Rumor: Dhaliwal - Canucks will now take best offer for Horvat

[Peter Griffin]

The problem right now, didn't the GM openly say he's not letting anyone talk to his agent?

Canucks would get an increasingly better offer if that was the case.

I don't think anything was openly said but I think that's solely because they haven't closed the book on re-signing him yet. I can't remember if it was about Miller or Horvat, but I remember Rutherford saying something along the lines of "if we can't keep him then we'll have to find a situation for him to go to where we can maximize the return".

Why is that sickening? A young NHL RD or C would be a hockey trade. I'd far rather get an established, known asset than a late first and prospect.

Would you rather have Brendan Carlo/Andrew Peeke, or a defensive prospect with a much higher ceiling that is 1-2 years away? Keeping in mind you're trading your leading goal scorer and captain, so one of those defenseman isn't going to improve the team at this stage anyway.

 

[BCNate]

The problem right now, didn't the GM openly say he's not letting anyone talk to his agent?

Canucks would get an increasingly better offer if that was the case.

I think those comments are out of context.

No, the Canucks are not allowing GM's to openly contact Horvat's agent. That could tank the return for the team.

I fully expect as they narrow down trade partners and have the framework for a deal, the those teams will be able to work with Horvat and his agent.

 

[wintersej]

Fair enough, Lysell is probably a better prospect than they should expect along with a 1st. But the point remains, it’s not enough for a signed Horvat with cap dumps. For taking on Reilly alone you’re looking at a 2nd+.

I agree that including Reilly will cost that. I think that for most of the teams the Canucks are looking at dealing with, taking back some salary/retention for THIS YEAR ONLY is going to be the cost of doing business just because the cap is weird this year. Carolina, Columbus, Colorado, Boston... only the Islanders will have the space at the deadline. I just don't think that the Canucks are going to have the leverage to make demands for salary stuff that is for 2023 only.

 

[D0ctorCool]

I can smell a Roslovic+Peeke+2nd type trade coming.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I can smell a Roslovic+Peeke+2nd type trade coming.

Smells like shit.

 

[topched88]

Have zero confidence a horvat trade is imminent. The team direction hasn't shifted evidenced by the fact they actually offered a max term extension, regardless of terms that shows where their head is at.

Bet the house they make Horvat another offer before moving him.

 

[Nucker42]

I can smell a Roslovic+Peeke+2nd type trade coming.

Exactly. Limited upside, more immediate help. The circle goes round and round.

Biggest joke of a team in the league. Seriously considering Seattle to start cheering for.

Aqualini is hands down the worst owner on the planet.

 

[D0ctorCool]

Exactly. Limited upside, more immediate help. The circle goes round and round.

Biggest joke of a team in the league. Seriously considering Seattle to start cheering for.

Aqualini is hands down the worst owner on the planet.

You'd think I'd be used to receiving somber Canuck news, but it never gets easier.

 

[Viqsi]

I can smell a Roslovic+Peeke+2nd type trade coming.

Don't you DARE give us needless hope like that.

 

[BCNate]

I don't think anything was openly said but I think that's solely because they haven't closed the book on re-signing him yet. I can't remember if it was about Miller or Horvat, but I remember Rutherford saying something along the lines of "if we can't keep him then we'll have to find a situation for him to go to where we can maximize the return".


Would you rather have Brendan Carlo/Andrew Peeke, or a defensive prospect with a much higher ceiling that is 1-2 years away? Keeping in mind you're trading your leading goal scorer and captain, so one of those defenseman isn't going to improve the team at this stage anyway.

I don't think Carlo is on the table with the season the Bruins are having, I think the return would far more likely be futures from them. Peeke would likely come with another quality piece, as that deal would almost assuredly have an extension in place. It woudl really depend on what that piece is.

But, to answer your question, I would need to understand who these defensive prospects with high ceilings are that you are targeting. I'm not sure many near NHL ready D prospects with top pairing potential are on the table.

 

[Peter Griffin]

But, to answer your question, I would need to understand who these defensive prospects with high ceilings are that you are targeting. I'm not sure many near NHL ready D prospects with top pairing potential are on the table.

Well from Columbus for example, would you rather have Andrew Peeke and a 2nd or Corson Ceulemans and a 1st? Both picks in the 2024 draft as Columbus isn't dealing their 1st this year.

 

[D0ctorCool]

Don't you DARE give us needless hope like that.

We've been exporting our hopes and dreams to other franchises for the last 10 years. CBJ may as well get in while the getting is good!

 

[Viqsi]

We've been exporting our hopes and dreams to other franchises for the last 10 years. CBJ may as well get in while the getting is good!

I'm not sure if that's compatible with our "no happy endings allowed" policy, but who knows.

(truthfully I don't want to give up Peeke, but, well, the post was there and it had to be done, I'm sure you understand )

 

[Peter Griffin]

Have zero confidence a horvat trade is imminent. The team direction hasn't shifted evidenced by the fact they actually offered a max term extension, regardless of terms that shows where their head is at.

Bet the house they make Horvat another offer before moving him.

I think this is exactly where it’s trending, same situation as Miller. They’ll see if anyone meets their lofty trade expectations and when nobody does, they’ll up their offer. If Horvat again refuses, then near the deadline is when this talk will get real and a lot will depend on where they actually sit in the standings.

 

[BCNate]

Well from Columbus for example, would you rather have Andrew Peeke and a 2nd or Corson Ceulemans and a 1st? Both picks in the 2024 draft as Columbus isn't dealing their 1st this year.

Honestly, I wouldn't take either of those.

I'm admittedly high on Peeke, I think he would be an excellent partner for Hughes, but not as the main piece back. For an extended Horvat though, I think the package would have to include more than a 2024 2nd.

I like Ceulmans as a prospect for sure, but I think we can get a similar level prospect with a 2023 1st elsewhere. Getting the pick in 2023 is critical in my mind, as it is a better draft, and the prospect (in theory) arrives a year earlier.

I think what the Canucks need to keep in mind is the implication of dealing Horvat for straight long term futures, and how that will impact the negotiations with EP and Kuzmenko. I'd hope for at worst, a prospect that is developed enough to be on the roster next year. I say that as we then have a better picture of what they look like at the NHL Level. I get that you may lose some upside by doing that, but you also raise the floor. Worst case is we deal Horvat for a prospect with high upside that busts, and a late first that is a role player.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Honestly, I wouldn't take either of those.

I wouldn’t either, it was just a basic example of two different pacakages, one involving an established player with limited upside and the other an unproven prospect with higher potential that is 1-2 years away. For me, I’m taking the higher potential prospect as that’s truly the only way you’re going to significantly improve, by acquiring unknown quantities before they break out. I’d rather take the chance on the prospect with top pairing potential than take the player that isn’t likely to improve past a #4/5.

 

[BCNate]

I wouldn’t either, it was just a basic example of two different pacakages, one involving an established player with limited upside and the other an unproven prospect with higher potential that is 1-2 years away. For me, I’m taking the higher potential prospect as that’s truly the only way you’re going to significantly improve, by acquiring unknown quantities before they break out. I’d rather take the chance on the prospect with top pairing potential than take the player that isn’t likely to improve past a #4/5.

I agree 100% with you here, but I think these are the B and C options. Option A is getting a young NHLer with upside, or a guy like Morrow from Carolina who can likely step in next year ( I use as an example, not a suggestion).

 

[Viqsi]

I agree 100% with you here, but I think these are the B and C options. Option A is getting a young NHLer with upside, or a guy like Morrow from Carolina who can likely step in next year ( I use as an example, not a suggestion).

If the Jackets equivalent to Option A would be Jiricek (and given that you're talking about Morrow, I suspect it is), then I advise you to give up on that dream before it dies and takes you with it.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

If the Jackets equivalent to Option A would be Jiricek (and given that you're talking about Morrow, I suspect it is), then I advise you to give up on that dream before it dies and takes you with it.

if we're just talking about RHDs:

'young NHLer with upside' = peeke, boqvist, blankenburg (most likely peeke)

the morrow comp is pretty straightforward to ceulemans

 

[Viqsi]

if we're just talking about RHDs:

'young NHLer with upside' = peeke, boqvist, blankenburg (most likely peeke)

the morrow comp is pretty straightforward to ceulemans

Check the earlier posts in which Ceulemans is explicitly described as Option C.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I can smell a Roslovic+Peeke+2nd type trade coming.

roslovic + peeke + the 2024 first + a mid-tier prospect (foudy/knazko/whoever) for an extended horvat + mid/late pick would seem to make sense.

 

[BCNate]

If the Jackets equivalent to Option A would be Jiricek (and given that you're talking about Morrow, I suspect it is), then I advise you to give up on that dream before it dies and takes you with it.

0% chance that anyone that understands hockey asks for Jiricek. Likewise anyone who understands hockey gets there is a massive gap between Jiricek and Morrow.

Don't omit this either "( I use as an example, not a suggestion)". I'm not claiming Carolina would make that deal.

 

[Viqsi]

0% chance that anyone that understands hockey asks for Jiricek. Likewise anyone who understands hockey gets there is a massive gap between Jiricek and Morrow.

Don't omit this either "( I use as an example, not a suggestion)". I'm not claiming Carolina would make that deal.

Okay. Fair enough.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Check the earlier posts in which Ceulemans is explicitly described as Option C.

first: check earlier posts??? ewww

second: why would ceulemans be a tier below morrow? they're uncannily similar as prospects

	Morrow	Ceulemans
Size	6'2 195	6'2 198
Shoots	RH	RH
Drafted	40th OA	25th OA
Draft Year	2021	2021
League	NCAA	NCAA

morrow's put up more points over the last two seasons (46 in 53 GP to Ceulemans' 34 in 49 GP) but my view is that team quality is an equalizer there (UMass won 22 games last year, Wisconsin only won 10).

morrow had an easier adjustment to the NCAA game, but ceulemans has (slightly) higher draft pedigree -- and has been equally good after the initial adjustment his freshman year, on a team that is way worse.

IMO if you asked 10 scouts which guy they like better as a prospect, you'd probably get fairly evenly split opinions.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

If we think we're getting someone like Schneider for a rental Horvat, then he won't be traded.

IE. were not getting a player like Schneider for Horvat. Full Stop.

So you’re telling me Schneider is worth a 1st + A prospect + a young roster player? Because that is Horvat’s value as a rental.