Confirmed with Link: Devils waive Cory Schneider

[Emperoreddy]

There's a non-zero chance Cory starts again but I'd hardly think it's likely at this point. It'd be either because Blackwood got hurt or Domingue bombed. And that's assuming Cory's playing well and doesn't get hurt himself in Bingo.

Domingue is most likely going to bomb. Cory will play decent in Bing, get called up. Have a few decent meaningless starts in garbage time and we will be back where we started.

 

[glenwo2]

Domingue is most likely going to bomb. Cory will play decent in Bing, get called up. Have a few decent meaningless starts in garbage time and we will be back where we started.

Our worst nightmare.....continues.

 

[jkrdevil]

Also, if you look at that chart listed earlier, from 2006-2012 the team scored more for Clemmensen, Weekes, and Hedberg than they did for Marty, so apparently it's not a new trend for this team to score less for the starter than the backup.

How often does a backup get a weaker opponent who is likely allow more goals.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Domingue is most likely going to bomb. Cory will play decent in Bing, get called up. Have a few decent meaningless starts in garbage time and we will be back where we started.

Domingue doesn't have to play lights out, he just has to do better than Cory which really isn't saying much since Cory had a GAA of 4.59 and a SV% of .852

Cory didn't play lights out the last time he was sent down for a conditioning stint and I really don't expect him to this time either. He played 8 games last year with a GAA of 3.24 and a SV% of .881

 

[guitarguyvic]

Again, this is just ignorance.

2006 shot differential for the Devils: -10
2007 shot differential for the Devils: +21
2008 shot differential for the Devils: +105

These are the WORST seasons Brodeur ever faced as a Devil. Every single year was better than these 3. Even 2011 they ended up almost +200. The shot differential with Brodeur as goalie is incredibly high - Brodeur might've faced the most favorable teammates of all time. He was a great goalie who massively benefited from having a stingy defense pretty much every year he was here.

2014 shot differential for the Devils: +110
2015 shot differential for the Devils: -510
2016 shot differential for the Devils: -346

Yes, you're absolutely right, MASSIVE influence. MASSIVE. Schneider's 3 elite years here the Devils ended up with a shot differential hugely in the toilet, but no, it was his fault.

The shot differential between 2006-2008 is comparable to what the team in front of Cory did in 2014. So was the team's GF rank. Yet the results in 2006-2008 were wildly different than in 2014. Total coincidence I'm sure.

By the way, up until this point the narrative was "Cory didn't get enough goal support". Now all of sudden we are adding the shot differential into the excuse making.

 

[Triumph]

This is what actual elite goaltending does for a team, this is incredible.

2005-2006:
GF Rank – 21
Standings Rank – 8

2006-2007:
GF Rank – 23
Standings Rank – 7

2007-2008:
GF Rank – 26
Standings Rank – 6

2008-2009:*
GF Rank – 15
Standings Rank – 5

2009-2010:
GF Rank – 19
Standings Rank – 6

In the year Marty was injured and didn't play the whole season, it was Clemmenson playing out of his mind. Still, that team ranked the highest out of all the post-Stevens/Niedermayer years for offensive output, but still didn't manage to be any higher in the standings as a result with Marty out for an extended period of time. Now here's what things looked like as Marty started to decline:

2010-2011:
GF Rank – 30
Standings Rank – 23

2011-2012:
GF Rank – 11
Standing Rank – 9

2012-2013:
GF Rank – 28
Standings Rank – 22

2013-2014:
GF Rank – 27
Standings Rank – 20

Suddenly the gap between where they rank in goals for and where they are in the standings is growing smaller. Marty was splitting time with Cory in that last season. Now here's with Cory at the helm full time:

2014-2015:
GF Rank – 28
Standings Rank – 25

2015-2016:
GF Rank – 30
Standings Rank – 20

2016-2017:
GF Rank – 28
Standings Rank – 27

2017-2018:
GF Rank – 14
Standings Rank – 15

2018-2019:
GF Rank – 29
Standings Rank – 29

With the exception of 2015-2016, the team win/loss record ranked almost exactly in line with their goals scored rank.

From 2006 to 2008 the team ranked in the bottom of the league in offensive output - comparable to what we have seen from the squads Cory has been on - yet that team finished top 10 in the standings each of those seasons. The other seasons where Marty was still playing at a high level saw similar results - the team won a lot of games despite having mediocre offense. So this is all just a coincidence? The no name D in front of Marty just happened to be a lot better than the no name D in front of Cory, that's the excuse now for why the team was able to win with crap offensive output then but not now?

Ridiculous breakdown. The team ranked 'in the bottom of the league in offensive output'? Do you know how to count? Do you know that there were 30 teams in the NHL at the time? Do you understand that there's a large difference between 21st and 30th? And that that difference was even greater when you consider how awful 30th was in those years where the Devils were bad - that the Sabres were actively tanking and probably the worst non-expansion team of all time?

Moreover, you conflate defense and goaltending. Devils' ranks in shots against, 2006-2008:

2006: 9th best
2007: 8th best
2008: 8th best

2014: best (but had to play a terrible washed up goalie half the games)
2015: 7th worst
2016: 8th best (but last in shots for by over 200)

 

[Triumph]

The shot differential between 2006-2008 is comparable to what the team in front of Cory did in 2014. So was the team's GF rank. Yet the results in 2006-2008 were wildly different than in 2014. Total coincidence I'm sure.

By the way, up until this point the narrative was "Cory didn't get enough goal support". Now all of sudden we are adding the shot differential into the excuse making.

Unbelievable.

Cory Schneider played 45 games in 2013-14. The Devils scored 85 goals in those games.

Martin Brodeur played 39 games in 2013-14. The Devils scored 104 goals in those games.

Cory Schneider was playing for one of the weakest non-expansion offenses of all time. They scored less than 2 goals per game. The tanking Buffalo Sabres scored 150 goals, which amounted to 1.8 GF/60. The Devils with Schneider in net scored 1.9 GF/60.

Martin Brodeur played with an average offense. That season, the average goals for per game was 2.67, and the offense with Brodeur in net was 2.66 goals per game.

Brodeur was the beneficiary of an inordinate amount of luck, and the Devils suffered for it.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Ridiculous breakdown. The team ranked 'in the bottom of the league in offensive output'? Do you know how to count? Do you know that there were 30 teams in the NHL at the time? Do you understand that there's a large difference between 21st and 30th? And that that difference was even greater when you consider how awful 30th was in those years where the Devils were bad - that the Sabres were actively tanking and probably the worst non-expansion team of all time?

This is just excuse making all over the place, holy shit. Of course there are variables that affect rankings from season to season but that's why we look at the pattern over time. Then you say there's a big difference between 21 and 30...yeah no shit and there's a big difference between 8 and 21 in the standings...the Devils with Marty were consistently out-ranking their offensive output by a ridiculous margin.

Moreover, you conflate defense and goaltending. Devils' ranks in shots against, 2006-2008:

2006: 9th best
2007: 8th best
2008: 8th best

2014: best (but had to play a terrible washed up goalie half the games)
2015: 7th worst
2016: 8th best (but last in shots for by over 200)

The bolded is the funniest thing I've read so far in this thread...how can you blame the team's win/loss record on the goalie who actually won more games that season???? LMAO!!

 

[guitarguyvic]

Unbelievable.

Cory Schneider played 45 games in 2013-14. The Devils scored 85 goals in those games.

Martin Brodeur played 39 games in 2013-14. The Devils scored 104 goals in those games.

Cory Schneider was playing for one of the weakest non-expansion offenses of all time. They scored less than 2 goals per game. The tanking Buffalo Sabres scored 150 goals, which amounted to 1.8 GF/60. The Devils with Schneider in net scored 1.9 GF/60.

Martin Brodeur played with an average offense. That season, the average goals for per game was 2.67, and the offense with Brodeur in net was 2.66 goals per game.

Brodeur was the beneficiary of an inordinate amount of luck, and the Devils suffered for it.

I thought the exact same thing at the time. Then I witnessed the same pattern for the next 3 years and I started to question whether it really was "luck".

 

[nugg]

No, it was Conte's decision, and we all know how great he was at the time.

Yeah, he would have probably picked Hunter Shinkaruk.

 

[billingtons ghost]

So who was the backup and who was the starter with Kinky around last year and the year before? Did they simply just score more for him as well?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I thought the exact same thing at the time. Then I witnessed the same pattern for the next 3 years and I started to question whether it really was "luck".

oh boy. Here it comes...

 

[Triumph]

I thought the exact same thing at the time. Then I witnessed the same pattern for the next 3 years and I started to question whether it really was "luck".

The same pattern? No, you pretended you saw the same pattern, and then made up a narrative around that. Brodeur got an average offense, Schneider got the 29th ranked offense. Here's what happened the next 5 seasons:

2015: Schneider GF 2.01 Kinkaid GF 2.45
2016: Schneider GF 2.07 Kinkaid GF 2.22
2017: Schneider GF 2.09 Kinkaid GF 2.28
2018: Schneider GF 2.83 Kinkaid GF 3.06
2019: Schneider GF 2.4 Kinkaid 2.8

Are the splits in favor of Kinkaid, sure, do I think Kinkaid is responsible for them, no - I think Kinkaid was started against weaker teams generally. Goalies get 2 assists a year now - there's nothing in goaltending that would suggest a .2 drop in GF/60 for a particular goaltender other than quality of opposition.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Well, he's finally gonna get out of that bank revolving door.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The same pattern? No, you pretended you saw the same pattern, and then made up a narrative around that. Brodeur got an average offense, Schneider got the 29th ranked offense.

The 21, 23, and 26 ranked GF in a 30 team league is "average offense"?????? I don't even know how to respond to that.

Here's what happened the next 5 seasons:

2015: Schneider GF 2.01 Kinkaid GF 2.45
2016: Schneider GF 2.07 Kinkaid GF 2.22
2017: Schneider GF 2.09 Kinkaid GF 2.28
2018: Schneider GF 2.83 Kinkaid GF 3.06
2019: Schneider GF 2.4 Kinkaid 2.8

Are the splits in favor of Kinkaid, sure, do I think Kinkaid is responsible for them, no - I think Kinkaid was started against weaker teams generally. Goalies get 2 assists a year now - there's nothing in goaltending that would suggest a .2 drop in GF/60 for a particular goaltender other than quality of opposition.

Kinkaid played half the games in 2018 and 2019...how on Earth could you conclude that it's a result of quality of opposition? He and Cory essentially split the season!

I don't know what specifically caused the team to give Keith more goal support but this is the very definition of a pattern. You can't just look at 6 years worth of data that shows Cory's goaltending partner (two different goalies) received more goal support and simply conclude "oh well it must have just been bad luck". There's obviously something going on there...and it's something that can't be revealed by simply staring at a save percentage stat.

Ignoring patterns that show goalies who are without debate actually elite do get more wins despite mediocre goal support and that Cory was unable to mirror such performances. Ignoring patterns that show Cory consistently underperformed relative to his partner even when they played the same amount within a given season. Ignoring patterns showing that the team scored more for some reason when those partners were in net versus when Cory was in net. That's a lot of patterns to just dismiss. I have no idea how one does that.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Congratulations to the guy who is arguing that Cory's career wasn't as good as Brodeur's. Literally everyone in the world knows that.

And if that actually happens ("God Forbid"), we know who to thank for that.

Come on now....that is an awful analogy / Example / whatever.

Call me superstitious but making statements like the above are not cool and is tempting fate.


You couldn't say that Jack loses his ability to play the game at an Elite Level or something related to the actual game of Hockey instead of pulling....THIS...image out of nowhere?

Relax. Don't get triggered by message board hypotheticals.

 

[BurntToast]

I wholeheartedly believed the team played better for Brodure the first year. That doesn’t mean he was the best goalie. Brodure’s was great at directing rebounds, stopping the play and he was HOF stick handler. He was a 3rd defenseman. You can go on The Hockey Guy’s youtube channel; about 2 years back he argued Brodure was barely a top ten goalie because for all the games played he only face 40 or more shots around 3o some odd times. Where as I feel that was a direct reflection of his ability. The team struggled to adjust to Schneider more than anything else. Additionally, Schneider is great in other areas but stick handling and rebound control were never his best features.

If Louise gets into a few games that will be a more telling sign that the team has moved on.

 

[MadDevil]

How often does a backup get a weaker opponent who is likely allow more goals.

There are any number of factors that could go into it. Maybe the backup gets easier games. Maybe the team feels they need to score more for the backup. Maybe it's because there's less of a sample size for backups. Or maybe hockey is a sport with random shit that sometimes doesn't make any sense and we shouldn't be looking too much into which goalie the team scores an extra .20 goals per game for.

 

[Triumph]

The 21, 23, and 26 ranked GF in a 30 team league is "average offense"?????? I don't even know how to respond to that.



Kinkaid played half the games in 2018 and 2019...how on Earth could you conclude that it's a result of quality of opposition? He and Cory essentially split the season!

I don't know what specifically caused the team to give Keith more goal support but this is the very definition of a pattern. You can't just look at 6 years worth of data that shows Cory's goaltending partner (two different goalies) received more goal support and simply conclude "oh well it must have just been bad luck". There's obviously something going on there...and it's something that can't be revealed by simply staring at a save percentage stat.

Ignoring patterns that show goalies who are without debate actually elite do get more wins despite mediocre goal support and that Cory was unable to mirror such performances. Ignoring patterns that show Cory consistently underperformed relative to his partner even when they played the same amount within a given season. Ignoring patterns showing that the team scored more for some reason when those partners were in net versus when Cory was in net. That's a lot of patterns to just dismiss. I have no idea how one does that.

Think about what you know about hockey. How often does the goalie touch the puck before a goal is scored? Not even handling the puck - just making a save. Anything a goalie could do to affect the game. Do you honestly think that is 15 goals a season? It just isn't that often that that happens, and it's less often that it would be even impactful - how much does a goalie affect, say, a power play? The goalie just doesn't touch the puck that often before a goal is scored. It cannot be the goalie who is responsible for that difference.

 

[Eggtimer]

Schneider played awsome for us for a few years.
Unfortunately the team in front of him was garbage thanks to Lou and Conte.
Essentially Schneider was wasted and instead of drafting in the 1-5 spot we drafted 10+ and was counter productive if you look at it that way.(which is very depressing )

I posted at the time of the trade and shortly after that although I thought Schneider was a stud , he was getting wasted and his age did not fit the teams timeline to contend and just got us crappy draft positioning .

Could of been worse. I wanted the Devils to draft Nichushkin at 9 . But then again I wanted Rantanen over Zacha so I am batting .500 there . Stupid Conte and Lou drafted the big C (Zacha ) because our team had zero centre depth - Zajac was our #1 but got hurt in the off-season (if I remember correctly ) Lou / Conte thought they needed the most nhl ready pick and Zacha was it . I love Zacha but ya.... Barzal Rantanen Boeser etc taken after Zacha still sucks.
That and Tendenby (spelling ?) or was it Josefson was taken ahead of Carlson... a NJ native Dman .... passed on for no knows what reason when we needed D the most too.

 

[BurntToast]

The easy conclusion is Schneider is one of the worst stick handling goalies. The Devils are lucky if he doesn’t score on himself. Furthermore, he isn’t mobile. When you combine the two, it makes it harder to break out of the zone and drive up the ice.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Think about what you know about hockey. How often does the goalie touch the puck before a goal is scored? Not even handling the puck - just making a save. Anything a goalie could do to affect the game. Do you honestly think that is 15 goals a season? It just isn't that often that that happens, and it's less often that it would be even impactful - how much does a goalie affect, say, a power play? The goalie just doesn't touch the puck that often before a goal is scored. It cannot be the goalie who is responsible for that difference.

Perhaps it’s just not something all that quantifiable or easily observable... in-game situations that develop as a result of how he plays, the types of goals he lets in or the timing that affect the team psychologically, maybe the team just doesn’t like him...who the hell knows. Any one of those things is more believable than dismissing these years long patterns as pure randomness not at all reflective of the player himself.

 

[Triumph]

The easy conclusion is Schneider is one of the worst stick handling goalies. The Devils are lucky if he doesn’t score on himself. Furthermore, he isn’t mobile. When you combine the two, it makes it harder to break out of the zone and drive up the ice.

This is simple stuff. Keith Kinkaid has 3 career assists. 3 times in his career he was the 3rd to last (or sooner) player to touch the puck before a goal is scored. Schneider has 2 assists over the same stretch. How many 3rd or 4th assists do you think he has, and how different do you think it is than Schneider? The implication is that it's 10-20 times a season.

 

[ScottyK]

Cory better get his shit together in the AHL or he's going to be living in a VAN down by the RIVER

 

[njdevils1982]

I wholeheartedly believed the team played better for Brodure the first year. That doesn’t mean he was the best goalie. Brodure’s was great at directing rebounds, stopping the play and he was HOF stick handler. He was a 3rd defenseman. You can go on The Hockey Guy’s youtube channel; about 2 years back he argued Brodure was barely a top ten goalie because for all the games played he only face 40 or more shots around 3o some odd times. Where as I feel that was a direct reflection of his ability. The team struggled to adjust to Schneider more than anything else. Additionally, Schneider is great in other areas but stick handling and rebound control were never his best features.

If Louise gets into a few games that will be a more telling sign that the team has moved on.

should i call the paramedics?

are you having a seizure?

do you smell burnt toast?