GDT: Devils vs. Ducks - 1:00 PM - MSG+

[bobilly45]

Scoring chance is so freaking subjective. Technically every shot on goal is a scoring chance, so it's a matter of grading them to seperate the crest-killers from actual dangerous chances. Ten people could probably look at the same game and come up with ten different totals.

That stat should be kept by ex nhl goalies, or goalies in general. Theres the standard weak/bad ones ,assuming no screen or deflection,(shortside,5 and 6 hole(under arms), at yous (shot at you and you miss it)). Deflections/screens are not on the goalie, nor is a one timer give and go across the net. Breakaways and odd man breaks, while nice to get a save, are not on the goalie as that's the teams job to prevent those situations.

I think hynes has f***ed up the goalie situation.... by basically benching cory for kk, it regressed Cory's play.... by benching kk for blackwood.... it regressed kks play. If goalies (both starters) are taken out and not played for a while they have no rythm, which tends to temporarily regress a goalie as they lose a feel for the game (practice isnt close to the same). I also think blackwood will negatively be affected by this as he was never ment to play this many games.... he has never played this many in a short span (ahl games are mostly on weekends), so it's no surprise hes "wearing down".

 

[Wingman77]

I don't think he even wants to coach anymore, but, maybe he changes his mind

It is understandable that Hynes did go with somebody he had worked with and trusted in Nasreddine over Stevens, but it was a shame at the time and also in hindsight that something couldn't be worked out between both sides to have him around.

 

[Bleedred]

Definitely think we need to see a few more to judge MB29. A stretch like this happens after an unsustainably good start. @Bleedred and myself call it a market correction. Evening out of the percentages.

This really needs to be emphasized.

Market corrections, the evening out of the percentages, these happen at EVERY position, not just the goalie position.

Remember all the 2 goal games Palmieri had to start the year? He had 7 goals in his first 4 games, shooting 38.9%. He had 9 goals in his first 9 games shooting 30%. He's since had 13 goals in the next 39 games and is shooting 14% on the season. So after having 7 goals on his first 18 shots and 9 goals on his first 30 shots, he's shooting at 10%-10.5% or so since the first 4-9 games of the season.

These are very common in short sample sizes, much like Blackwood's first 5 games of .963% goalie-ing.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Which one of you was the guy walking through the hallway after the game screaming at the top of his lungs to "fire Hynes and not accept mediocrity"?

 

[Bleedred]

That stat should be kept by ex nhl goalies, or goalies in general. Theres the standard weak/bad ones ,assuming no screen or deflection,(shortside,5 and 6 hole(under arms), at yous (shot at you and you miss it)). Deflections/screens are not on the goalie, nor is a one timer give and go across the net. Breakaways and odd man breaks, while nice to get a save, are not on the goalie as that's the teams job to prevent those situations.

I think hynes has ****ed up the goalie situation.... by basically benching cory for kk, it regressed Cory's play.... by benching kk for blackwood.... it regressed kks play. If goalies (both starters) are taken out and not played for a while they have no rythm, which tends to temporarily regress a goalie as they lose a feel for the game (practice isnt close to the same). I also think blackwood will negatively be affected by this as he was never ment to play this many games.... he has never played this many in a short span (ahl games are mostly on weekends), so it's no surprise hes "wearing down".

Cory doesn't deserve to play after his 9 games where he's looked like a 53 year old Ron Tugnutt coming out of retirement.

And how can you blame Hynes for playing Blackwood more? Most teams don't have a goalie rotation, so I don't wanna hear that Kinkaid should have been played more since Blackwood started.

You're saying this as if we should have a 50/50 or 60/40 split and that's not how most teams do it.

You know what teams have a goalie rotation like that? Teams where Keith Kinkaid has started most of your games. More teams than not have a starter and a backup. And in the last month, Kinkaid has been used as a backup and Blackwood has been used as the starter.

Before that, Kinkaid was used like he's Marty Brodeur pre-2010 and Cory was a massive liability that would have been jealous of Scott Clemmensen in 2005-2007 and some of Chris Terreri's retread years here.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm off to the Sharks game in Tampa.

See you all later.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think hynes has ****ed up the goalie situation.... by basically benching cory for kk, it regressed Cory's play.... by benching kk for blackwood.... it regressed kks play.

Completely wrong on the second one...KK's play was regressing well before Blackwood came up. As far as Cory I don't know how many games they were supposed to play him on that seven-game road trip when KK was playing well at the time? They actually played him three games which was arguably one too many.

If anything the only place where you can really ding Hynes on goalie usage is trying to drain too much blood from the hot hand stone. He's arguably overused Blackwood, he definitely overused KK and he played Cory into the ground last year even after Cory started getting hurt in late December.

 

[Devils Dominion]

if the ducks had 30 shots in the 2nd and MB stopped them all, would you have said he was good, despite letting 3 in? i’m guessing yes. so whether or not he was good depends on how many shots he sees, which he has no control over?

He wasn't good today

 

[Bleedred]

right, dano said it on goal two, you disagreed. you say it on goal 3, i disagree. that’s the problem. it’s completely subjective, and as a byproduct, worthless.



again, this is absurd. devils had the man advantage, bratt had all day to walk in and roof a perfect shot. AND it was a mini 2 on 1, gibson knew that if bratt passed and connected it would be a tap in

So you disagree on what goal, but in the end, we both have him down for a stoppable one today?

Once again (and I'm tired of your criticism, but I'll keep at it because now I like pissing you and the critics off) I do this to see if there's a correlation between save percentage and the goals that look poor going in.

And Gibson was beaten high short side to the glove. When Marty started having declining numbers, he got beaten to the glove EVERY night.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

The Kinkaid defending is crazy. Our goaltending has absolutely sucked this year and it’s not just because the team in front of them blows. Granted, thats a big part of it but honestly, the skaters almost never have the luxury of games being stolen for them. Mac pulled off a couple when he was called up but it’s been a super rare occurrence this year.

 

[Cage Helmet]

That stat should be kept by ex nhl goalies, or goalies in general. Theres the standard weak/bad ones ,assuming no screen or deflection,(shortside,5 and 6 hole(under arms), at yous (shot at you and you miss it)). Deflections/screens are not on the goalie, nor is a one timer give and go across the net. Breakaways and odd man breaks, while nice to get a save, are not on the goalie as that's the teams job to prevent those situations.

I think hynes has ****ed up the goalie situation.... by basically benching cory for kk, it regressed Cory's play.... by benching kk for blackwood.... it regressed kks play. If goalies (both starters) are taken out and not played for a while they have no rythm, which tends to temporarily regress a goalie as they lose a feel for the game (practice isnt close to the same). I also think blackwood will negatively be affected by this as he was never ment to play this many games.... he has never played this many in a short span (ahl games are mostly on weekends), so it's no surprise hes "wearing down".

Cory didn’t play more because he was a liability and an embarrassment to the jersey that the GOAT proudly displayed for over 20 years here. He was too costly to give more games to. Last we saw of him he gave up one of the softest goals of the year and the NJD came back to win in spite of him being pathetic to start the contest. KK has been used as a backup the last month and that’s what he is. The backup doesn’t play more games than KK has in the last month. At least not typically. And he is what he is. An NHL backup tender. What do you want? Some stupid Marty/Schneids rotation like 2013-2014 or some Marty/Chris Terreri split like 93-94? Come on, bro.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Personally I don't want to see Cory or Keith ever again after this season. I don't know who is out there we can get but I'd take almost anyone else at this point.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Personally I don't want to see Cory or Keith ever again after this season. I don't know who is out there we can get but I'd take almost anyone else at this point.

They absolutely need to move on. Let Keith work on his emoji game in another city and Cory will need to play behind a competent team with some form of strategy if he has any hopes of turning his career around.

 

[Cage Helmet]

So you disagree on what goal, but in the end, we both have him down for a stoppable one today?

Once again (and I'm tired of your criticism, but I'll keep at it because now I like pissing you and the critics off) I do this to see if there's a correlation between save percentage and the goals that look poor going in.

And Gibson was beaten high short side to the glove. When Marty started having declining numbers, he got beaten to the glove EVERY night.

I say f*** the critics. You do you. There will be critics on every stance. Keep your skin thick, bro. The research and the gift of your time is truly admirable. I wish I had more time to watch every game highlight around the league. If posters wanna brush off the SVP% stat then I say there needs to be context and some delving and movement into what’s going on and I think you’re trying to do so. Even if some don’t agree it’s valid insight.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Was there any reason Hynes didn't pull Blackwood when the powerplay started?

 

[Cage Helmet]

They absolutely need to move on. Let Keith work on his emoji game in another city and Cory will need to play behind a competent team with some form of strategy if he has any hopes of turning his career around.

By the time his hip is healed he’ll be middle 30’s and won’t have anything left anyway. Tenders don’t hold up to that age. #30, The Dominator, Roy, Luongo, all those guys were good at 35. That’s why the first three are in the hall and Bobby Lu will be joining them in the next 5 years. Not even Mr. Hanky from across the river has held up into his middle 30’s.

 

[Cage Helmet]

Ha! perfect timing! LAK getting stomped on 7-0 in COL. Jim Fox goes “Okay, what’s stoppable? What could they have saved?”. It was funny with all the talk in this GDT.

 

[Unknown Caller]

By the time his hip is healed he’ll be middle 30’s and won’t have anything left anyway. Tenders don’t hold up to that age. #30, The Dominator, Roy, Luongo, all those guys were good at 35. That’s why the first three are in the hall and Bobby Lu will be joining them in the next 5 years. Not even Mr. Hanky from across the river has held up into his middle 30’s.

Didn't Rinne just win the Vezina at 35?

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

By the time his hip is healed he’ll be middle 30’s and won’t have anything left anyway. Tenders don’t hold up to that age. #30, The Dominator, Roy, Luongo, all those guys were good at 35. That’s why the first three are in the hall and Bobby Lu will be joining them in the next 5 years. Not even Mr. Hanky from across the river has held up into his middle 30’s.

I mean it doesn’t look good for Cory but he does have far less mileage on the clock than any of those guys. His work in game 5 last year was absurdly good and that was with a bum hip so you never know. I personally hope he turns it around. He seems like a good guy and it was never an ideal situation for him here right from the very start. I’m just pretty certain that it’s never happening here for him.

 

[Cage Helmet]

Didn't Rinne just win the Vezina at 35?

He won the Vezina but he also had some very mediocre seasons in his early 30’s. Rare example. Schneids ain’t coming back, bro. Just like Marty after he hit the iceberg. Any steering to shore was temporary. For every Rinne I could point to 3 or 4 youngish and good or elite tenders that never broke their decline. The chances of it happening to Schneids are low. He’s playing against a stacked deck.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Was there any reason Hynes didn't pull Blackwood when the powerplay started?

You mean for an extra attacker? No, Hynes was all about putting his team a man down today, apparently.

 

[Cage Helmet]

I mean it doesn’t look good for Cory but he does have far less mileage on the clock than any of those guys. His work in game 5 last year was absurdly good and that was with a bum hip so you never know. I personally hope he turns it around. He seems like a good guy and it was never an ideal situation for him here right from the very start. I’m just pretty certain that it’s never happening here for him.

A team will sign him to be the backup if Rejean buys him out. One year deal for a million. He could have success and earn another one year deal or he could look even worse and retire from the game after that. At worst he could be passed around on the waiver wire like Niemi. At best he earns one more year or settles in some spot like Niemi did last year AND earns another year.

 

[MartyOwns]

So you disagree on what goal, but in the end, we both have him down for a stoppable one today?

Once again (and I'm tired of your criticism, but I'll keep at it because now I like pissing you and the critics off) I do this to see if there's a correlation between save percentage and the goals that look poor going in.

And Gibson was beaten high short side to the glove. When Marty started having declining numbers, he got beaten to the glove EVERY night.

no, i don’t put goalies down for ‘stoppable goals’ unless it’s a shot from center ice or something ridiculous. and i understand your point about save percentage correlation, but that’s what confirmation bias is. if he gives up 3 goals on 14 shots, i assume it’s easy to say one was stoppable, or for DD to say he played poorly. it’s just lazy.

what marty has to do with this, i can’t imagine. goalies give up glove side goals all the time, it tends to be a vulnerable area. what’s more telling is how much time the player has to release the shot, whether there is traffic, etc. this is a long read, but it explains a lot of these concepts better than i can: https://www.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/54090/Bachelor Thesis McMillan.pdf?sequence

and please don’t get me wrong- it doesn’t piss me off to hear the stoppable nonsense. i respect you and what you’re saying, but i can’t help but provide some desperately-needed context when i see it though, as inconvenient as it may be to consider

 

[Devilsfan992]

Woof, we lost when we only let up 14 shots?!

MBW had a tough game? I didn't like goals 1 and 2 from what I saw on replay.

 

[Cage Helmet]

Personally I don't want to see Cory or Keith ever again after this season. I don't know who is out there we can get but I'd take almost anyone else at this point.

There’s an old hockey adage that the biggest facelift and culture change you can make for your club that’s not changing the coach is by changing your goalie(s). And we already see we aren’t changing the coach right now. So tear down the G position. Kinker on a backup deal wouldn’t be a disaster. It’s a tough position for the guy. He’s been thrown in a bad position due to Schneids biting of the dust and it’s cost him monetarily going forward. I do sympathize with the guy. You almost can’t bring either back after the Rejean mockery quotes about the tending here.