Post-Game Talk: Devils Lose Again, Cory's Streak Continues!

[MadDevil]

every goalie in the league (+13 starts) is a at least half a goal saved per game better than cory since the start of 2018.

this isn't a matter of a bad few games or like the team not showing up. the dude is the worst goalie in the league and by good measure. the "eye test" also confirms it.

So your point is that Cory isn't good? I don't think you'll find anybody that disagrees. You, Bleed, and everybody else that loves to kick Cory when he's already down really need to stop acting like people think he's still good. We all know he's lost a lot of games in a row. We watch the games too. Constantly harping on how bad he is isn't going to change anything. It's also kind of dumb on a night when he gave up 2 goals to the other team and 3 to his own team.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Re:Boyle, speed yes, and I think he's not so quick moving the puck around so the system hinges on that puck movement plays/speed through neutral zone.

Boyle is very likable, but he goes for many games where it looks like he isn't very effective, in my opinion. Then he'll come on again and play 1 or 2 very good games and look more like a strong 3rd liner, only soon to fall back soon to his usual games where you barely notice him (except maybe on his PP front net presence). Like i said with Wood, his size is a factor why Hynes keeps him in, and I'm sure behind the scenes he's very strong character in the room.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

It's a lot easier for a fourth-line forward to be 'unnoticeable' than a first-pairing defenseman (and I don't think being unnoticeable is a great trait for a forward either). Especially when the first-pairing defenseman is probably a second or third-pairing guy at most right now but he's only there cause the other options are all young guys who are second-pairing guys at most.

And obviously Greene made an idiot mistake, he knew it the second he did it by his visceral reaction. There's no reality check needed there.

He's only there because the coaching staff is filled with idiots.

Second pairing young guys are still better than what Greene is now, which is a fringe NHLer. That C on his chest is saving him from being where he should be, the press box.

EDIT: sorry, it also lies on Shero for not being as active as he should've been this off season to address the defene. de Haan would've helped the d out a lot more than he seems like he would. That was foolish not to try and get him.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I can’t believe we actually potted three own goals tonight.

Is that some sort of league record?

This isn't soccer where you'll see the OG sometimes more frequently. In hockey, usually an own goal is a total abomination........ and we had 3 of them, and 1 not too many games ago also (Vats and Sevs or another D man). That one was also as ridiculous as the Greene one, except Vats is a bit more forgivable because he himself provides so much of a lionshare worth of other contributions that can make up for an occasional awful once a season blunder.

Yes I am a Vats apologist

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I can’t believe we actually potted three own goals tonight.

I'm lying in bed still shaking my head

 

[MadDevil]

This Cory "Old age* meme just doesn't fly in my mind...the guy didn't become a starter until 2015-16.

Before he become a starter in 2015-16 he had 129 starts...So he was a starter for only 2 years then began his decline at 29 years old? That **** don't add up.

It's not just age. It's also injuries. Just looking at him you can tell he doesn't move like he used to. He was never all that athletic to begin with, so even losing a little bit of mobility is going to have a pretty significant affect.

 

[Bleedred]

every goalie in the league (+13 starts) is a at least half a goal saved per game better than cory since the start of 2018.

this isn't a matter of a bad few games or like the team not showing up. the dude is the worst goalie in the league and by good measure. the "eye test" also confirms it.

Damn you man! I was gonna shut up about him for at least a little, but you had to get me going again!

I just looked it up. Since the start of the 16-17 season (this isn't including playoffs) Schneider is .905% goaltender, regular season only. This is real time, updated through tonight all his regular season appearances since. If we cut off his October of 2016 and first half of November, it's even worse, but the playoff series probably keeps it at a .905%. This is not including the playoffs. Out of goalies that have played over 100 games? Only Cam Ward and his .903% are worse. Schneider and Ward are actually the only guys to play over 100 games in the bottom 10 of this. Schneider is 10th last when using 40 games minimum played. Only Korpisalo, Pickard, Johnson, Niemi, Mrazek, Darling, Ward and Domingue have been worse among at least 40 games played. If we cut it to a minimum of 75 games played, only Johnson (career backup), Mrazek (terrible goalie that had a couple hot years prior), Darling (out of shape, too fat. Already been waived) and Ward (washed up for years) have been worse since the start of 2016-2017.

If we roll it to the start of 2017-2018 with minimum 40 games played? .901% save percentage. And remember, he had a hot 3 months last year and that's counted in this. The only guys worse have been Darling, Johnson, Anderson (37 years old and plays on a much worse team than this), Price (we got another younger and once elite guy!), Murray (overhyped and not as good as his first couple years) and Ward have been worse.

Now with just this year? A minimum 4 games played, only Hutchinson and Malcolm Subban have been worse. If you put it 6 games and at least 5 starts this year? Good news is that Pickard is very close to him at .863% (Schneider at .862%) and has started 8 games and played in 11. Pickard even has a shutout in there. My god, he's been abysmal. But do you know where else Pickard has abysmal? On my stoppable goal count. 31 goals allowed for him and 12 stoppable. 26 for Schneider, 11 stoppable.

 

[guitarguyvic]

When a bubble team has a backup goalie who loses every single game, you get what we have now...a last place team.

Currently we are 10 points out of a playoff spot. If Cory won games at the same clip as Keith it would be just 4 points out with games in hand.

You can say we have other issues contributing to this, but improving the goaltending and coaching would have the most positive and immediate impact, IMO.

 

[R8Devs]

The thing that pisses me off the worse is that Zacha has been given every opportunity to succeed - he has been the teams 2nd line center all season aside from that small stint in AHL, he's gotten some 2nd unit PP time, he's gotten some PK time and even some OT time and the drive is still not there.

Yet the likes of Brett Seney busts his ass on every shift he has and gets a goal today but he is only rewarded with 7 minutes of ice time.

I'm sick of the Zacha excuses, that we need to play him between MoJo and Bratt because of his 'defense'. It is a bunch of bullcrap. The kid just doesn't want to be an NHLer. Well not with this team. Only solution is to trade him.

i don't even really get what you mean that he doesn't want to be an NHLer. he's probably one of the only guys on the team who's not from the area who stays in NJ just to be with the Devils staff. I'm sure out of all people he's probably the one that wants him to produce the most. anyway, guys who are as solid defensively as he is at 21 are probably going to stay in the NHL for a long time. And he's getting the 3rd most ice time out of all the centers anyway so I don't get why 2C is brought up so much. That's kind of trivial.

It's not really a bunch of bullcrap that the Devils want someone who is stable between MoJo and Bratt either. He's more capable of helping out the defenseman in the d-zone and breaking out at this point than Seney is (which is not a bad thing about Seney as he's not that far removed from playing for Merrimack). I'm not really opposed to trying Seney with them but they have done it before and I guess they didn't like how it went or they don't want to rush Seney either, maybe both.

 

[JimEIV]

I would just like to say that Palmieri is 4th in the league among RW goal scorers. Only Laine, Pasternak and Atkinson have more.

Pretty good for a 2nd liner

 

[Bleedred]

This Cory "Old age* meme just doesn't fly in my mind...the guy didn't become a starter until 2015-16.

Before he become a starter in 2015-16 he had 129 starts...So he was a starter for only 2 years then began his decline at 29 years old? That **** don't add up.

Logically the injuries are the reason for this sort of decline, rather than being old, which he's really not that old, even if he's above league average in age, or lack of mileage.

A few things I need to correct in your post though, since I'm being fair and I'm definitely not biased here. He became a starter in 2014-2015, not 2015-2016. Technically, he started more games for his team in both 2012-2013 and 2013-2014, but the first year was a lockout shortened season and the second year he only played a little over 40 games. And he was age 30 at his decline, not 29.

His dip in play started on November 17th of 2016, and it started in this very building where we played tonight. Right in Anaheim. Remember, he was really good in the first 1.5 months of 16-17. He was even getting wins at a good rate that season up to that point, which I know you appreciate. That was game 13 of that season. Tonight is the 100th game he's saw some kind of action, including playoff games since that night and he has a .904% since that night over that 100 games. That includes playoffs, that includes tonight's game, that includes his various hot streaks since then, like his 28 game stretch of .923% goaltending last year through December 27th, the 3.5 playoff games, his ,925% month of January 2017 and his .928% month of February 2017. And if all that wasn't bad enough, his 4 AHL games over the last 2 seasons have been around a combined .905% also. His career average before this stretch in 292 games played, playoffs and regular season combined? .925% career. When you have 2 years of goaltending like that, you wind up Ray Emery'ing or Dan Cloutier'ing yourself out of the league.

Was he injured in November of 2016? Who knows, but we do know he was injured in March of 2016, despite coming back for a few games late in the season and looking fine, as well as the first 12 games of 2016-2017, where he was a .929% goalie to start that season through 12 games. There was a chance that maybe he was bouncing back last year (he looked worse on the eye test through December than his save percentage though, but not nearly this bad either. Just average) after one isolated poor year in 16-17, but that hip injury made him completely fall apart. Whatever the case may be, he's completely fallen apart, no matter how he got there.

 

[JimEIV]

Nevermind I got the years mixed up

 

[Bleedred]

When a bubble team has a backup goalie who loses every single game, you get what we have now...a last place team.

Currently we are 10 points out of a playoff spot. If Cory won games at the same clip as Keith it would be just 4 points out with games in hand.

You can say we have other issues contributing to this, but improving the goaltending and coaching would have the most positive and immediate impact, IMO.

I do want to make this clear. Has Cory been unlucky to have exactly ZERO regular season wins over his last 18 starts and in the last 49+ weeks? Yes. I think he should have won 3-4 of these (he almost won a game like this tonight!) games just by the team being able to outscore the other team. So he's been unlucky to receive zero wins. He shouldn't have many since then, but 3, maybe 4 wins? He probably should have in the last 49 or 50 weeks of regular season play. That he should have. And that's why I don't use wins when going over his play, because he should have won a couple of these, even when he didn't play well.

But the really scary part is that he's allowed at least 3 goals in all but one of those starts. He has one single loss where he allowed fewer than 3 goals in this stretch. Just one. If you can't have more 2 goal or 1 goal against games (which he hasn't had the since last time he won a game in the regular season. as far as his starts go.) then you probably aren't gonna have a winning record. We have another goalie on this team that's had quite a few 1-2 goal against games and even 4 shutouts since the last time (and I know he's played more games for this to happen and I know he's gotten some post help) Cory allowed 1 goal in a game.

We definitely need to move on at the end of this year, by way of buyout or LTIRement. With how bad he's been the last two years, we don't wanna see what he looks like in 2020 or 2021 or 2022. It's not even like his poor play is plateauing, it might be getting worse.

I will say if he played more games, he probably wouldn't have an .865%. That's way unsustainable. At some point, more pucks are gonna start hitting him (like the pucks he has no chance on) and stuff like these own goals aren't gonna happen. So I don't think he'd be an .860-something goalie, he's probably not that bad, but he is probably a .905% goalie and that's pretty bad in itself.

 

[Bleedred]

Nevermind I got the years mixed up

Fair enough.

But he did play 69 games I think in 2014-2015 and 59 in 2015-2016, while playing at a very high level.

He played so good in 15-16, that I don't think he allowed much more than 20 clunky goals all year long. He's already allowed 11 of those this year in 6 starts. Same with 14-15. He allowed some poor goals in October and November, but after that? He was really good that year. Most of the time to score on him those years? You needed own goals or some deflections or something with him down from a couple feet in front of the net.

And hell, he even stopped some deflections back then and ''Screen shots'' which might not even look like ''Stoppable'' goals when they're scored on him now.

 

[OmNomNom]

i vote for a brown paper bag GDT

 

[OmNomNom]

it's unmetric-able, but this should sink our PDO to the pits

 

[billingtons ghost]

Not really going to try to defend Greene or Lovejoy or Vats last week, but those are all reaction plays - and really bad luck. For Lovejoy, it's going to hit him in the glove or shoulder - I'm not sure what else he could have done except try to limbo out of the way.
For Greene, it's a rebound straight up in the air that is going to bounce on the goal line. I'm not going to kill him for trying to save a goal.
For Vats, he needs to clear the puck else it is on the opponent's stick...

If there was ever a time to wheel out the 'luck' excuse for goalie play or SV% being down - these are the times.

Been saying Greene is just done for the past few months - he's just lost a step and lost his edge. Too bad - as he's far exceeded any expectations for about 10 years now, so I'm not going to kill him.

Lovejoy - well... he'd be a great #7 defenseman. He shouldn't be getting the minutes that he's getting.

 

[Bleedred]

it's unmetric-able, but this should sink our PDO to the pits

Maybe not.

We did score a lot of goals tonight, Our high shooting percentage will offset our poor save percentage.

 

[Bleedred]

As I promised a couple hours ago, I went it looked it up!

Games this season in which we had a 3rd period lead at some point and lost!

October 18th vs Colorado: Led 3-2 in the 3rd period, lost 4-3 in regulation.
October 25th vs Nashville: Led 3-2 in the 3rd period, lost 4-3 in OT.
November 1st @ Detroit: Led 2-1 in the 3rd period, lost 4-3 in regulation.
November 17th: vs Detroit: Led 2-1 in the 3rd period lost 3-2 in regulation.
November 26th: @ Florida, Led 3-2 in the 3rd period, lost 4-3 in OT.
December 9th: @ Anaheim: Led 4-3 in the 3rd period, lost 6-5 in the shootout.

That's not even counting games where we were tied in the 3rd and lost in regulation or the 3 different games we've lost while being up 2-0 and losing, 2 of which were in regulation.

Some of this is definitely poor goaltending, as I distinctly remember Kinkaid being poor against Nashville and Cory being poor against Detroit, as well as tonight, even if not on the goals where we lost the lead.

 

[Bleedred]

Even though we won a single game to break the losing streak, we're officially in December 2016 territory once again in December of 2018. It's come a little earlier than it did that year.

We are still at an all time low in points after 28 games into a season in the Shero/Hynes era.

15-16: 14-10-4. 32 points in 28 games.
16-17: 12-10-6. 30 points in 28 games.
17-18: 16-8-4. 36 points in 28 games.
18-19: 10-12-6. 26 points in 28 games!

Currently pacing for a 76 point finish!

Probably even worse if we continue the trajectory over our 24 games this season. We're 6-12-6 since our 4-0-0 start. f***in pathetic.

By the way, I think it's about time to start giving it more to Zacha. 4 points, 0 assists on 23 games. That's worse than I thought, as I swore he had an assist a few games, but I guess he didn't? This is Jacob Josefson-like totals right here. Not good enough.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I think a better system that allows for more creativity from the offense would do wonders for a few of our players, mainly Johansson Zacha and Hischier

Also a system that is FAR more solid defensively would obviously improve every one of the dmen.

A loss to SJ would make it 2 wins in 12 games... If nothing is done soon then there will be no playoffs and whether people expected them or not, how is that not the goal for Shero? Whether that involves trades or personnel changes, it has to be something because doing nothing is worse.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We legit scored three own goals tonight. Still can’t believe it.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Cant it be said that Hynes came in and established a sense of strong community among the locker room and also a sense of accountability... and now he can move on so we can focus on the on-ice issues more?

Sort of like Lamoriello going into NY... nobody is silly enough to think he is staying for a long time, the man is there to establish an actually competent system for the organization and provide stability and a sense of how a team should be run... but he wont be around when they need a GM to take them to the promise land/build for the future.

 

[MadDevil]

We legit scored three own goals tonight. Still can’t believe it.

And on a night we score 5 on the other team no less. It's so bizarre I keep pinching myself to make sure it's not just a nightmare.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

i don't even really get what you mean that he doesn't want to be an NHLer.

Zacha's work ethic is terrible. He coasts way too much and his half assed attempts to move the puck or clear the zone cost us last night.