GDT: Devils vs. Ducks - 1:00 PM - MSG+

[Cage Helmet]

Woof, we lost when we only let up 14 shots?!

MBW had a tough game? I didn't like goals 1 and 2 from what I saw on replay.

Goal 1 wasn’t bad. Goal 2 wasn’t great. He played a mediocre game. He played a “NJD netminding in 18-19 game”.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Goal 1 wasn’t bad. Goal 2 wasn’t great. He played a mediocre game. He played a “NJD netminding in 18-19 game”.

The 1st goal itself wasn't weak, but the initial rebound was.

 

[Cage Helmet]

no, i don’t put goalies down for ‘stoppable goals’ unless it’s a shot from center ice or something ridiculous. and i understand your point about save percentage correlation, but that’s what confirmation bias is. if he gives up 3 goals on 14 shots, i assume it’s easy to say one was stoppable, or for DD to say he played poorly. it’s just lazy.

what marty has to do with this, i can’t imagine. goalies give up glove side goals all the time, it tends to be a vulnerable area. what’s more telling is how much time the player has to release the shot, whether there is traffic, etc. this is a long read, but it explains a lot of these concepts better than i can: https://www.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/54090/Bachelor Thesis McMillan.pdf?sequence

and please don’t get me wrong- it doesn’t piss me off to hear the stoppable nonsense. i respect you and what you’re saying, but i can’t help but provide some desperately-needed context when i see it though, as inconvenient as it may be to consider

And yet when folks used to point that #30 was declining and said look at his drop in SVP% people were saying there was nothing wrong with his play when watching. The defense was lousy becuz Bryce Salvador and Volchenkov and this terrible D corps. I read that stuff all the time. It used to grind my nards because I felt it was an insult to the Marty of old. Though likely unintentional from our fanbase. This was the shit I heard from snarky Piles and Raggies kids growing up. Nothing wrong with giving analysis or breaking down what we’re seeing with a shoddy save percentage tender.

 

[Cage Helmet]

The 1st goal itself wasn't weak, but the initial rebound was.

Perhaps. I don’t wanna look again. Time is too precious!

 

[MadDevil]

Didn't Rinne just win the Vezina at 35?

Yes, but even in Rinne's down seasons he didn't look as bad as Cory has for his last 20 games. Plus he still had a pretty good team in front of him to help offset his struggles.

I'd like to believe Cory could have a career renaissance, but I just don't see it happening.

 

[MartyOwns]

And yet when folks used to point that #30 was declining and said look at his drop in SVP% people were saying there was nothing wrong with his play when watching. The defense was lousy becuz Bryce Salvador and Volchenkov and this terrible D corps. I read that stuff all the time. It used to grind my nards because I felt it was an insult to the Marty of old. Though likely unintentional from our fanbase. This was the **** I heard from snarky Piles and Raggies kids growing up. Nothing wrong with giving analysis or breaking down what we’re seeing with a shoddy save percentage tender.

when his SVP was dropping but he was still getting wins- more wins than schneider or whoever- i was one of those people. whether a goalie can win is the most important stat to me...not SVP or GAA. but, i respect those metrics because there’s nothing subjective about them. it’s math.

no there’s nothing wrong with spending so much effort and energy on this ‘stoppable goal’ stuff, but you’ll never get 50 people in a room agreeing on whether a goal is stoppable or not, there’s way too much room for disagreement, depending on how much context is being considered by each person.

here’s a terrible analogy, but i’ve put enough work into this so it’s as good as it gets. a city of 100 people are doing a study about how cloudy their city is over the course of a year. some people say for it to not be considered cloudy, there must be NO clouds. other people say there can be some clouds, but there must be 51% sky to be considered not cloudy. some people say it’s the type of cloud (cirrus, f***ing whatever else i don’t remember 6th grade shit) to be considered cloudy. others say if there’s no rain, there’s no clouds. etc etc etc.

and the end of that year, there will be some fascinating conclusions, some right some wrong. but ultimately, they will have all learned jack shit about whether it was cloudy that year, because their considerations will be heavily influenced by subjectivity on what constitutes ‘cloudy’. fun? maybe. interesting? sure. but ultimately, nothing of value can be gleaned

 

[Cage Helmet]

when his SVP was dropping but he was still getting wins- more wins than schneider or whoever- i was one of those people. whether a goalie can win is the most important stat to me...not SVP or GAA. but, i respect those metrics because there’s nothing subjective about them. it’s math.

no there’s nothing wrong with spending so much effort and energy on this ‘stoppable goal’ stuff, but you’ll never get 50 people in a room agreeing on whether a goal is stoppable or not, there’s way too much room for disagreement, depending on how much context is being considered by each person.

here’s a terrible analogy, but i’ve put enough work into this so it’s as good as it gets. a city of 100 people are doing a study about how cloudy their city is over the course of a year. some people say for it to not be considered cloudy, there must be NO clouds. other people say there can be some clouds, but there must be 51% sky to be considered not cloudy. some people say it’s the type of cloud (cirrus, ****ing whatever else i don’t remember 6th grade ****) to be considered cloudy. others say if there’s no rain, there’s no clouds. etc etc etc.

and the end of that year, there will be some fascinating conclusions, some right some wrong. but ultimately, they will have all learned jack **** about whether it was cloudy that year, because their considerations will be heavily influenced by subjectivity on what constitutes ‘cloudy’. fun? maybe. interesting? sure. but ultimately, nothing of value can be gleaned

Lighten up a bit, bro. Bleed never said he was ultimately an authority on what goals were saveable and what weren’t. It’s a project. Just like all the corsi stuff when it started. There’s an even bigger database out there. There’s guys on Twitter that keep track of where a goalie was beaten, how many times, and on what kind of a shot. Even the NHLN does tbose scouting reports. Like Pekka Rinne was beaten more on the blocker side than anywhere, Lundqvist beaten more to the glove than anywhere and so-on.

 

[MartyOwns]

Lighten up a bit, bro. Bleed never said he was ultimately an authority on what goals were saveable and what weren’t.

i am light? i’m also not entirely convinced that you and bleed are different people, but i’m only sort of kidding about that. anyway, he has claimed to be an authority, citing brainchildren like butch goring and daneyko as people who also bought into this stuff. and:

I'm telling you people, my stoppable goal analytics have now been moved to the Devils broacast!!!!!!

Well, kind of kidding, but just a little bit.

mhm. every. single. goal. scored. on. a. goalie. is. technically. stoppable. all of them

It’s a project. Just like all the corsi stuff when it started. There’s an even bigger database out there. There’s guys on Twitter that keep track of where a goalie was beaten, how many times, and on what kind of a shot. Even the NHLN does tbose scouting reports. Like Pekka Rinne was beaten more on the blocker side than anywhere, Lundqvist beaten more to the glove than anywhere and so-on.

it’s a project without any value. if he kept count of how many glove hand or short side or whatever goals a goalie gave up, that would be enormously interesting and useful information. those are very specific things. corsi is a very specific thing. not sure why you’re mentioning those things here, they are incredibly irrelevant

 

[Camille the Eel]

Boy is everyone talking goaltending.

But outside of a last minute finish by Bratt we really didn’t create that much against Gibson.

As usual we had a few big defensive lapses that hurt us. The rebound on their first goal with everyone watching the puck. The turnover (by Butcher) just throwing it up the boards to no one and creating the chance to begin with.

As to Blackwood - a couple of things for him to learn. First don’t fall asleep when there’s no real action for a long time.

Second be ready to push out hard above your crease and take away the angle on a shooter when the moment comes. It’s an instinct move - very hard - but the top goalies do it. Watching last night Price made the move in Columbus a couple of times, Luongo also at home against Toronto. On the 3d goal Blackwood needed to react faster to the developing situation. It’s something he will learn as he goes forward or not. And that perfection or lack of it will determine whether he becomes a number 1 goalie in the league or not.

On the good side I liked that we came out hitting in the first period. The most physical I’ve seen us maybe all year at the start of a game.

But we sure did get discouraged in a hurry when they scored those two goals so fast. That’s where if Blackwood could have come up with that second save on the power play maybe the game could have been quite different.

Because when we got behind like that so fast there was a feeling - the thought crossed my mind” like “oh no, maybe it’s over.” And we never did get that tying goal. We’re a very fragile club right now. No confidence.

 

[JK3]

Good god you guys are still going on about the goaltending LMAO. How many times can you say the same thing over and over and over and over every day in multiple threads with posts that are a half page long?

 

[Better Call Sal]

This team.

 

[Cage Helmet]

i am light? i’m also not entirely convinced that you and bleed are different people, but i’m only sort of kidding about that. anyway, he has claimed to be an authority, citing brainchildren like butch goring and daneyko as people who also bought into this stuff. and:



mhm. every. single. goal. scored. on. a. goalie. is. technically. stoppable. all of them



it’s a project without any value. if he kept count of how many glove hand or short side or whatever goals a goalie gave up, that would be enormously interesting and useful information. those are very specific things. corsi is a very specific thing. not sure why you’re mentioning those things here, they are incredibly irrelevant

The difference between Bleed and I is that I give up when I know I’m dealing with braciole breakers. I think I just officially broke my rule. A lot of projects have no value in the eyes of someone or a group of people. He must be doing something right because it bothers you so much and if you’re bothering people then you’re doing something right! And what’s wrong with citing Goring and Daneyko? They’ve played the game. Of course they’re not good at their job on the mic but that doesn’t mean they have no idea what they’re taking about. They’re not stupid people. They’re just homers.

Guy, I think disco music sucks and has no value. You might think disco music sucks and has no value. Almost everyone that I know thinks disco music sucks and has no value. Yet there is a contingent of people who somehow enjoy disco music. I think I’m a better musician than the Bee Gee’s. Most people I know will agree with me. Even the people who don’t like my music. Does that mean the Bee Gee’s have no value to anyone? They sold millions of records.

 

[MartyOwns]

The difference between Bleed and I is that I give up when I know I’m dealing with braciole breakers. I think I just officially broke my rule. A lot of projects have no value in the eyes of someone or a group of people. He must be doing something right because it bothers you so much and if you’re bothering people then you’re doing something right! And what’s wrong with citing Goring and Daneyko? They’ve played the game. Of course they’re not good at their job on the mic but that doesn’t mean they have no idea what they’re taking about. They’re not stupid people. They’re just homers.

Guy, I think disco music sucks and has no value. You might think disco music sucks and has no value. Almost everyone that I know thinks disco music sucks and has no value. Yet there is a contingent of people who somehow enjoy disco music. I think I’m a better musician than the Bee Gee’s. Most people I know will agree with me. Even the people who don’t like my music. Does that mean the Bee Gee’s have no value to anyone? They sold millions of records.

how can disco music have “value” to anyone? how are you defining value here? who in this analogy thinks they are better than the bee gees? and what do the bee jees represent? most people you know would think you’re better than the bee gees, even the people who don’t like your music? i have no idea what that means or how it applies. i’m either too high or not high enough for that stuff.

you did this with halaak the other night. he must be a braciole breaker, i must be a braciole breaker, everyone is a braciole breaker. tonight, you inserted yourself into the conversation, used all kinds of logical fallacies and then said ‘his analysis MUST have value because you’re getting pissed off! i’m really breaking my rules with this braciole-breaker over here.’ so let’s not break anymore bracioles in this braciole graveyard and just agree to disagree. i’ve explained my reasoning, you sort of explained yours, it is what it is

 

[Camille the Eel]

Hey another point related to today’s game. Isn’t it time we took Butcher off the first power play unit? The power play sucks and has for two months. The constant is Butcher carrying the puck up ice and also at the top of the key. We can’t gain the zone or do much creative. Butcher looks non plussed and is doing nothing. Time for us to try someone else in those roles.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

How much longer until the GDT is no longer bickering about who is worse - the goalies, the defense, the forwards, the coaches, or the GM and it simply becomes a cacophony of apathetic dissonance sprinkled amongst the opponent's goals?

 

[AveryQuietMan]

Hey another point related to today’s game. Isn’t it time we took Butcher off the first power play unit? The power play sucks and has for two months. The constant is Butcher carrying the puck up ice and also at the top of the key. We can’t gain the zone or do much creative. Butcher looks non plussed and is doing nothing. Time for us to try someone else in those roles.

with so many guys in and out this season i dont think we should be blaming one guy. things havent lined up at all. the rebuild is on hold. we are still on the up swing tho. shouldve won this one

 

[Maine Fan]

Should Shero be fired by doing nothing in the offseason to improve the team, then re-sign John Hynes to a multi year contract, despite the poor record to date this season?

YES

 

[JK3]

How much longer until the GDT is no longer bickering about who is worse - the goalies, the defense, the forwards, the coaches, or the GM and it simply becomes a cacophony of apathetic dissonance sprinkled amongst the opponent's goals?

I'm there now.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I'm there now.

Me too brother. Since that point of no return when the extension was announced. But the GDT is still a fiery brimstone of blame right now. How long until the masses succumb to the suck?

 

[MadDevil]

Hynes was actually talking to us when he said "embrace the suck".

 

[Rebel Devil]

I still think Shero and Hynes have a year and a half. They need to sell like madmen at the deadline .. and then kill it this off-season. A repeat of this off-season and regular season next year and they should be shown the door .. Together.

 

[NJDevs26]

Me too brother. Since that point of no return when the extension was announced. But the GDT is still a fiery brimstone of blame right now. How long until the masses succumb to the suck?

Hopefully the nine-day break will get people into the acceptance stage.

 

[JK3]

Me too brother. Since that point of no return when the extension was announced. But the GDT is still a fiery brimstone of blame right now. How long until the masses succumb to the suck?

I had early onset apathy right at the end of that 6 game slide around Thanksgiving lol, that just crushed all hopes of any playoffs. I can deal with that and it's not bad if you see some incremental improvement within their game or at least seeing some kids taking steps but I just don't see any of that now.

 

[NJDevs26]

I had early onset apathy right at the end of that 6 game slide around Thanksgiving lol, that just crushed all hopes of any playoffs. I can deal with that and it's not bad if you see some incremental improvement within their game or at least seeing some kids taking steps but I just don't see any of that now.

I think my last delusions ended with the Dallas game and that whole road trip (but specifically the Dallas game at the start) after we'd at least had a decent streak at home before then, of course I hadn't actually looked at the standings much till then.

 

[MadDevil]

I've been in the acceptance stage since about early December, which I think is the last time I watched a game start to finish. It's just not worth the aggravation, especially with some of the real world shit I've been going through lately. Sometimes it's better to just step away than to constantly get upset over every game.

I'm hoping for a good return for our pending UFAs, using some (or all) of that return to bring in some help via trade, a strong draft, and more kids pushing for spots next year. This year definitely sucks, but that doesn't mean we can't have a good offseason and be right back in the hunt next year.