Rumor: Dhaliwal - Canucks will now take best offer for Horvat

[Petey But Really Jim]

The funny thing about HFboard poster is how they think rentals are all low cost and don't require much to get while not looking at other factors like skill level, age, leadership qualities etc. A team that is on cusp of winning the cup will sacrifice lots of future to get the cup even if it means trading 1st and blue chip prospects

not all sports franchises are run with the goal of winning championships, and their fans can largely get conditioned to it without even realizing that they’re projecting their, ummm, “otherwise ambitioned” principles

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Thanks. I was trying to discern the dollar range associated with that. Are we talking $7M for 8 years? $6.5M? $7.5M, $8.0M? or what?

Probably wants around 64-70m. His agent has probably told him he won't get that on a 7 year deal. 8 is his only option.

I use the number cause our last offer was just shy of 8m aav apparently. He could have said no cause he wants out as well.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Probably wants around 64-70m. His agent has probably told him he won't get that on a 7 year deal. 8 is his only option.

I use the number cause our last offer was just shy of 8m aav apparently. He could have said no cause he wants out as well.

Thanks.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Not sure what your definition of " Huge haul" is but if Horvat is to be traded, the expected return is

top prospect
1st round pick
mid pick between 2nd-4thrnd

No it's really not, we went over this with Miller and he was signed for another year, you really got stop with this, whoever we trade Horvat too is not gonna give us a top prospect. Rentals don't get top prospects, you heard this last year, why don't you understand?

 

[Viqsi]

No it's really not, we went over this with Miller and he was signed for another year, you really got stop with this, whoever we trade Horvat too is not gonna give us a top prospect. Rentals don't get top prospects, you heard this last year, why don't you understand?

I think that package is presumed to be a "long term core" one. Also it depends on what one finds acceptable as "top prospect." The Jackets will discuss Ceulemans, for example (and that poster did suggest Ceulemans as an applicable prospect in an earlier post), but someone like Jiricek is a non-starter.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The funny thing about HFboard poster is how they think rentals are all low cost and don't require much to get while not looking at other factors like skill level, age, leadership qualities etc. A team that is on cusp of winning the cup will sacrifice lots of future to get the cup even if it means trading 1st and blue chip prospects

Yah we heard this with Miller last year, funny, we didn't get that offer of a 1st and blue chipper.....

I think that package is presumed to be a "long term core" one. Also it depends on what one finds acceptable as "top prospect." The Jackets will discuss Ceulemans, for example (and that poster did suggest Ceulemans as an applicable prospect in an earlier post), but someone like Jiricek is a non-starter.

Exactly, your top prospect is not available. As is the case with most teams, in most trades.

Nobody wants to make the same mistake the Caps did with Forsberg.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Just for funsies. From Buffalo.
Mittelstadt
Ostlund
23 1st (top 10) protected or 2 23 2nds.

Horvat signed for 7x8

Would you replace the 2 2023 3rds with the 2024 1st?

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Would you replace the 2 2023 3rds with the 2024 1st?

He's saying 1st or 2 2nds. Not all 3 picks.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Just for funsies. From Buffalo.
Mittelstadt
Ostlund
23 1st (top 10) protected or 2 23 2nds.

Horvat signed for 7x8

If Horvat comes signed, I'd say it's the 1st AND 2 2nds. If he comes unsigned, no 2nds involved and Buffalo takes their chances. Also that 1st is looking like it is highly likely to be top 10 at this point. Not sure we want it pushing to 2024. Though with 2 2nds in 2023 it is something that is plausible.

 

[Seachd]

You implied that he would

Um, no.

 

[Body Checker]

I bet the Rangers make this happen

 

[Alluckks]

Until there is an explicit report that the Canucks are allowing Horvat and the acquiring team to talk extension as a part of the trade, and that there is interest in Horvat's party to do that, the assumption really has to be that it is just a regular trade with no extension talks involved.

Reports have been that Canucks are NOT letting teams talk extension with Horvat in advance.

Report from Friedman is that Horvat is interested in seeing what he can be offered in free agency (Friedman specifically mentioned that Horvat wanted to see if there is a can't say no to that offer).

Canucks did not let teams discuss extension with JT Miller when we went through many months of that charade.

Copp went for 2 conditional 2nds and a B prospect.

2 way gritty player that can score, but Horvat is better at scoring. Remove the conditions.

1st, 2nd, B prospect

 

[BelovedIsles]

Hell NO from the isles!!!

You gotta give to get. No Raty, and that pick will be post #15; I'm okay with that. This trade would be with the understanding of a long-term extension.

 

[Nucker42]

Until there is an explicit report that the Canucks are allowing Horvat and the acquiring team to talk extension as a part of the trade, and that there is interest in Horvat's party to do that, the assumption really has to be that it is just a regular trade with no extension talks involved.

Reports have been that Canucks are NOT letting teams talk extension with Horvat in advance.

Report from Friedman is that Horvat is interested in seeing what he can be offered in free agency (Friedman specifically mentioned that Horvat wanted to see if there is a can't say no to that offer).

Canucks did not let teams discuss extension with JT Miller when we went through many months of that charade.

Copp went for 2 conditional 2nds and a B prospect.

2 way gritty player that can score, but Horvat is better at scoring. Remove the conditions.

1st, 2nd, B prospect

Horvat as a rental, I think that’s a pretty fair deal. I do think with the cap being so tight for so many teams, I can see the Canucks taking a contract back to lighten the cap load. Or retain.

If I’m right, I think that would up his value.

I think it’s a 1st, 2nd, A prospect and cap dump or retention

 

[BelovedIsles]

If were taking a capdump back and only getting a b prospect and a low 1st then the isles are adding here.

Dufour is a B+ prospect, and this may be a rental. If he comes with an extension, then NYI will have to up the ante. Beau is more than a cap dump, he may not be a scorer, but he's a solid middle-6 forward. Again, Wahlstrom could be in play as well.

 

[Alluckks]

Horvat as a rental, I think that’s a pretty fair deal. I do think with the cap being so tight for so many teams, I can see the Canucks taking a contract back to lighten the cap load. Or retain.

If I’m right, I think that would up his value.

I think it’s a 1st, 2nd, A prospect and cap dump or retention

Teams have been crazy reluctant to deal any A prospects that they have for years now, only heightened with the cap stuff. Bettman just said 1 mil next year too. If teams have dealt a top prospect it is for a guy with term. Also no 1st.

 

[wintersej]

Boston would obviously have zero interest in Horvat as a rental.

But the “1st, 2nd, B prospect” range mentioned above is in line with historical returns.

Horvat as a rental, I think that’s a pretty fair deal. I do think with the cap being so tight for so many teams, I can see the Canucks taking a contract back to lighten the cap load. Or retain.

If I’m right, I think that would up his value.

I think it’s a 1st, 2nd, A prospect and cap dump or retention

See, every team in on it (as a rental) would need retention. It’s not normal times. I don’t think the Canucks get extra for retaining because of that. it’s expected.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Dufour is a B+ prospect, and this may be a rental. If he comes with an extension, then NYI will have to up the ante. Beau is more than a cap dump, he may not be a scorer, but he's a solid middle-6 forward. Again, Wahlstrom could be in play as well.

Neither are of need, we are far too loaded with middle sixers as is, so realistically yah he would be a cap dump to us, and Wahlstrom would be a redundant player as well, no thanks.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Neither are of need, we are far too loaded with middle sixers as is, so realistically yah he would be a cap dump to us, and Wahlstrom would be a redundant player as well, no thanks.

What about Sam Bolduc (probably NYI's best D prospect), Sebastian Aho, or Robin Salo; you do need help on the blueline (and that's an understatement).

 

[Glorydays22]

You gotta give to get. No Raty, and that pick will be post #15; I'm okay with that. This trade would be with the understanding of a long-term extension

So let me just respond....Do we need another Center? Answer - NO, Do you really want to trade our 1st rounder in 2023 - we haven't had a 1st rounder in the past 3 years. Our system sucks and this draft is one of the deepest in years? Answer - NO

Hovat just turned down Van's latest offer which was mentioned to be just under 8M per. Do you really want to pay him over 8M per year? For a guy who's best year was 61 points? who in his contract year is playing over his head shooting at over 21% pct? He's a career 13% pct shooter.

Van has no leverage with teams at all. Everyone knows he's not resigning with Van. Why are you giving them a big package and then you are at his mercy regarding the cost of his new contract. Hovat would have the Isles by the balls knowing all we gave up we have to sign him and can't let him walk

It's a stupid move. We re not 1 player away from the cup, let alone another center!

 

[Glorydays22]

Dufour is a B+ prospect, and this may be a rental. If he comes with an extension, then NYI will have to up the ante. Beau is more than a cap dump, he may not be a scorer, but he's a solid middle-6 forward. Again, Wahlstrom could be in play as well.

Really?? No way we would include Wahlstrom. Damn, want not just give Van Raty, Wally, Dufour and 2 1st rounders while you're at it.

 

[ranchand]

If MTL thinks they can sign him long term

2023 1st (fla)
Kidney
Barron

Ottawa
Greig
1st

WPG
Lucious
Appleton
1st

Maybe im crazy.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

He's saying 1st or 2 2nds. Not all 3 picks.

I know, the 2 seconds were conditional. I was asking if he would change the condition to 1st in 23rd or (if it's lottery) 1sts in 24.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I bet the Rangers make this happen

Canucks no doubt don’t budge unless Schneider is involved. Ranger fans have already stated it’s a no go. No deal to be made here.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

So let me just respond....Do we need another Center? Answer - NO, Do you really want to trade our 1st rounder in 2023 - we haven't had a 1st rounder in the past 3 years. Our system sucks and this draft is one of the deepest in years? Answer - NO

Hovat just turned down Van's latest offer which was mentioned to be just under 8M per. Do you really want to pay him over 8M per year? For a guy who's best year was 61 points? who in his contract year is playing over his head shooting at over 21% pct? He's a career 13% pct shooter.

Van has no leverage with teams at all. Everyone knows he's not resigning with Van. Why are you giving them a big package and then you are at his mercy regarding the cost of his new contract. Hovat would have the Isles by the balls knowing all we gave up we have to sign him and can't let him walk

It's a stupid move. We re not 1 player away from the cup, let alone another center!

No leverage at all? The leverage is teams wanting him and creating a bidding war. That’s all the leverage you need. All you need to do is have two teams in the same conference/division have interest and you play them back and forth knowing whoever adds him just increased their chances of winning in the Playoffs.