Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[PKs Broken Stick]

If rossi is gone by then.. Maybe. Else nah

Sorry but, no...sergachev is much better than an unknown at #7.

 

[TBF1972]

well our owners just shelled out for Doc Rivers for the Sixers so hopefully that doesn't eat up our money for this offseason!

doc rivers is hugely overrated imo. off-topic.

 

[TBF1972]

I think we can pry Dobson away if we sweeten the deal. Maybe offer Pick 20 + Palms for Dobson + Leddy.

no chance. nyi values dobson extremely high.

 

[beekay414]

Hypothetical....

Tampa comes to us and says that we could have Sergachev straight up for 7th overall

what do you say?

Easy yes

 

[beekay414]

I would honestly do Sergachev for #7 and Boqvist or Walsh. I'm not running away from a true potential #1 LHD.

I do apologize because I've been out drinking but I don't think I'm too far wrong.

 

[Billdo]

Yesterday's Spittin Chiclets had Brendan Lemieux as it's guest. He spoke about the year he was drafted and how he was supposed to go late first and Lou told him during his interview that he wasn't going to be there when NJ picked so they could just talk. Draft day comes and San Jose and NJ were there and he really wanted to go somewhere his dad played. He said when NJ passed on him he was absolutely dejected and pissed. His dad, also his agent, basically told him he'd go in the first and he was mad he didn't. Claude told him in the morning Buffalo was going to take him and he told him to "f*** off". I remember a bunch of us wanted him. Interesting little tidbit.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Hypothetical....

Tampa comes to us and says that we could have Sergachev straight up for 7th overall

what do you say?

You pull the trigger ASAP before Julien Brisebois changes his mind.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Sabres fans are keen to move on from Montour

That's because Montour stinks. He was a pretty hyped up prospect but hasn't delivered. They gave up a lot for him and he's not going to be a core piece moving forward so they desperately want to recoup assets.

 

[tailfins]

That's because Montour stinks. He was a pretty hyped up prospect but hasn't delivered. They gave up a lot for him and he's not going to be a core piece moving forward so they desperately want to recoup assets.

Montour is actually a few months older than Severson. Pretty shocking.

I’m not against picking Montour up for cheap, but he’s not really what the Devils need. He’s a right shot bottom pair D. That’s not what the Devils are trying to find right now.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

I would be all over Sergachev if he is availble and we dont have to give up Bratt or Ty Smith. #7 and retained Will butcher for Sergachev and a cap dump? Gives them a bottom 4 LHD for 1.6 a year for two years and an entry level player to play in a year or two.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Yesterday's Spittin Chiclets had Brendan Lemieux as it's guest. He spoke about the year he was drafted and how he was supposed to go late first and Lou told him during his interview that he wasn't going to be there when NJ picked so they could just talk. Draft day comes and San Jose and NJ were there and he really wanted to go somewhere his dad played. He said when NJ passed on him he was absolutely dejected and pissed. His dad, also his agent, basically told him he'd go in the first and he was mad he didn't. Claude told him in the morning Buffalo was going to take him and he told him to "f*** off". I remember a bunch of us wanted him. Interesting little tidbit.

We drafted Quennville

 

[AfroThunder396]

When we look at guys like Montour, Skjei, Hanafin, etc - we are asking ourselves two questions:

1.) Would they make us better right now?

Yes, absolutely. These guys are far better than Mueller, Carrick, Mermis, Claesson, maybe even Butcher. Replacing a #7 guy with a #5 guy is by definition an improvement and makes your team better.

2.) Are they core pieces that are worth giving up premium assets to obtain?

No, absolutely not. Being better than Mirco Mueller isn't a selling point. We can find improvements for these guys internally, on waivers, through UFA, and minor trades. There is no justification for spending 1st round picks on guys who max out as a #4 defenseman when we are so grossly starved for high end talent at every position.

Sergachev? Elite player. Dunn? A core piece. Those other guys we're settling for slight improvements while giving up assets we can't afford to give up.

 

[Offseason Champs]

Hypothetical....

Tampa comes to us and says that we could have Sergachev straight up for 7th overall

what do you say?

Take it and run

 

[Nocashstyle]

When we look at guys like Montour, Skjei, Hanafin, etc - we are asking ourselves two questions:

1.) Would they make us better right now?

Yes, absolutely. These guys are far better than Mueller, Carrick, Mermis, Claesson, maybe even Butcher. Replacing a #7 guy with a #5 guy is by definition an improvement and makes your team better.

2.) Are they core pieces that are worth giving up premium assets to obtain?

No, absolutely not. Being better than Mirco Mueller isn't a selling point. We can find improvements for these guys internally, on waivers, through UFA, and minor trades. There is no justification for spending 1st round picks on guys who max out as a #4 defenseman when we are so grossly starved for high end talent at every position.

Sergachev? Elite player. Dunn? A core piece. Those other guys we're settling for slight improvements while giving up assets we can't afford to give up.

Not sure how you can lump Hanafin in the “slight improvement” group but Dunn as a “core piece.”

 

[Oneiro]

When we look at guys like Montour, Skjei, Hanafin, etc - we are asking ourselves two questions:

2.) Are they core pieces that are worth giving up premium assets to obtain?

No, absolutely not. Being better than Mirco Mueller isn't a selling point. We can find improvements for these guys internally, on waivers, through UFA, and minor trades. There is no justification for spending 1st round picks on guys who max out as a #4 defenseman when we are so grossly starved for high end talent at every position.

Sergachev? Elite player. Dunn? A core piece. Those other guys we're settling for slight improvements while giving up assets we can't afford to give up.

Totally agree. Would much rather shoot higher and add to these picks for a true solution. People are far too in love with draft stock. Incredible how much status lingers, regardless of results.

Via Cordell:

"Noah Hanifin has been a disappointment in Calgary. I don’t think there’s much room for debate about that.

He is no further along offensively than he was a few years ago. His points per game output this past season was the lowest since his rookie campaign. And it’s not as if his defensive play makes up for it. More nights than not Hanifin severely blows coverage(s) in the defensive zone and he is much too prone to head scratching mistakes. There’s a reason he’s worth only +0.2 Goals Above Replacement over his two seasons in Calgary, according to EvolvingHockey.com. He just doesn’t move the needle at either end of the ice.

Yes, he’s 23. Yes, he’s an awesome skater. Yes, he has tools. But he always leaves you wanting more and, now 400+ games (playoffs included) into his NHL career, I doubt that’s going to change."​

 

[AfroThunder396]

Not sure how you can lump Hanafin in the “slight improvement” group but Dunn as a “core piece.”

Hanafin has shown a lot more and not in a good way. 5 seasons, 389 games and he's capped out at 32 points in a season. Dunn is the same age and hit 35 points in just his second season, and is significantly better in his own zone.

Hanafin had an xGF% of 49.9%. Dunn had an xGF% of 53.1%. Dunn's Corsi and Fenwick are much better as well despite having worse zone starts. Hanafin has plateaued and looks like nothing more than a slightly inferior Severson clone, whereas Dunn has already surpassed him continues to get better every season.

There's a reason Carolina traded Hanafin only two years after drafting him in the top-5. He's not that great. We would be trading for his draft pedigree from 5 years ago and not his actual on-ice impact, which is a mid-pairing guy that needs a babysitter.

 

[Billdo]

We drafted Quennville

Yuuuuuup.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Hanafin has shown a lot more and not in a good way. 5 seasons, 389 games and he's capped out at 32 points in a season. Dunn is the same age and hit 35 points in just his second season, and is significantly better in his own zone.

Hanafin had an xGF% of 49.9%. Dunn had an xGF% of 53.1%. Dunn's Corsi and Fenwick are much better as well despite having worse zone starts. Hanafin has plateaued and looks like nothing more than a slightly inferior Severson clone, whereas Dunn has already surpassed him continues to get better every season.

There's a reason Carolina traded Hanafin only two years after drafting him in the top-5. He's not that great. We would be trading for his draft pedigree from 5 years ago and not his actual on-ice impact, which is a mid-pairing guy that needs a babysitter.

Every time I watch Hanafin he’s looked rock solid. It seems unlikely he’s every a really #1 and living up to his draft spot, but he’s a bonafide top 4 and only 23.

Dunn looked like a stud in 19, but didn’t really stick out one way or the other in STL games I watched this year...for a defenseman that’s not necessarily always a bad thing though. But a lot Blue fans on the main board also seem to be more than willing to let him go for the 18th pick and small add which is a bit of a red flag to me tbh, especially if Petro is all but gone.

 

[MichaelJ]

I would honestly do Sergachev for #7 and Boqvist or Walsh. I'm not running away from a true potential #1 LHD.

I do apologize because I've been out drinking but I don't think I'm too far wrong.

Id be willing to add as well.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Totally agree. Would much rather shoot higher and add to these picks for a true solution. People are far too in love with draft stock. Incredible how much status lingers, regardless of results.

Via Cordell:

"Noah Hanifin has been a disappointment in Calgary. I don’t think there’s much room for debate about that.

He is no further along offensively than he was a few years ago. His points per game output this past season was the lowest since his rookie campaign. And it’s not as if his defensive play makes up for it. More nights than not Hanifin severely blows coverage(s) in the defensive zone and he is much too prone to head scratching mistakes. There’s a reason he’s worth only +0.2 Goals Above Replacement over his two seasons in Calgary, according to EvolvingHockey.com. He just doesn’t move the needle at either end of the ice.

Yes, he’s 23. Yes, he’s an awesome skater. Yes, he has tools. But he always leaves you wanting more and, now 400+ games (playoffs included) into his NHL career, I doubt that’s going to change."​

I view him as the DMan version of Zacha from the 2015 draft. He is a replacement level NHL player and he is 23.

 

[Nubmer6]

Every time I watch Hanafin he’s looked rock solid. It seems unlikely he’s every a really #1 and living up to his draft spot, but he’s a bonafide top 4 and only 23.

Dunn looked like a stud in 19, but didn’t really stick out one way or the other in STL games I watched this year...for a defenseman that’s not necessarily always a bad thing though. But a lot Blue fans on the main board also seem to be more than willing to let him go for the 18th pick and small add which is a bit of a red flag to me tbh, especially if Petro is all but gone.

Dunn reminds me of Shattenkirk when he went UFA. A lot of fans of other teams viewing him as a savior and a 1st pairing D while Blues fans thought he was a 2nd pairing at most. Not saying that's a bad player to have, just saying some may have him over-valued.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Every time I watch Hanafin he’s looked rock solid. It seems unlikely he’s every a really #1 and living up to his draft spot, but he’s a bonafide top 4 and only 23.

Dunn looked like a stud in 19, but didn’t really stick out one way or the other in STL games I watched this year...for a defenseman that’s not necessarily always a bad thing though. But a lot Blue fans on the main board also seem to be more than willing to let him go for the 18th pick and small add which is a bit of a red flag to me tbh, especially if Petro is all but gone.

So is Will Butcher. A #4 defenseman is not worth a 1st round pick. He has not improved one lick since he got to Calgary.

St. Louis doesn't want to trade Dunn. It's a Palmieri situation, they can't afford to keep him AND re-sign the rest of their core. If Pietrangelo leaves then there's no need to move him as they can almost certainly find a taker for Bozak and/or Steen.

To me it's far more alarming that Hanafin, a former top-5 pick, is on the verge of getting traded twice in his first five seasons. Young talented defensemen are the most premium assets in the league and the fact that TWO teams have already given up on him should be a major concern.

 

[Nocashstyle]

So is Will Butcher. A #4 defenseman is not worth a 1st round pick. He has not improved one lick since he got to Calgary.

St. Louis doesn't want to trade Dunn. It's a Palmieri situation, they can't afford to keep him AND re-sign the rest of their core. If Pietrangelo leaves then there's no need to move him as they can almost certainly find a taker for Bozak and/or Steen.

To me it's far more alarming that Hanafin, a former top-5 pick, is on the verge of getting traded twice in his first five seasons. Young talented defensemen are the most premium assets in the league and the fact that TWO teams have already given up on him should be a major concern.

That’s news to me.

I’m also not advocating trading #7 for Hanafin or anything. Dougie Hamilton also got traded twice in his first 6 seasons. Not saying Hanafin is close to Hamilton...but you can see my point. I think some fall into the same trap that fans of other teams do for Zacha. Not living up to draft position /= bad NHLer.

 

[StevenToddIves]

When we look at guys like Montour, Skjei, Hanafin, etc - we are asking ourselves two questions:

1.) Would they make us better right now?

Yes, absolutely. These guys are far better than Mueller, Carrick, Mermis, Claesson, maybe even Butcher. Replacing a #7 guy with a #5 guy is by definition an improvement and makes your team better.

2.) Are they core pieces that are worth giving up premium assets to obtain?

No, absolutely not. Being better than Mirco Mueller isn't a selling point. We can find improvements for these guys internally, on waivers, through UFA, and minor trades. There is no justification for spending 1st round picks on guys who max out as a #4 defenseman when we are so grossly starved for high end talent at every position.

Sergachev? Elite player. Dunn? A core piece. Those other guys we're settling for slight improvements while giving up assets we can't afford to give up.

I agree with your sentiment but Noah Hanifin is a better player than Vince Dunn.

 

[AfroThunder396]

That’s news to me.

I’m also not advocating trading #7 for Hanafin or anything. Dougie Hamilton also got traded twice in his first 6 seasons. Not saying Hanafin is close to Hamilton...but you can see my point. I think some fall into the same trap that fans of other teams do for Zacha. Not living up to draft position /= bad NHLer.

Would you give up #18 or #20 for Zacha though? That's my point. If they're a UFA and I can sign them for only cap or swap them for a change of scenery guy then sure, but the reward does not justify the cost for these particular players. There are cheaper ways to get a #4 defenseman.

I see your point and am not opposed to giving up one of our 1sts for a young roster player that can help immediately, I'm just saying we need to set our sights higher.