Post-Game Talk: Devils Lose Again, Cory's Streak Continues!

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Bleedred

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Cant it be said that Hynes came in and established a sense of strong community among the locker room and also a sense of accountability... and now he can move on so we can focus on the on-ice issues more?

Sort of like Lamoriello going into NY... nobody is silly enough to think he is staying for a long time, the man is there to establish an actually competent system for the organization and provide stability and a sense of how a team should be run... but he wont be around when they need a GM to take them to the promise land/build for the future.
I always thought Hynes was probably a transition coach and not necessarily a coach that would still be here when we seriously go to battle, unless he gets such good results that can't be ignored.

He's not gotten those such good results that can't be ignored, but he also has some bad luck going his way with the goalie situation. He also creates some of his own bad luck by how much he plays Greene and thinking he's still good. I have no love for Hynes, never have, never will. He's just a guy. I think we could do much better, but I think, especially at this time, we could do much worse. Especially if Shero calls up that other guy that used to coach in the area. I'll give you a hint, he's French, he's tan, he's got hair. God forbid he brings in another available coach, like another certain Hiney Head that's recently found himself out of work. Or that koala looking motherf***er that's a born loser head coach or Lloyd Christmas over on the bench standing right next to Hynes.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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I always thought Hynes was probably a transition coach and not necessarily a coach that would still be here when we seriously go to battle, unless he gets such good results that can't be ignored.

He's not gotten those such good results that can't be ignored, but he also has some bad luck going his way with the goalie situation. He also creates some of his own bad luck by how much he plays Greene and thinking he's still good. I have no love for Hynes, never have, never will. He's just a guy. I think we could do much better, but I think, especially at this time, we could do much worse. Especially if Shero calls up that other guy that used to coach in the area. I'll give you a hint, he's French, he's tan, he's got hair. God forbid he brings in another available coach, like another certain Hiney Head that's recently found himself out of work. Or that koala looking mother****er that's a born loser head coach or Lloyd Christmas over on the bench standing right next to Hynes.
i dont think luck should be used at all unless it is an extreme case, like half your top 6 being out long term or both goalies out...

The job security of cosches is results driven - the chances of Hall staying are results driven - and the chances of making the playoffs are results driven

Hynes simply isnt getting it done and it is close to the moment in the season where making the playoffs becomes a distant dream.
 

Bleedred

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i dont think luck should be used at all unless it is an extreme case, like half your top 6 being out long term or both goalies out...

The job security of cosches is results driven - the chances of Hall staying are results driven - and the chances of making the playoffs are results driven

Hynes simply isnt getting it done and it is close to the moment in the season where making the playoffs becomes a distant dream.
I don't disagree with you, but I think we're cooked for now and a new coach probably ain't gonna help for now. If he comes with a new goalie, maybe he'll help. If he comes with magic beans to feed Zacha that'll make him score more than the 15 points he's on pace to score over 82 games, maybe he'll help.

Other than that, we're a point here where we should give up, total demolition of the goalie position at the end of the year (Kinkaid can come back, if he wants to take a discount and be a backup), at least one upgrade on defense and maybe a forward or two to replace Johansson AND Zacha, who can't score. And maybe consider evaluating the coaching staff, which includes Hynes.
 

Wingman77

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And on a night we score 5 on the other team no less. It's so bizarre I keep pinching myself to make sure it's not just a nightmare.

Outside of the first half of 2010-11 and most of the 2016-17 season (specifically the end with that 10 game losing streak), this past month and a half has been one of the worst stretches this team has had in decades. We had worse rosters on some of the teams of the past 6 seasons and some of what we've seen during this stretch is hard to take in and some parts right in the category of you can't make this up. So many little things, last night a great summation with the 3 own goals, have gone out of their favor.
 
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MartyOwns

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sounds like i made the right decision skipping this one. now the question is, do i dare watch the highlights? we scored 3 in our own net? holy shit
 

Cult of Hynes

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This team is the joke of the league again.

I said on the Ducks GDT that if they tie it up in the third, which I figured would happen, they will win the game because this staff has no clue what its doing in OT. And I was right, though I thought they would lose in OT and not the shootout, but yet again we lost because of Hynes.

The writing is all over the f***ing wall, floors, ceiling and even in the parking lot with how bad of a coach Hynes is, yet Shero sticks with him.

We have a better roster than 15-16 and 16-17, yet we are worse this year at the 28 game mark than we were in those seasons.

Thats f***ing pathetic.

4 f***ing own goals in a month, 3 of them in one game.

3 of the 4 from defenseman that should know better. All because of a horrible system implemented by a bad coaching staff that should be gone already.
 

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And it's not like they were all the usual bad luck own goals where a shot goes off a body or skate. Lovejoy apparently thought he was an infielder instead of a defenseman. Then you've got Greene flailing at the puck like an idiot (his reaction tells it all). The Noesen one was mostly just bad luck (at least he attempted to cover the backdoor, unlike the Montour goal where all 5 idiots were fixated on the puck).
 

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Can we please stop with the Cory blame in this game, he isn't the reason why we lost.
3 own goals is absolutely terrible, this game would've been 5-2.

Butcher was very good today. Damon Severson still can't play defense. Vats has been a f***ing waste this season.

We have 0 structure on defense, this is what it's coming down too. The stoppable goal metric is absolutely terrible as it's completely subjective and fits the bias of that person. What I hate even more, is it absolve bad defense most of the time. And when the goaltender saves the ass of his team when they breakdown in front of him, it goes largely unnoticed. It's a huge negativitt bias.

Goal 3 was piss poor defense, it was the epitome of bad defense, and it happens way too often, sure Severson needs to be blamed for completely leaving his man wide open, but I would blame that terrible coaching staff more
 
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bobilly45

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Can we please stop with the Cory blame in this game, he isn't the reason why we lost.
3 own goals is absolutely terrible, this game would've been 5-2.

Butcher was very good today. Damon Severson still can't play defense. Vats has been a ****ing waste this season.

We have 0 structure on defense, this is what it's coming down too. The stoppable goal metric is absolutely terrible as it's completely subjective and fits the bias of that person.

Goal 3 was piss poor defense, it was the epitome of bad defense, and it happens way too often, sure Severson needs to be blamed for completely leaving his man wide open, but I would blame that terrible coaching staff more

The whole weak goal thing is subjective to many... regardless of kk or cory many are too quick to place blame of on the goalies instead of where it actually belongs.
That said I only call weak goals based on being in that exact position in my games and how I view goals that I let in. There was 0 d for the 3rd, yet cory had the position played perfectly, he just couldn't glove it and it was shot right at him. 10 out of 10 goalies will tell you the goalie needs to stop that.

Even if you fault him for 2 weak ones... which I dont consider goal 1 through a screen weak, nor the goalies fault, the team scored 3 own goals. Idc whose in net, you're losing that game 98% of the time. To get a point and have Cory play his best game since his return is a decent result
 

Bleedred

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Can we please stop with the Cory blame in this game, he isn't the reason why we lost.
3 own goals is absolutely terrible, this game would've been 5-2.

Butcher was very good today. Damon Severson still can't play defense. Vats has been a ****ing waste this season.

We have 0 structure on defense, this is what it's coming down too. The stoppable goal metric is absolutely terrible as it's completely subjective and fits the bias of that person. What I hate even more, is it absolve bad defense most of the time. And when the goaltender saves the ass of his team when they breakdown in front of him, it goes largely unnoticed. It's a huge negativitt bias.

Goal 3 was piss poor defense, it was the epitome of bad defense, and it happens way too often, sure Severson needs to be blamed for completely leaving his man wide open, but I would blame that terrible coaching staff more
Wait a minute. Weren't you posting from the game talking about how bad he was in the 1st period in real time?

Goal 3 was the worst goal he allowed last night. Short side. It looked even worse from the front view than it did behind the net view.

The bottom line here is we can debate which goals were and weren't bad, but what we can't debate are the facts that Schneider is a .902% goalie in the regular season (thanks NHL.com) since November 17th of 2016. That's 96 games played. He's a .904% goalie since then, if you include his really good playoff series last year and he's a consistent .863% goalie since December 29th of last year (in the regular season) and that's 20 games worth now.

So, we don't have to go over what goals were bad and which ones weren't, but the fact is that there's other metrics that tell us he's a bad goalie now. Just like Marty in 2014, who most of this board (myself included) wanted off the team right then and there.

We don't have to debate the stoppable goals if you don't want, we can debate what the numbers say and there's goalies on worse teams than this, who have been better. There's literally like 5 goalies worse than Schneider over the last 2 years, who have played 75 or more games. That's it. Those guys are like Darling, Ward, Mrazek, I forget the other ones. Some real laughers in there. There's also a goalie on the same team that's played behind the same team and shitty defense, yet he's been better the last 2 years. He has league average numbers. Why is that?

For the record, Cory had no chance on goals 2, 4 and 5. Never would have claimed he did.
 

BahlDeep

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The whole weak goal thing is subjective to many... regardless of kk or cory many are too quick to place blame of on the goalies instead of where it actually belongs.
That said I only call weak goals based on being in that exact position in my games and how I view goals that I let in. There was 0 d for the 3rd, yet cory had the position played perfectly, he just couldn't glove it and it was shot right at him. 10 out of 10 goalies will tell you the goalie needs to stop that.

Even if you fault him for 2 weak ones... which I dont consider goal 1 through a screen weak, nor the goalies fault, the team scored 3 own goals. Idc whose in net, you're losing that game 98% of the time. To get a point and have Cory play his best game since his return is a decent result

And most people didn't pay attention to the terrible defense that was played on Goal 3. Everyone jumped on Cory, yet Severson completely left his man in a prime shooting area
 

NJDevs26

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We have 0 structure on defense, this is what it's coming down too. The stoppable goal metric is absolutely terrible as it's completely subjective and fits the bias of that person. What I hate even more, is it absolve bad defense most of the time. And when the goaltender saves the ass of his team when they breakdown in front of him, it goes largely unnoticed. It's a huge negativitt bias.

All true, but by the same token when you're in the hole as much as Cory is you're just not getting the benefit of the doubt on anything.
 
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BahlDeep

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All true, but by the same token when you're in the hole as much as Cory is you're just not getting the benefit of the doubt on anything.

And again, I didn't absolve Cory from anything. I'm better then simply categorizing goals by stoppable
 

Bleedred

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All true, but by the same token when you're in the hole as much as Cory is you're just not getting the benefit of the doubt on anything.
It's just like coaches though. The Hynes thread over on the mainboard somebody made a few weeks back.

''It's a bad team, there's no way it's his fault'' as if bad coaches don't coach bad teams sometimes. Like it's impossible for a bad coach to be head coach of a team that's already bad. Same with goalies and defense.

Ryan Miller and John Gibson play behind the systemless Carlyle trash, yet they don't allow as many goals. For Miller that wasn't the case last night, that may have been one of his highest goals against counts this season.
 

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It's just like coaches though. The Hynes thread over on the mainboard somebody made a few weeks back.

''It's a bad team, there's no way it's his fault'' as if bad coaches don't coach bad teams sometimes. Like it's impossible for a bad coach to be head coach of a team that's already bad. Same with goalies and defense.

Ryan Miller and John Gibson play behind the systemless Carlyle trash, yet they don't allow as many goals. For Miller that wasn't the case last night, that may have been one of his highest goals against counts this season.
He was entering last nights game with a .930 save percentage. He had a great start to the year. Then he got trucked in net and physically.
 

Bleedred

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And again, I didn't absolve Cory from anything. I'm better then simply categorizing goals by stoppable
Okay, fine.

Use save percentage then. Not for a single game, but for the last 100 and I've posted those numbers already.

The only reason I do the stoppable goal thing is to try and give explanations of why the goalie has a poor save percentage. Because people don't like when someone just throws numbers out with no context.

And hey, that's fine. I understand that, so I try to give a reasonable explanation to back up what I'm seeing and goals 1 and 3 were not the greatest of goals to me last night. Brian Hayward of the Ducks (saw it posted here and saw someone else talking about it) commented on Cory's positioning being way off in the 1st period last night and leaving himself prone to rebounds because of it. He used to be a goalie. I do trust his analysis and I was seeing the same things he was.
 

BahlDeep

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Again, you should read my post. Being in the heat of the moment it's easy to jump to the easiest of conclusions. And I was also in attendance which makes it harder.

You spend so much time analyzing everything, and you provide nothing really interesting. Sorry don't mean to be rude, but you repeat the same thing all over again all the time, and ask the same questions all the time. It's like you don't read posts, and just copy/paste your previous posts.

And I never spoke about the past 100 games of Cory. More reading, less writing might go a long way

Anyways I'm done with this, have a great day sir
 

Bleedred

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He was entering last nights game with a .930 save percentage. He had a great start to the year. Then he got trucked in net and physically.
Both Ducks goalies have been really good this year. I don't think Miller would be this good as a starter anymore, but he's playing the twilight career backup role pretty well.
 

Bleedred

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Again, you should read my post. Being in the heat of the moment it's easy to jump to the easiest of conclusions. And I was also in attendance which makes it harder.

You spend so much time analyzing everything, and you provide nothing really interesting. Sorry don't mean to be rude, but you repeat the same thing all over again all the time, and ask the same questions all the time. It's like you don't read posts, and just copy/paste your previous posts.

Anyways I'm done with this, have a great day sir
And I gave you my explanation. I'm telling you the goals that I feel are stoppable, so I can add context rather than throw out ''He sucks because his save percentage is .904% over his last 100 games. End of conversation, I don't care what my eyes tell me!'' and you can agree with me or not, but if you don't agree with me, that's fine, but then I have to throw you those numbers. Honestly, I think that's pretty reasonable, as there's a lot of stats guys that say ''Oh, this guy sucks! His corsi is pathetic!'' and can't come up with any explanation other than ''The numbers say he sucks!''.

I perfectly understand heat of the moment, but when I watch this goalie, I see an aging, broken down netminder and we as Devils fans should be familiar with that, as we saw another one at the top of the decade.
 

johnny pierogi

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This team is the joke of the league again.

I said on the Ducks GDT ...

Lol, why are you on the Ducks GDT?

Anyway, Cory really does stink but last night he wasn't helped out by his own team putting three past him. That's like if you were drowning and the Lifeguard came over and punched you in the face and then asked "WHY ARE YOU DROWNING EVEN MORE NOW WTF??"
 
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