Did signing Tavares lead to the Leafs' downfall?

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yes because of the downstream effects.

Giving him $11 mill set the internal pay scale and raised the future cost of the young guns.

Without giving him $11, you probably don't have to pay Matthews and Marner $10+ each. You instead could've given them a McAvoy type of deal 3-5 years at $5-$7 per. Also you can make the case Nylander doesn't hold out either.

Also Tavares wasn't a need with the young offense. The need was a #1D, which it still is.

With the large contracts that followed they had to dump all of their good depth players. They have zero depth and zero "dirty work" players left which is why they aren't winning. You need the guys to do the little things. JVR, Kadri, Komarov are the types of guys you need in your middle 6 to win. They're your skill+grit

 

[Nithoniniel]

Absolutely not. Tavares was a huge influx of quality. If there was a need to re-balance the lineup, he makes other assets expendable.

Besides, this thread is a thing because we're dreadful right now. This is a team built the same way as the ones the previous two years. Those teams breached 100 points. There's absolutely no reason this team should be this bad.... except this team relies on a type of game that would work with a heavy team that can grind out a good cycle. We dump the puck in, we get it to the point, we swarm the net. No team in the league does this more than us. Our d-men don't have the same green light to jump up in the play. We barely ever try to actually move the puck towards the slot, something we've excelled at previous years.

Ask yourself, is that the best system to get the most out of Nylander, Marner, Johnsson and guys like that?

So far this season, Matthews-Nylander has been the only forwards to play effective offensive hockey at even strength. I have no idea how that's even possible with a roster like ours.

 

[Matty Sundin]

I do think he wasnt an urgent need for them when they got him but hes still a fine good player which should of made other players expendable but they havent. They needed defence. It was an issue in the 2018 NHL playoffs before they got JT and it's even a bigger issue now.

 

[beach]

Their recent slide got me thinking.

What possible motivational speech can Tavares as Captain give in the locker room that his teammates would find believable?

I could see Tavares practicing his speech:

“It’s about being loyal to the team that drafted you... no that won’t do”

“It’s about not turning your back on your fans and teammates who have always supported you.... no that won’t do either”

“It’s about doing what you say you’re gonna do... DAMN!”

“It’s about not leaving until the job is done........CRAP!”

“It’s about........ oh forget it”

The guy no longer has any credibility as a leader. As a fellow player and knowing his history with his previous team who would actually take him seriously?

He can try "Domo arigato Mr. Roboto" while showing no expression.

 

[BruinLVGA]

what downfall, it is 20 games into year 2 and the Leafs are 4 points out of a playoff spot, Islander fans getting excited over this need to check themselves

If denial was a disease, you should call an ambulance right away. You're conveniently forgetting games played, of which the Leafs have more than the teams around them. For example, the team directly behind (-2 points) the Leafs in the standings, Tampa, has played FIVE LESS games.

In reality, the Leafs have a 478 points percentage (25th in the league), which projects to a 78 points season.

 

[FourRings]

Absolutely not. Tavares was a huge influx of quality. If there was a need to re-balance the lineup, he makes other assets expendable.

Besides, this thread is a thing because we're dreadful right now. This is a team built the same way as the ones the previous two years. Those teams breached 100 points. There's absolutely no reason this team should be this bad.... except this team relies on a type of game that would work with a heavy team that can grind out a good cycle. We dump the puck in, we get it to the point, we swarm the net. No team in the league does this more than us. Our d-men don't have the same green light to jump up in the play. We barely ever try to actually move the puck towards the slot, something we've excelled at previous years.

Ask yourself, is that the best system to get the most out of Nylander, Marner, Johnsson and guys like that?

So far this season, Matthews-Nylander has been the only forwards to play effective offensive hockey at even strength. I have no idea how that's even possible with a roster like ours.

Question: What happened to the team after Tavares joined? I'm not being sarcastic, but Babcock was still the coach the year before they got him and the team looked a lot different stylistically (for the better). Did he switch things up when they acquired JT?

 

[swimmer77]

Feel like they should have kept Kadri and traded Nylander for that d-man. Kadri doesn't shy away from physical contact and has become a good faceoff guy. IDK..........I think he is missed in Toronto. The Tavares deal I guess has cash strapped them a bit so maybe all the more reason to keep Kadri and unload Nylander.

 

[Zeeker]

Probably not. But it is a shame that Tavares is just toiling away in Toronto. The Islanders are finally unleashed and it’s quite something.

 

[The Big Swede13]

Question: What happened to the team after Tavares joined? I'm not being sarcastic, but Babcock was still the coach the year before they got him and the team looked a lot different stylistically (for the better). Did he switch things up when they acquired JT?

This team has always performed in spite of Babcock not because of him. He’s basically managed to have one of the worst pp’s in the league with Matthews,Tavares,Marner,Rielly and Johnsson on it

 

[Bomber0104]

Absolutely not. Tavares was a huge influx of quality. If there was a need to re-balance the lineup, he makes other assets expendable.

Besides, this thread is a thing because we're dreadful right now. This is a team built the same way as the ones the previous two years. Those teams breached 100 points. There's absolutely no reason this team should be this bad.... except this team relies on a type of game that would work with a heavy team that can grind out a good cycle. We dump the puck in, we get it to the point, we swarm the net. No team in the league does this more than us. Our d-men don't have the same green light to jump up in the play. We barely ever try to actually move the puck towards the slot, something we've excelled at previous years.

Ask yourself, is that the best system to get the most out of Nylander, Marner, Johnsson and guys like that?

So far this season, Matthews-Nylander has been the only forwards to play effective offensive hockey at even strength. I have no idea how that's even possible with a roster like ours.

This post is a total contradiction.

 

[AvatarAang]

reasons the leafs suck (in descending order):

trading kadri instead of nylander
marner being hurt




...




don cherry and his love for poppies


...

leafs signing tavares

 

[Nithoniniel]

Signing Tavares was a great move, the mistake was not moving one of the other forwards for D and arguably trading Kadri.

Kerfoot has been an adequate replacement for Kadri. Besides, Kadri cost us in two straight playoffs. Talk around the Leafs was that the team got so fed up they didn't want him in the room.

I think that if Barrie had been Avs-Barrie, we would talk about a very good defense that is too balanced towards offense... kind of like the team as a whole. But with him being like this, our defense as a whole look weak.

Question: What happened to the team after Tavares joined? I'm not being sarcastic, but Babcock was still the coach the year before they got him and the team looked a lot different stylistically (for the better). Did he switch things up when they acquired JT?

We did the exact same things last season as the one before. This year it seems that there's been so much focus on bringing down mistakes that it's killed what made us effective offensively.

 

[izlez]

What downfall?

They are a bad team that "started" bad, continued to be bad, and is currently bad. What did they "fall" from?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think the answer is looking pretty obvious today. Leafs should have kept some of that 11m to address depth and character in their line up. Its becoming very obvious dubas has built a flawed team. Tavares is not a 11m dollar player this year. I would argue he was never deserved to be paid as the 2nd best player in hockey. Now this year he even looks a tad slower than before. This contract is not going to age well and he cannot be traded. He has a full no trade. Ouch.

 

[ABCUser]

Their recent slide got me thinking.

What possible motivational speech can Tavares as Captain give in the locker room that his teammates would find believable?

I could see Tavares practicing his speech:

“It’s about being loyal to the team that drafted you... no that won’t do”

“It’s about not turning your back on your fans and teammates who have always supported you.... no that won’t do either”

“It’s about doing what you say you’re gonna do... DAMN!”

“It’s about not leaving until the job is done........CRAP!”

“It’s about........ oh forget it”

The guy no longer has any credibility as a leader. As a fellow player and knowing his history with his previous team who would actually take him seriously?

Great points! He should've never been made captain, who can take him seriously?

I have no doubt Tavares is wondering if he made a huge mistake leaving the Isles. He was the face of this organization and could've been taking all the credit for the success the Islanders are having now. Instead the Islanders are going places without him and now he's just a hired gun for a failing team who doesn't really need him. But, oh well, live with your decisions. Like I've said in other posts, my only regret about losing JT is not getting anything back for him. In fairness, he's everything we're missing right now. We would hands down be a Stanley Cup favorite with him on this team.

Agree with this. He was probably on his way to getting a cup, his number retired, and a banner with the other Islander immortals. Instead he's probably just going to be a footnote in the Leafs history and I got a feeling it's going to get really ugly with that contract and his already declining skating.

 

[lorwood]

I think the real question is was JT the easy signing or was he the right signing? It’s very easy to get swept up in the fantasy league mentality and very hard to build within a planned system. So at only money signing JT was easy but stepping back and deciding if he was a good system signing without consideration of your next two or three moves seems to have been too much for the Toronto brain trust

 

[benedictTavares]

JT forcing Kyle's hands in offering that extra 2M/year is what set off a chain reaction. You have to wonder if he takes their original contract offer if Matthews and Marner don't also shave off a couple M/year to help out the team.
If they each would have taken 2M/year less that's enough for an extra capable D.

 

[Brunomics]

He can try "Domo arigato Mr. Roboto" while showing no expression.

And that is why he should never be captain of a team. Definitely should always have an "A" but he's not a leader and that's fine.

I feel like Mathews should have had the "C" a lot more than him. But personally I feel like MLSE wanted the safe route and therefore ended up with their MLSE appointed corporate captain.

Also when it comes to the 11 million in salary they didn't need to go sign a Karlsson type. Use that money to build an extremely reliable type 4 around Morgan Reilly. Tyson Barrie while putting up a lot of points isn't the type of dman that was needed and is in a role where he can't flourish.

 

[voxel]

Lol... no. JT is not the issue.

Leafs never had much of a D. Leaf fans had no clue what a D-man should play like. Leafs play high-event, high-tempo hockey and rely on above average goaltending. Once the team failed to score 4+ goals a game they stopped winning.

 

[yegoldboysclub]

Islanders sure took off when the got rid of Taveres, makes me wonder what kind of guy he is with the team. Islander basically had zero success with him as a Captain for many seasons. Now its Toronto that is close to the bottom of the standings. Could be nothing there, but you its very similar to his time in NYI.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Signing Tavares was smart, resigning Nylander was not. Changed roster too much after losing a hard fought series to the Bruins who went to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. Should’ve just tinkered with the roster, seem to have lost chemistry.

 

[authentic]

They definitely could still make it but a turnaround has to happen virtually next game. They need a 38-21 record in their final 59 games to hit 97 pts which would likely be a wildcard spot.

Problem is that they’ve been mediocre for almost a full calendar year now. They’re at the start of a pretty big road trip and their star goal scorer has only 1 road goal on the year and it came in the 2nd game of the year. Many things need to change and change quickly for them.

I still don't get why they don't just fire the coach already. It's the only thing that could immediately cause a big turnaround for them at this point.

 

[authentic]

Islanders sure took off when the got rid of Taveres, makes me wonder what kind of guy he is with the team. Islander basically had zero success with him as a Captain for many seasons. Now its Toronto that is close to the bottom of the standings. Could be nothing there, but you its very similar to his time in NYI.

He single handedly won them their only playoff series win wtf is this lol

 

[Sky04]

Leafs fans hate on Marner yet go into complete freefall when he gets injured. At least Marner was able to carry the team to wins when Matthews goes out.

 

[Ararana]

I think it had more to do with Dubas refusing to trade one of the other three big forwards when Tavares was signed to help balance his roster.

We can and we will, but should we have?