Rumor: Dhaliwal - Canucks will now take best offer for Horvat

[Face Of Bear]

I see the following events unfolding:
1) Canucks ask to trade Horvat is way too high- teams aren't biting
2) Horvat production starts to slow
3) Trade offers get tighter
4) Horvat panic signs the Canucks best offer to secure a contract before his production reverts to the mean
5) Horvat plays average/on a steady decline for 8 years as the Canucks go through 2-3 more rebuilds

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

So you’re telling me Schneider is worth a 1st + A prospect + a young roster player? Because that is Horvat’s value as a rental.

No Schneider isn't, and as has been explained over and over, Schneider is far too valuable to trade for a player they don't really need.

No Horvat is not worth that, rentals never get that much.

 

[BelovedIsles]

So let me just respond....Do we need another Center? Answer - NO, Do you really want to trade our 1st rounder in 2023 - we haven't had a 1st rounder in the past 3 years. Our system sucks and this draft is one of the deepest in years? Answer - NO

Hovat just turned down Van's latest offer which was mentioned to be just under 8M per. Do you really want to pay him over 8M per year? For a guy who's best year was 61 points? who in his contract year is playing over his head shooting at over 21% pct? He's a career 13% pct shooter.

Van has no leverage with teams at all. Everyone knows he's not resigning with Van. Why are you giving them a big package and then you are at his mercy regarding the cost of his new contract. Hovat would have the Isles by the balls knowing all we gave up we have to sign him and can't let him walk

It's a stupid move. We re not 1 player away from the cup, let alone another center!

Enables Nelson to move to Barzal's wing. Nelson has played wing. Adding a 60+ pt top-6'er, and someone who relishes on the PP, would improve the overall skill of this group. Would I prefer a 90 pt winger, sure, but none are available and NYI's window is now. I've already accepted that NYI have a bottom 3rd prospect pool and most likely will until they retool/rebuild. To each his own.

Dufour, a late first, and Beau for a signed Horvat is fair.

 

[StephenPeat]

IMO its down to 4 serious teams for Horvat. Canucks can retain if needed for cap purposes.

To CBJ for:
Cuelemens, 1st 2024, Roslovic ( cap purposes), 2nd 2023

To Boston for:
1st 2023, 2nd 2024, Lysell

To Washington for:
1st 2023
Mcmichael
Chesley

To Colorado for:

1st 2023
3rd 2024
Newhook

Haha you son of a bitch I just tore an abdominal muscle laughing so hard and I don’t have many abdominal muscles to tear.

Suffice it to say WashIngton isn’t going to do that. From Wsh you’d probably get a 1st and a small add or Mantha and a small add. You’re not getting the equivalent of two 1sts + for Bo Horvat. Stop dreaming.

 

[Glorydays22]

Enables Nelson to move to Barzal's wing. Nelson has played wing. Adding a 60+ pt top-6'er, and someone who relishes on the PP, would improve the overall skill of this group. Would I prefer a 90 pt winger, sure, but none are available and NYI's window is now. I've already accepted that NYI have a bottom 3rd prospect pool and most likely will until they retool/rebuild. To each his own.

Dufour, a late first, and Beau for a signed Horvat is fair.

So let me understand this.....You are going to take your best offensive player, your "franchise player" and move him to wing in which he's never played before? Hmm...That's not going to fly with Brazal, nor do I think thats a smart move.

You say adding a 60+ top-6er to our team i.e Horvat, correct? Have you seen Horvat's career stats? He has reached 61 pts.....a grand total of 1 TIME.....hes two best previous are 53 and 52. And you want pay him 8M for what 6 to 8 years??

You say we are giving up a late 1st rounder. Hate to tell you, we are at best a middle of the road team with or without him. This year we will be fighting, fighting for the last wildcard spot. So that's not a late first rounder.

I think isles fan need to just come back to reality. We won't win the cup this year or next. We have need to bring in younger faster players. In 2 years, we get rid of older players, a lot of dead weigh contract in Martin, Clutterbuck, Parise, Bailey...and if you want you don't have to re-sign Beauvillier. If you keep trading whatever young players we have and picks. You don't have anyone to fill these spots...

 

[BelovedIsles]

So let me understand this.....You are going to take your best offensive player, your "franchise player" and move him to wing in which he's never played before? Hmm...That's not going to fly with Brazal, nor do I think thats a smart move.

You say adding a 60+ top-6er to our team i.e Horvat, correct? Have you seen Horvat's career stats? He has reached 61 pts.....a grand total of 1 TIME.....hes two best previous are 53 and 52. And you want pay him 8M for what 6 to 8 years??

You say we are giving up a late 1st rounder. Hate to tell you, we are at best a middle of the road team with or without him. This year we will be fighting, fighting for the last wildcard spot. So that's not a late first rounder.

I think isles fan need to just come back to reality. We won't win the cup this year or next. We have need to bring in younger faster players. In 2 years, we get rid of older players, a lot of dead weigh contract in Martin, Clutterbuck, Parise, Bailey...and if you want you don't have to re-sign Beauvillier. If you keep trading whatever young players we have and picks. You don't have anyone to fill these spots...

I move Nelson to wing, NOT Barzal. Nelson has played wing early in his career, I move Nelson up with Barzal; they've had several shifts together this season.

Truth be told. I'd rather use the assets on Timo Meier, he's exactly what the team needs--younger, faster, goals. Haven't heard he's available.

 

[Glorydays22]

I move Nelson to wing, NOT Barzal. Nelson has played wing early in his career, I move Nelson up with Barzal; they've had several shifts together this season.

Truth be told. I'd rather use the assets on Timo Meier, he's exactly what the team needs--younger, faster, goals. Haven't heard he's available.

See now Timo would be more of a fit to be honest a fast scoring winger to go with Brazal. Again, I still want to be careful with the price we are given these teams. Timo isn't signing either with San Jose. They have tried with no success. So again, all the leverage is with the player..not the team who's aquiring him.

And just a side bar....man, I really want a 1st round pick in this upcoming draft. There are soooo many good young players coming out this year.

 

[BelovedIsles]

See now Timo would be more of a fit to be honest a fast scoring winger to go with Brazal. Again, I still want to be careful with the price we are given these teams. Timo isn't signing either with San Jose. They have tried with no success. So again, all the leverage is with the player..not the team who's aquiring him.

And just a side bar....man, I really want a 1st round pick in this upcoming draft. There are soooo many good young players coming out this year.

I read this every year. I'm firmly locked into the win-now mode. The alternative is to continue peddling out a mediocre team until they really fall off/age out. I personally don't want to see another season of mediocrity; been too many for me (or straight up losing seasons), and I never had the pleasure of seeing the 'glory days.'

 

[Glorydays22]

I read this every year. I'm firmly locked into the win-now mode. The alternative is to continue peddling out a mediocre team until they really fall off/age out. I personally don't want to see another season of mediocrity; been too many for me (or straight up losing seasons), and I never had the pleasure of seeing the 'glory days.'

The glorydays of the 4 in a row was amazing. I know it was a different time but that club was built through the draft. Only a very few were from trade (Butch) or Free agency.

At some point we need to develop young players. We can't just abandon the farm system

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Haha you son of a bitch I just tore an abdominal muscle laughing so hard and I don’t have many abdominal muscles to tear.

Suffice it to say WashIngton isn’t going to do that. From Wsh you’d probably get a 1st and a small add or Mantha and a small add. You’re not getting the equivalent of two 1sts + for Bo Horvat. Stop dreaming.

WHAT You’re the one making people laugh lmaooooo.

Mantha+small add for Bo Horvat!? Bahahahaha

 

[MadeUpName]

0% chance that anyone that understands hockey asks for Jiricek. Likewise anyone who understands hockey gets there is a massive gap between Jiricek and Morrow.

Don't omit this either "( I use as an example, not a suggestion)". I'm not claiming Carolina would make that deal.

Prospects like Jiricek never, ever, ever get traded for rentals

Prospects like Morrow just never get traded for rentals

The difference isn't functional. Teams don't trade their grade A+ (Jiricek) or A- (Morrow) prospects for 40 games of anybody.

Claude Giroux was a superior piece to Horvat and he was traded for a 2024 1st + 2023 3rd + Owen Tippett (maybe worth a 3rd). That is what Vancouver is looking at.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Prospects like Jiricek never, ever, ever get traded for rentals

Prospects like Morrow just never get traded for rentals

The difference isn't functional. Teams don't trade their grade A+ (Jiricek) or A- (Morrow) prospects for 40 games of anybody.

Claude Giroux was a superior piece to Horvat and he was traded for a 2024 1st + 2023 3rd + Owen Tippett (maybe worth a 3rd). That is what Vancouver is looking at.

I consider Morrow a B+ at best.

Giroux at the time of trade was inferior to Bo. He became a winger instead of centre, older and not producing as well. And he had a full NMC.

I 100% agree that Jiricek would not be available for a Rental, or even a signed Bo. Most of us fans have been saying Ceulmans as the RHD prospect from CBJ. For Carolina, if the cost was Morrow + 1st for Bo and they don't do it, that's fine. But how long will ownership sit back and watch Management do nothing and keep losing in the playoffs? It's been 5 years and they are starting to waste one of the best cares in the league. You can't rely on "playoffs, anything can happen" forever.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Haha you son of a bitch I just tore an abdominal muscle laughing so hard and I don’t have many abdominal muscles to tear.

Suffice it to say WashIngton isn’t going to do that. From Wsh you’d probably get a 1st and a small add or Mantha and a small add. You’re not getting the equivalent of two 1sts + for Bo Horvat. Stop dreaming.

I guess no trade then to Washington, Mantha and a small add, now that's f***in funny. Every other team in the league would beat that offer.

 

[BoogerSugar]

Prospects like Jiricek never, ever, ever get traded for rentals

Prospects like Morrow just never get traded for rentals

The difference isn't functional. Teams don't trade their grade A+ (Jiricek) or A- (Morrow) prospects for 40 games of anybody.

Claude Giroux was a superior piece to Horvat and he was traded for a 2024 1st + 2023 3rd + Owen Tippett (maybe worth a 3rd). That is what Vancouver is looking at.

Well maybe that’s the problem with the NHL. Teams overvalue their top prospects so hard and the vast majority of them fizzle out, become tweeners and non franchise cornerstone type of players. They become the Bo Horvats and *insert any other solid deadline trade piece here* of the world.

The NHL has a severe problem with overrating their prospects imo. That’s why only a handful of teams keep winning the Stanley Cup. You need to just go for it, stack up your team in years that you are contending (unless you’ve been real lucky like the COL and TBL of the world and essentially just consistently hit home runs).

It’s one of the only sports where youth have so much trade potential. In the NBA teams mortgage YEARS of their franchises to pick up superstar players. Very much a “this guy has proved he can dominate the sport” mindset.

Anyways I digress, just something I find frustrating about the NHL. Half of these highly touted prospects end up on waivers and everyone goes “what happened?!”

 

[MadeUpName]

I consider Morrow a B+ at best.

Giroux at the time of trade was inferior to Bo. He became a winger instead of centre, older and not producing as well. And he had a full NMC.

I 100% agree that Jiricek would not be available for a Rental, or even a signed Bo. Most of us fans have been saying Ceulmans as the RHD prospect from CBJ. For Carolina, if the cost was Morrow + 1st for Bo and they don't do it, that's fine. But how long will ownership sit back and watch Management do nothing and keep losing in the playoffs? It's been 5 years and they are starting to waste one of the best cares in the league. You can't rely on "playoffs, anything can happen" forever.

You keep bringing up this narrative that Carolina won't succeed in the Playoffs without Horvat as if Horvat has ever won anything.

Carolina played about as many Playoff games last year alone as Horvat has played in his entire NHL career.

Carolina isn't trading a 1st in the deepest draft since 2015 plus their best prospect for any rental. Because Carolina is going to compete for the next decade rather than just this year. They are simultaneously competing better than Vancouver is as well as building out the future better than Vancouver is.

 

[Viqsi]

Well maybe that’s the problem with the NHL. Teams overvalue their top prospects so hard and the vast majority of them fizzle out, become tweeners and non franchise cornerstone type of players. They become the Bo Horvats and *insert any other solid deadline trade piece here* of the world.

The NHL has a severe problem with overrating their prospects imo. That’s why only a handful of teams keep winning the Stanley Cup. You need to just go for it, stack up your team in years that you are contending (unless you’ve been real lucky like the COL and TBL of the world and essentially just consistently hit home runs).

It’s one of the only sports where youth have so much trade potential. In the NBA teams mortgage YEARS of their franchises to pick up superstar players. Very much a “this guy has proved he can dominate the sport” mindset.

Anyways I digress, just something I find frustrating about the NHL. Half of these highly touted prospects end up on waivers and everyone goes “what happened?!”

The NBA does that because in the NBA, one single superstar can be literally the sole difference between a contender and a nobody. That's not the case in the NHL.

 

[MadeUpName]

Well maybe that’s the problem with the NHL. Teams overvalue their top prospects so hard and the vast majority of them fizzle out, become tweeners and non franchise cornerstone type of players. They become the Bo Horvats and *insert any other solid deadline trade piece here* of the world.

The NHL has a severe problem with overrating their prospects imo. That’s why only a handful of teams keep winning the Stanley Cup. You need to just go for it, stack up your team in years that you are contending (unless you’ve been real lucky like the COL and TBL of the world and essentially just consistently hit home runs).

It’s one of the only sports where youth have so much trade potential. In the NBA teams mortgage YEARS of their franchises to pick up superstar players. Very much a “this guy has proved he can dominate the sport” mindset.

Anyways I digress, just something I find frustrating about the NHL. Half of these highly touted prospects end up on waivers and everyone goes “what happened?!”

NBA franchises mortgaging "YEARS" of their franchise to pick up superstar players has absolute ZERO percent to do with a rental Horvat as he is neither a superstar nor a long-term, franchise-altering piece.

 

[Peter Griffin]

The NBA does that because in the NBA, one single superstar can be literally the sole difference between a contender and a nobody. That's not the case in the NHL.

The hard cap in the NHL is also a big factor in why teams are loathe to trade their top prospects as those high level players on ELC's is a huge boost for many teams.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

You keep bringing up this narrative that Carolina won't succeed in the Playoffs without Horvat as if Horvat has ever won anything.

Carolina played about as many Playoff games last year alone as Horvat has played in his entire NHL career.

Carolina isn't trading a 1st in the deepest draft since 2015 plus their best prospect for any rental. Because Carolina is going to compete for the next decade rather than just this year. They are simultaneously competing better than Vancouver is as well as building out the future better than Vancouver is.

Horvat has produced well in all his playoff games and shown he has that extra gear. If Caroline stands pat because they are afraid of losing a late 1st, then they will be betting on a miracle happening to win the cup. The goal every year is to win, and a GM that has a team like Carolina and doesn't go all on is a poorly run team.

 

[StephenPeat]

I guess no trade then to Washington, Mantha and a small add, now that's f***in funny. Every other team in the league would beat that offer.

Let them. I want no part of a Horvat Rental and even less part of any new contract. Washington should have no interest in Horvat at anywhere near the suggested price (which is outright laughable considering the Canucks are on record as effectively taking the best offer they can get, trust it will be much less than McMichael/Chesley/1st that’s just outright F’ing stupid).

 

[Groo]

Let them. I want no part of a Horvat Rental and even less part of any new contract. Washington should have no interest in Horvat at anywhere near the suggested price (which is outright laughable considering the Canucks are on record as effectively taking the best offer they can get, trust it will be much less than McMichael/Chesley/1st that’s just outright F’ing stupid).

Yeah that's just crazy talk

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Let them. I want no part of a Horvat Rental and even less part of any new contract. Washington should have no interest in Horvat at anywhere near the suggested price (which is outright laughable considering the Canucks are on record as effectively taking the best offer they can get, trust it will be much less than McMichael/Chesley/1st that’s just outright F’ing stupid).

Trust me when I say no sane Canucks fan believes we will get that for Horvat. There is no suggested price and a few overzealous moron Canucks fans certainly don't speak for everyone or even the GM.

We have no idea what the Canucks want or have asked for.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Horvat has produced well in all his playoff games and shown he has that extra gear. If Caroline stands pat because they are afraid of losing a late 1st, then they will be betting on a miracle happening to win the cup. The goal every year is to win, and a GM that has a team like Carolina and doesn't go all on is a poorly run team.

Making a big move in-season is not a prerequisite to winning at the highest level. The bulk of Cup champs attacked the middle to lower half of the roster in quality.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
12-13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz, Lovejoy
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
20-21	Tampa	Savard
21-22	Colorado	Manson, Lehkonen

Bold denotes 1st for a rental.
Italics denotes hockey trades (player for player).

I'm expecting that they feel pressure and buckle at the deadline at some point. However, watch it be the year that they don't do much of anything that they break through (if they're meant to break through).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Making a big move in-season is not a prerequisite to winning at the highest level. The bulk of Cup champs attacked the middle to lower half of the roster in quality.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
12-13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz, Lovejoy
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
20-21	Tampa	Savard
21-22	Colorado	Manson, Lehkonen

Bold denotes 1st for a rental.
Italics denotes hockey trades (player for player).

I'm expecting that they feel pressure and buckle at the deadline at some point. However, watch it be the year that they don't do much of anything that they break through (if they're meant to break through).

Good analysis. I just find it amusing that a particular Canucks fan keeps telling Canes fans what it takes to win a cup and how to run an NHL team well.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

To sum up:

1. Other teams think Horvat isn’t worth much beyond late 1st + small add

2. Nucks want three pieces

3. Nucks mgmt are morons by (again) not allowing teams to talk extension beforehand

4. No one can agree on anything

Tune in tomorrow for another edition of “nothing is happening”