.

Did he he miss so many games because he was rescuing kittens that were trapped in trees?

Its a trigger Marner... Lock load and troll at will it seems. Clark was a good player but you woulf think he was a 50 gpal scorer and all star year after year. He wasnt.

 

[Barilko14]

Clark led the team in goals his first 2 seasons......that's all.

And he played a full season in how many of those other seasons?

Where would he rank in goals per game those other seasons?

So he was a mediocre goal scorer now too.

Did he do anything well in your opinion?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Clark led the team in goals his first 2 seasons......that's all.



Ok, now we've hit a new level of platitudes.

Did he he miss so many games because he was rescuing kittens that were trapped in trees?

He played a team first type of game, he fought, big hits, stuck up for his teammates, leader and his body took a pounding against the bigger guys.

 

[thewave]

He played a team first type of game, he fought, big hits, stuck up for his teammates and his body took a pounding against the bigger guys.

Best player in Leafs history needs a movie.. Clark

 

[Mr Hockey]

the Best player in Leafs history needs a movie. Clark

Here you go ...

 

[egd27]

And he played a full season in how many of those other seasons?

His inability to play full seasons is one of the reasons I don't believe he is worthy of number retirement ( and I know it wasn't his fault he was injured before you all jump on that one)

Where would he rank in goals per game those other seasons?
I don't know, I researched how often he led the team in goals, perhaps you can research points you would like to make.

So he was a mediocre goal scorer now too. I didn't say that, I said he only led the Leafs in goals his first 2 seasons.....he was a good goal scorer, but not an elite one

Bossy - .76 GPG
Ovechkin - .60 GPG
Neely - .54 GPG
Vaive - .50 GPG
Clark - .42 GPG



Did he do anything well in your opinion? Sure....he had a great shot, he was tough, he was a good player on some very bad teams. He was also a very likeable guy that to the best of my knowledge was good in the community. IMO he just wasn't good enough to have his number retired.

My responses in red

 

[Mr Hockey]

My responses in red

Does Clark make your all time leaf team, Y/N? ...

 

[egd27]

Does Clark make your all time leaf team, Y/N? ...

Team have 14 forwards? yes

9 forwards? no

One line? Not a chance

 

[Barilko14]

Team have 14 forwards? yes

9 forwards? no

One line? Not a chance

Well Clark finishing 15th on the all time list puts him right there for jersey retirement and honour row, and I doubt all the voters were 40 year olds that only have fond memories from their youth.

 

[DitchMarner]

He was a phenom when he was a rookie. We talked about him the way we talk about Matthews. Different era when he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer while taking on the baddest hombres in the league. Franchise player. Back injury derailed a sure fire hall of fame career. Even so, he meant so much to a franchise in turmoil, what he did, bad back and all, is astonishing.

Are you saying he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer in a different era?

He played during the HIGHEST scoring era and wasn't that.


He was a 34 and 37 goal scorer, which was good but not elite in his first two seasons.


He ranked 37th in the NHL for goals as a rookie...

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=19851986&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals

He ranked tied for 21st in the NHL for goals as a sophomore...

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=19861987&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals


Matthews' 40 goal season (tied for the second most goals) in a much lower scoring League is much more impressive. That's not surprising seeing as Matthews is a much better player than Clark. AM would have scored 50+ in the 80s.

Clark was a unique player in that his appeal transcends his actual capability as a hockey player.

 

[Rick74*]

 

[Mess]

Are you saying he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer in a different era?

He played during the HIGHEST scoring era and wasn't that.


He was a 34 and 37 goal scorer, which was good but not elite in his first two seasons.


He ranked 37th in the NHL for goals as a rookie...

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=19851986&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals

He ranked tied for 21st in the NHL for goals as a sophomore...

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...=19861987&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals


Matthews' 40 goal season (tied for the second most goals) in a much lower scoring League is much more impressive. That's not surprising seeing as Matthews is a much better player than Clark. AM would have scored 50+ in the 80s.

Clark was a unique player in that his appeal transcends his actual capability as a hockey player.

Many younger fans might not know this but Wendel Clark was a Dman for the Blades of the WHL when the Leafs selected him.

A star junior hockey defenceman with the Saskatoon Blades of the Western Hockey League, Clark was a member of Canada's gold medal winning team at the 1985 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships

Clark was converted to forward after he was selected first overall by the Toronto Maple Leafs in the 1985 NHL Entry Draft. Clark was known for his physical play and his offensive mind combined with scoring prowess. As tough as Clark was, his scoring touch and offensive ability was equal to his on-ice toughness. Clark's 227 PIM in his rookie season was the 1985-86 Toronto Maple Leafs team high, along with 34 goals which also led the team. After his rookie season, he was named to the NHL All-Rookie Team and finished third in voting for the Calder Memorial Trophy.

Those totals are not only for a rookie and sophomore player by Wendel, but those 34 (in 66 games) and 37 goals (in 80 games) it was also being converted from defense to LW at the same time he was breaking into the league.

Don't forget also he spent 227 and 271 (nearly 500 Pims) in his first 2 season combined. Can't score from the penalty box.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

I always got the feeling that the fans who doubt Clark either never saw him play or if they did see him play were fans of the more skilled side of the game.

His body broke down from giving it his all game in and game out. The only guy I can ever recall in the blue and white who would throw a thunderous body check, fight the toughest guys in the league (probert) and then score. Clark was a lunch pail guy who could snipe with the best of the finesse guys. He was like an all round hockey machine. As a fan of the more physical side of the game, it was a real treat watching both him and Cam Neely in the league at the same time. True power forwards the likes of we just don't see today. It would be like having the snipe of Kessel, the drive of Hyman, and the sandpaper of Martin all rolled into one player.

I was just a kid when 17 stormed into the league and he made me a huge hockey fan overnight. Clark was God to me. I hated that trade for Sundin then and I still do now.

 

[crump]

Are you saying he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer in a different era?

No. That's not what I am saying.



I am saying if he didn't get injured he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer. He did actually score 46 one year so he was indeed THAT.

 

[moon111]

Can you imagine being an opposing goalie if you had Clark and Iafrate on the power-player using modern sticks? If you put Kessel in Clark's position, I wonder how much smaller the Leaf's fan base would be? When some are talking about stats, how Clark only put up so many points, etc.... I can't decide if they're arguing for or against a Clark's banner raising? Points are one thing, but they're not everything. How many Leafs would you put above Daniel Marois and his 76 point season? There's only been 17 Leafs that have had better offensive seasons then that. But the guy was just a fringe player who seems to have some offensive chemistry with Damphousse.

 

[Barilko14]

My responses in red

Goals per game in whole seasons Clark was on Leafs.

2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 1st, 5th, 1st and 2nd.

I think Clark deserves the honour but I won't debate that Gilmour truly turned the team around. This team was horrible offensively for a couple of years, especially 90/91.

Clark played on some pretty horrible teams in until about '93.

Wonder if that had any impact on his scoring?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Wendel Clark was one of the NHL's best power forwards to ever play. At 18 yrs old he scored 34 goals and fought every heavyweight fighter in the league. He earned his number being raised and a statue on legends row.

 

[Barilko14]

Are you saying he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer in a different era?

No. That's not what I am saying.



I am saying if he didn't get injured he would have been a 40-50 goal scorer. He did actually score 46 one year so he was indeed THAT.

If he didn't get injured, and if he ever had an Adam Oates type to play with. Leafs were an average offensive team in 5 of 10 of his full seasons. Bottom 5 in 4 seasons, and 3rd in one season.

Even when Gilmour got here, he played with Andreychuk.

Alot of factors that aren't ideal for someone to put up HOF #s.

The fighting would obviously effect his hands as well as damage his back. Not a great idea for a goal scorer to constantly be punching people's skulls.

These will sound like excuses to some people that don't think he deserves to be honoured, but I've always been curious what Clark would have been able to do in a better situation.