LeBrun: Devils are starting to listen on Taylor Hall

[Blackjack]

Was that dude an Avs fan? My bad if he is, since I haven’t seen him around on the Avs board recently and he doesn’t have “Avs” in his name.

No worries

 

[JoemAvs]

The Habs top 10 prospects are deep, very deep and we have quantity of grade B's after that! If you don't agree, it's pure ignorance cause you don't know anything about the prospects and you think we overrate them. After the last draft, we have one of the best, if not the best prospect pool.

Think about how rare it is to have 7 players playing WJC and 3 of them won MVP, Best Dman, and Best Goalie. Plus we could have had 9 prospects in that tournament with Kotkaniemi (playing NHL) and Ikonen (Injured). And we have several guys who will be in the next WJC. Overrating? That BS! Ask someone you respect who knows prospects well from around the league. And you should stop if you think I'm not looking at other trends vs the WJC as well.

Look at the value difference from 20-40 range. It's not as huge as you would assume. Just two examples below and there is lots of other examples if you look into it. I would have Ylonen and a 2nd (31-45 range) worth more than a 1st (20-31 range) but the gap is not massive between the two. That's my point.

Thanks for posting information I was already well aware off.
Lets just say I routinely disagree with you on your valuation of Habs assets by a ton. Ryan Poehling for example currently is not an A level prospect to me. And give me the 1st over a prospect I know that does not have high end potential + 2nd. Thats a gamble I gladly take...
Oh and I don't give a damn about how many players a team has at the WJC because that tells me exactly nothing about the individual quality of these prospects. Its at best an indicator that your pool has a lot of quantity (and/or that you probably picked a ton of non-Canadiens/Americans) which is great and certainly true with the Habs but nothing more.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Double-edged sword.

Hall saying he doesn’t want to sign with a specific team could also completely eliminate them from the bidding as well.

The devils may be better off keeping all teams in the dark w/r/t contract extension.

It’s hard to say without knowing Hall’s true UFA intentions.

Is he a Stone example? Or a Tavares example?

That's true and this is why it's fun to talk about various situations that could happen as fans. I read a rumor that Hall would be interested in signing in Montreal... Lets say it's true. If you were Hall and his agent, that's exactly what I would say weather I was interested or not. They want as many teams giving offers as possible so he can choose the best for him.

Remember Tavares saying the right things as a pending UFA when it's clear now, he wanted to go home. So do I believe that Hall wants to play in Montreal? I'll believe it when I see it. lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thanks for posting information I was already well aware off.
Lets just say I routinely disagree with you on your valuation of Habs assets by a ton. Ryan Poehling for example currently not is an A level prospect to me. And give me the 1st over a prospect I know that does not have high end potential + 2nd. Thats a gamble I gladly take...

Who was the Sabres asking for when Bergevin was desperate for ROR? It was Poehling. He is a grade A prospect to most but you are entitled to think what you want.

Caufield = Fringe blue chip

Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Primeau, Romanov = Grade A

Norlinder, Ylonen, Harris, Brook = Fringe grade A

Hillis, Struble, Stapley, Fonstad, Pitlick, Olofsson = Grade B. If I called these guys grade A, then I would be overrating them.

Habs offering a choice between Primeau or Poehling is not a decision we made easily. But hey, you don't have to like them or value them like most would. Were not going higher than that.

The age 20 and under prospects the Habs have at the moment is impressive and I would put them up against any other team. Some teams would have stars like Dahlin or Hughes for example but the Habs strength is both quality and quantity.

Also, How do you "know" a prospect like Ylonen doe snot have high potential? Do you think you can hit with a 20-31 range pick and that guy has top line potential? It's possible yeah but I would take two darts over 1. Especially if it's Ylonen and a pick from the 31-40 range. That's two shots at a top 6F or top 4D. Something tells me you think the 1st gives you a good shot at top line/top paring talent. Sure, it's possible, good luck.

 

[JoemAvs]

Who was the Sabres asking for when Bergevin was desperate for ROR? It was Poehling. He is a grade A prospect to most but you are entitled to think what you want.

Caufield = Fringe blue chip

Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Primeau, Romanov = Grade A

Norlinder, Ylonen, Harris, Brook = Fringe grade A

Hillis, Struble, Stapley, Fonstad, Pitlick, Olofsson = Grade B. If I called these guys grade A, then I would be overrating them.

Habs offering a choice between Primeau or Poehling is not a decision we made easily. But hey, you don't have to like them or value them like most would. Were not going higher than that.

The age 20 and under prospects the Habs have at the moment is impressive and I would put them up against any other team. Some teams would have stars like Dahlin or Hughes for example but the Habs strength is both quality and quantity.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as well. But judging by your standards the Avs have a ton more Grade A prospects and Fringe grade A prospects than I thought....

 

[Habs Halifax]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as well. But judging by your standards the Avs have a ton more Grade A prospects and Fringe grade A prospects than I thought....

List them like I did and stick your neck out... List them like blue chip, fringe blue chip, grade A, fringe grade A, ect. I know the Avs prospects well. I dare you to list them. Bet you will realize you have a few good ones and then drop off after that.

Habs have both quality and quantity and positive development trends with several.

 

[blankall]

Stone came signed. Hall won't. There is absolutely no point in discussing Bowen either way.

No one knows what Hall's goals/intentions are yet. If he wants out of NJ, he is likely looking for stability and a spot on a contender. Why wouldn't he agree to be signed, if the right situation came along?

 

[JoemAvs]

List them like I did and stick your neck out... List them like blue chip, fringe blue chip, grade A, fringe grade A, ect. I know the Avs prospects well. I dare you to list them. Bet you will realize you have a few good ones and then drop off after that.

Habs have both quality and quantity and positive development trends with several.

This is the Hall thread not the I think you are way overrating your prospects thread. Lets just say that I did not even consider Timmins a legit A prospect and he is outscoring Poehling and IMO has significantly more upside. And according to your standards the likes of Kaut, Bowers, Zhuravlyov, Kovalenko, Ranta, etc. could be all considered as fringe A level prospect which is a bit insane to me. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is the Hall thread not the I think you are way overrating your prospects thread. Lets just say that I did not even consider Timmins a legit A prospect and he is outscoring Poehling and IMO has significantly more upside. And according to your standards the likes of Kaut, Bowers, Zhuravlyov, Kovalenko, Ranta, etc. could be all considered as fringe A level prospect which is a bit insane to me. Lets just leave it at that.

Timmins is 21, Poehling is 20. And I'm not looking at small sample sizes only. I'm looking at overall body of work and accomplishments. Poehling is similar to Newhook in terms of value. Timmins is similar to Fleury and I wasn't talking about anyone older than 20 either

So because Byram has 17 pts and on pace for 47 pts where he had 71 last year, does not mean he is no longer a blue chip prospect? This is how you are treating Poehling today as a Grade A because of a 30% AHL season where he turned pro for the first time.

Plus you didn't list them like I ask you too.... you afraid to stick your neck out to back up the BS you are spitting out of your mouth? I wasn't afraid to show you, why are you avoiding it?

 

[JoemAvs]

Timmins is 21, Poehling is 20. And I'm not looking at small sample sizes only. I'm looking at overall body of work and accomplishments. Poehling is similar to Newhook in terms of value. Timmins is similar to Fleury and I wasn't talking about anyone older than 20 either

So because Byram has 17 pts and on pace for 47 pts where he had 71 last year, does not mean he is no longer a blue chip prospect? This is how you are treating Poehling today as a Grade A.

Nope it is because I never considered Poehling to have top line potential. His slow start only manifests that. If you say blue chip prospects are good bets to be star players, A level means that these guys atleast have top pairing or top line potential. Otherwise your ranking makes no sense.
Newhook does have top line potential. Poehling does not. Poehling is the safer bet to turn into a decent NHL player, though.
Timmins is far ahead of Fleury as a prospect but due to his health issues over the last 19 months a bit of a risk. One I gladly take as an Avs fan but still. Byram certainly has top pairing potential+ slow start or not. It remains to be seen if he can get there but yeah.

So can we stop derailing this thread now because of something I already knew (that there is no rational discussion to be had with you when it comes to the Habs) and get back to topic?


I wonder if Shero will fire Hynes first and wait with moving Hall giving him time for a resurgence under a new coach (which is somewhat likely IMO) or whether he will decide to pull the trigger quickly to divert the narrative away from Hynes and decrease the pressure on him to fire his coach..

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nope it is because I never considered Poehling to have top line potential. His slow start only manifests that. If you say blue chip prospects are good bets to be star players, A level means that these guys atleast have top pairing or top line potential. Otherwise your ranking makes no sense.
Newhook does have top line potential. Poehling does not. Poehling is the safer bet to turn into a decent NHL player, though.
Timmins is far ahead of Fleury as a prospect but due to his health issues over the last 19 months a bit of a risk. One I gladly take as an Avs fan but still. Byram certainly has top pairing potential+ slow start or not. It remains to be seen if he can get there but yeah.

So can we stop derailing this thread now because of something I already knew (that there is no rational discussion to be had with you when it comes to the Habs) and get back to topic?


I wonder if Shero will fire Hynes first and wait with moving Hall giving him time for a resurgence under a new coach (which is somewhat likely IMO) or whether he will decide to pull the trigger quickly to divert the narrative away from Hynes and decrease the pressure on him to fire his coach..

I have Poehling as a 2C or 3C but his high ceiling of being a 2C is still grade A to me. Top line talent is blue chip in my books.

Blue Chip: Top Forward line, or Top Pairing D potential

Grade A: NHL starting goalie, Top 6F, or Top 4D potential

Grade B: Back-up goalie, Bottom 6F, Bottom 4D potential

Grade C: Long shot to make the NHL

Then you can differentiate with + and - with each category to separate some who are at the high or low points within each category.

Byram and Caufield are fringe Blue Chips IMO. Newhook and Poehling are grade A's. Dahlin, Hughes, Makar are blue chip guys cause they are still young but proven NHL talent producing very well.

 

[72hockey guy]

hall has said multiple times that its a case by case basis, that he's not signing With ANYONE, unless they deal with him first. so all of this is moot

a team will have to approach NJ to talk to him yes, but Hall holds all the cards

 

[blankall]

I think the Habs won't touch the pending UFA price but the Islanders and Avs can top that offer. Flames should not trade their 1st any more than the Habs IMO but all the power to you if you would. Flames are 19th at the moment and if you miss the playoffs and win a lottery pick or get a top 10 pick, what happens if you have another disappointing year next year? You could look like a fool like the Sens did with Duchene.

Flames had a great season last year but what about prior years? Do you really think your that close to being a cup contender with Hall coming as a Pending UFA?

I think that offer can certainly be beaten. Hall basically solves Calgary's main problem though, by giving them an additional consistent scoring option.

Hall is a legit franchise player. He's capable of generating his own offence and driving a first line. He would have a dramatic impact on any team he goes to. The fact that he happens to almost perfectly (he's not a RW) fit Calgary's needs, is a definite plus.

In past years the main issue was goaltending, but Rittich looks amazing this year. This year the issue is primary scoring, which Hall could solve.

 

[Habs Halifax]

hall has said multiple times that its a case by case basis, that he's not signing With ANYONE, unless they deal with him first. so all of this is moot

a team will have to approach NJ to talk to him yes, but Hall holds all the cards

100% accurate. Hall drives the boat on the extension. The only think the Devils can do is choose the best futures package they get based on the bids from each team.

 

[blankall]

1) My apologies on thinking you were a Flames fan. I assumed

2) Yes, I saw that you put top 10 protection and I talked about what happens if it is a top 10 pick and the Flames keep it. Then what? Are they comfortable with the following draft not being a lottery pick without protection? I think not.

3) Based on how old Giordano is and with Monahan and Gaudreau needing new deals in a few seasons, an argument can be made their window is closing if they are worried about UFA's walking. That's what the Sens GM though a few years ago when he was desperate for Duchene and I bet they regret that today!

What happened to the Sens was totally unique. The owner came out and stated that he wouldn't pay for a competitive team. The Sens had a competitive core to build around, but then let them walk. Stone and Karlsson alone would have been enough to build around.

 

[LeonDraisaitl]

I have Poehling as a 2C or 3C but his high ceiling of being a 2C is still grade A to me. Top line talent is blue chip in my books.

Blue Chip: Top Forward line, or Top Pairing D potential

Grade A: NHL starting goalie, Top 6F, or Top 4D potential

Grade B: Back-up goalie, Bottom 6F, Bottom 4D potential

Grade C: Long shot to make the NHL

Then you can differentiate with + and - with each category to separate some who are at the high or low points within each category.

Byram and Caufield are fringe Blue Chips IMO. Newhook and Poehling are grade A's. Dahlin, Hughes, Makar are blue chip guys cause they are still young but proven NHL talent producing very well.

read this entire thread and wanted to tell you specifically

holy shit dude

 

[Habs Halifax]

What happened to the Sens was totally unique. The owner came out and stated that he wouldn't pay for a competitive team. The Sens had a competitive core to build around, but then let them walk. Stone and Karlsson alone would have been enough to build around.

Sens management were fools cause they thought they were closer to a contender than they actually were. Why? Cause they went on a magical run the previous season of playoffs and that was their bench mark they used. It could very similar to the Flames situation today if they trade their 1st for short term gains. Go look at where the Flames were in years prior to last season. Would you consider them a legit cup contender and adding Hall puts them in serious cup contender status for this playoffs?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think that offer can certainly be beaten. Hall basically solves Calgary's main problem though, by giving them an additional consistent scoring option.

Hall is a legit franchise player. He's capable of generating his own offence and driving a first line. He would have a dramatic impact on any team he goes to. The fact that he happens to almost perfectly (he's not a RW) fit Calgary's needs, is a definite plus.

In past years the main issue was goaltending, but Rittich looks amazing this year. This year the issue is primary scoring, which Hall could solve.

If I was a Flames fan, I would want nothing to do with trading a 1st for short term gains.

 

[Habs Halifax]

read this entire thread and wanted to tell you specifically

holy **** dude

Not sure if you agree or disagree but if you disagree, you need to re-list it with your own definitions. Like I told the last poster, I stuck my neck out and provided my evidence. So if you disagree, stick your neck out to back up your opinion like I did or shut up.

I'm assuming "hole shit dude" means you don't agree. . My feelings are hurt if that's what you meant.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

no superstars want to sign with Montreal, unfortunately it's been a good 10 years since we've had a legit superstar signing (thinking of Kovalev here)

 

[themelkman]

I think if Hall is a pure Rental Doug Wilson jumps on it. Hes pretty great at getting guys as rentals then talking them into a deal later. And if not then the sharks get a great forward to make one more run at the cup

 

[RoyIsALegend]

no superstars want to sign with Montreal, unfortunately it's been a good 10 years since we've had a legit superstar signing (thinking of Kovalev here)

You traded for Kovalev from the Rangers.

 

[blankall]

Sens management were fools cause they thought they were closer to a contender than they actually were. Why? Cause they went on a magical run the previous season of playoffs and that was their bench mark they used. It could very similar to the Flames situation today if they trade their 1st for short term gains. Go look at where the Flames were in years prior to last season. Would you consider them a legit cup contender and adding Hall puts them in serious cup contender status for this playoffs?

Once again it's not similar to the Flames situation. The Flames haven't declared they have no intention on paying their stars and then trading them away. That's what went wrong in Ottawa. It had nothing to do with the team they had. It was the owner.

Also the trade called for a top 10 protected 1st. Even without Hall and everything going wrong, Calgary is still 1 point out of a playoff spot. Ottawa finished dead last. This is a horrible example that does not relate to Calgary's situation in any way.

Calgary has a short window of a guaranteed signed Gaudreau and a prime Giordano they need to take advantage of.

 

[72hockey guy]

calary is one of the two places see as most likely for Hall. the other i see is colorado, as a heavy favorite. but you are correct that the flames have a short window of a guaranteed signed Gaudreau and a prime Giordano they need to take advantage of.

they unlike other places have a good defense and enough offense to contend for a cup. the big questiois can Rittich hold up.....I thik they need a Halak or a Greiss as insurance

 

[blankall]

calary is one of the two places see as most likely for Hall. the other i see is colorado, as a heavy favorite. but you are correct that the flames have a short window of a guaranteed signed Gaudreau and a prime Giordano they need to take advantage of.

they unlike other places have a good defense and enoggh offense to contend for a cup. the big questiois can Rittich hold up.....I thik they need a Halak or a Greiss as insurance

Having the 1-2 punch of Gaudreau and Hall would make a big difference too. The major game plan against Calgary is just double team Gaudreau with your most physical shut down guys and it will have a major stifling effect on Calgary's offence.

People also talk about Calgary, like they are in contention for a lottery pick. They are currently one game over .500 and looking at a pick in the 12-18 range. I'd gladly trade that to take a run with the present core.