Rumor: Dhaliwal - Canucks will now take best offer for Horvat

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Until there is an explicit report that the Canucks are allowing Horvat and the acquiring team to talk extension as a part of the trade, and that there is interest in Horvat's party to do that, the assumption really has to be that it is just a regular trade with no extension talks involved.

Reports have been that Canucks are NOT letting teams talk extension with Horvat in advance.

Report from Friedman is that Horvat is interested in seeing what he can be offered in free agency (Friedman specifically mentioned that Horvat wanted to see if there is a can't say no to that offer).

Canucks did not let teams discuss extension with JT Miller when we went through many months of that charade.

Copp went for 2 conditional 2nds and a B prospect.

2 way gritty player that can score, but Horvat is better at scoring. Remove the conditions.

1st, 2nd, B prospect

A 1st, 2nd, B Prospect and a 5th is what he ended up netting WPG.

Horvat is worth twice what Copp got as a rental.

 

[lawrence]

Reports have been that Canucks are NOT letting teams talk extension with Horvat in advance.

where you seeing this?

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

where you seeing this?

It was reported before the recent reports that Horvats camp had been informed they will be traded. So maybe it has changed

 

[lawrence]

It was reported before the recent reports that Horvats camp had been informed they will be traded. So maybe it has changed

where's the tweet or video or link?

 

[quesosauce]

where's the tweet or video or link?

its in their own minds

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

“no. we absolutely will not explore this avenue of maximizing our return”

uhhhhh k

 

[krutovsdonut]

there would need to be a deal solidly in place for teams to be allowed to talk to horvat.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

where you seeing this?

What we're hearing about the Canucks' rejected offer to Bo Horvat and more

What we're hearing about Bo Horvat on the trade block, movement on Brock Boeser, the market for Ethan Bear and more.

theathletic.com

The club has not, to this point, granted permission to Horvat’s agent to discuss a possible extension with clubs interested in trading for Horvat. Considering the volume of expected interest in Horvat — who is a face-off specialist, power-play ace and lethal goal scorer — it’s likely such permission won’t be granted at all. That means that Horvat is likely to be dealt as a pure rental.

its in their own minds

It definitely is not

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

where's the tweet or video or link?

It got posted in this thread days ago. I'm not looking for it. I really don't care enough.

 

[lawrence]

What we're hearing about the Canucks' rejected offer to Bo Horvat and more

What we're hearing about Bo Horvat on the trade block, movement on Brock Boeser, the market for Ethan Bear and more.

theathletic.com

It definitely is not

Thanks for providing a link.

 

[Bankerguy]

A 1st, 2nd, B Prospect and a 5th is what he ended up netting WPG.

Horvat is worth twice what Copp got as a rental.

Here's the problem with that analogy.

It's only true when you have a HUGE sample size. if you have a 'number approaching infinity' of teams making the playoffs and are "buyers" and an equal number of tanking "sellers" then yes, its all relative and scalable. Player "A" is roughly twice as good as player "B" so he should return more or double etc.
But in real life, you have 16 teams making the playoffs. Only SOME of them will be aggressive buyers and only SOME of those buyers are looking for a certain player's position / type / style. So, what a player returns is hard to gauge and you cant compare it to another player fairly. What matters is how many teams bid for Horvat and how badly do they need him. When you have a small sample size you can easily get statistical "outlier" type returns. Maybe he'll return Byram + Newhook which would be amazing, or maybe he'll return Roslovic and Peeke which would be underwhelming. Cant say for certain....but what is certain is that whatever he returns IS his value. The winning bid is by definition the market for that player

 

[kcunac]

I think the Horvat vs Miller is a good debate.

Horvat is good at FOs and plays centre more consistently. Slightly better defensively (but still not good), he is more of a shooter than distributer. Part of the reason he never scored this much is he never had very good line mates, though the other part is high shooting % and contract year.

A couple months ago there could not have been any question that JTM has the higher ceiling and is a better offensive player, which would by itself probably be enough to justify a bigger contract. In my opinion this remains true, but the margin is now a bit closer. JTM is much better passer and is capable of improving those around him more than Horvat. JTM is not a good defensive player but he is a more than capable centre and a good face off man. Most of the criticism goes to his inconsistency and at times poor play and lack of effort. Keep in mind he just signed a big deal as opposed to Bo who is looking for one.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Well, apparently the Canucks are not necessarily looking for futures. They may be trying to find a c or rd who are in their 20s who can help us win now.

LeBrun rumblings: The Canucks' price for Bo Horvat, Oilers' trade targets and more

Also: With Pyotr Kochetkov breaking out, what will the Hurricanes do when veteran goalie Frederik Andersen is ready to return?

theathletic.com

My fear is this is Aquillini doubling down (again) on not wanting to rebuild.
With that said, the cap being where it is, on the precipice of going up dramatically,in a couple of years, could conceivably lead to some weird moves as teams posture for that return to normality.
If a team offers something that's a great fit it's possible that could work out. Our team's balance is terrible, but we have a lot of talent.

However in a draft year so strong, I'm not sure why the brain trust can't talk ownership into a one year re-set. Don't strip it down (we shouldn't anyway). But get a good pick, and trade Horvat and Schenn for some futures. Then earnestly try to be a good team next year.

 

[wintersej]

If the Canucks are looking to make a hockey deal, it seems like this whole thread needs to shift in focus.

 

[Fatass]

It's been speculated that the latest offer Bo turned down was for 8 years but with an AAV below $7M. I think he's probably looking for closer to $8M AAV.

Wasn’t it reported (local radio) the offer was under 50 mil? So that’s more likely only a seven year term. I’m thinking If it’s 56 mil then Bo would sign.

 

[Nucker42]

Lebrun article this morning talked of a potential signing by the acquiring team. Great news. It also says the Canucks are looking for a hockey deal because the playoffs are in sight.

So sickening from a Canucks fan perspective.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Lebrun article this morning talked of a potential signing by the acquiring team. Great news. It also says the Canucks are looking for a hockey deal because the playoffs are in sight.

So sickening from a Canucks fan perspective.

FA will never learn

 

[kdog82]

I know people on here keep saying Bruins don't need Horvat, at least until the off-season when/if becomes a UFA and if Krejci or Bergeron do not return, but I think the Bruins do need him now. You can never have enough ready/top talent during a potential cup run.

1st + Lysell + Reilly + Smith
for
Horvat (Bruins sign him to an extension)

 

[Peter Griffin]

I know people on here keep saying Bruins don't need Horvat, at least until the off-season when/if becomes a UFA and if Krejci or Bergeron do not return, but I think the Bruins do need him now. You can never have enough ready/top talent during a potential cup run.

1st + Lysell + Reilly + Smith
for
Horvat (Bruins sign him to an extension)

Horvat signed to an extension is worth more than Lysell and a late 1st, especially considering you're also dumping two contracts. Lysell and 1st is the price without an extension and no cap dumps.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Canucks no doubt don’t budge unless Schneider is involved. Ranger fans have already stated it’s a no go. No deal to be made here.

If we think we're getting someone like Schneider for a rental Horvat, then he won't be traded.

IE. were not getting a player like Schneider for Horvat. Full Stop.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Horvat signed to an extension is worth more than Lysell and a late 1st, especially considering you're also dumping two contracts. Lysell and 1st is the price without an extension and no cap dumps.

I don't think a 1st AND Lysell would be included on a rental; even of Horvat's calibre. One or the other. If the Bruins consider him a blue-chip, and i think they do, those are not commonly included for rentals. If they don't consider him that, then he's fair game. But with Pastrnak not 100% re-signed yet; can't see them giving up that package for a rental. (even if they plan on re-signing him)

Signed, I'd have no problem with both.

The problem is more of cap space 2023 and beyond. Not sure the Bruins can add Horvat AND Pastrnak without cutting significant salary. And as we saw this season... moving cap space (even if we think the player is worth the contract) isn't easy.

That said, I'd love to figure out how to make it work. I just have trouble seeing it getting done.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

A 1st, 2nd, B Prospect and a 5th is what he ended up netting WPG.

Horvat is worth twice what Copp got as a rental.

Yah, sure if you ignore context, Copp got that in one of the weakest draft years in history. Teams were more inclined to give up 1st rounder, 2nd rounder etc. because they know how weak the draft was. This year is completely different, I think a 1st, 2nd and a b prospect is the best we're gonna get. If we trade him.

I think the Canucks don't end up trading him and push for some delusional playoff aspirations and Horvat walks in FA. I bet that that's what happens.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I don't think a 1st AND Lysell would be included on a rental; even of Horvat's calibre. One or the other. If the Bruins consider him a blue-chip, and i think they do, those are not commonly included for rentals. If they don't consider him that, then he's fair game. But with Pastrnak not 100% re-signed yet; can't see them giving up that package for a rental. (even if they plan on re-signing him)

Signed, I'd have no problem with both.

The problem is more of cap space 2023 and beyond. Not sure we can add Horvat AND Pastrnak without cutting significant salary. And as we saw this season... moving cap space (even if we think the player is worth the contract) isn't easy.

That said, I'd love to figure out how to make it work. I just have trouble seeing it getting done.

Fair enough, Lysell is probably a better prospect than they should expect along with a 1st. But the point remains, it’s not enough for a signed Horvat with cap dumps. For taking on Reilly alone you’re looking at a 2nd+.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Fair enough, Lysell is probably a better prospect than they should expect along with a 1st. But the point remains, it’s not enough for a signed Horvat with cap dumps. For taking on Reilly alone you’re looking at a 2nd+.

The problem right now, didn't the GM openly say he's not letting anyone talk to his agent?

Canucks would get an increasingly better offer if that was the case.

 

[BCNate]

Lebrun article this morning talked of a potential signing by the acquiring team. Great news. It also says the Canucks are looking for a hockey deal because the playoffs are in sight.

So sickening from a Canucks fan perspective.

Why is that sickening? A young NHL RD or C would be a hockey trade. I'd far rather get an established, known asset than a late first and prospect.