Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Forge]

at the trade deadline, I would think that we would net that type of return quite easily

offseason is different though

The report was that Kreider was going to get a first if he got shipped off, so I think that it's very likely that Palms would get one. I know teams have been reticent about it, but I think a certain cache of player still commands that sort of deadline package, and I would think that Palms would be that sort.

 

[Forge]

I wonder what happens with Vatanen in free agency. If the market for him collapses because of his injury concerns plus economy concerns because of corona, you might be able to get some value.

I was opposed to bringing him back but if he could be had on a < 4 year deal, I wouldn’t mind the depth.

Toronto needs to find money, I think that would be a good fit. If Vats is in on a < 4 years deal though, I'm definitely in on that.

 

[NJDevs26]

The report was that Kreider was going to get a first if he got shipped off, so I think that it's very likely that Palms would get one. I know teams have been reticent about it, but I think a certain cache of player still commands that sort of deadline package, and I would think that Palms would be that sort.

I think a lot more playoff teams would be willing to trade 1’s this year with how screwed up the draft will be, conversely I’d be in lot less of a rush to trade for one.

 

[Forge]

Then it's also a matter of if you don't want to pay Palmieri well then who do you want to pay? Some people would have concerns over paying Pietrangelo man, not that he'd come here but we have so much cap space and you can't be that picky.

This is never a problem. With the cap space problems people have, finding someone to pay wouldn't be an issue. You'll never get an agreement from the fans on who that should be though. The bigger question is, would ownership cap our ability to spend during this time. I don't think that will be the case, but I'd be lying if I said it was something I hadn't thought about

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

The money on his deal wouldn't be an issue until the very end which who knows what the landscape will be at that time anyway. At some point we have to start paying for guys NOW without worrying about 5-6 years down the road. I'm not saying to do what other teams in cap hell have done, but nobody gets a perfect deal in today's world unless your Mackinnon or Pasta.

I don’t understand why you’re so concerned about our cap situation in 5-6 years and we don’t take the precious 4 years into account.

We need to support our two young studs now and resigning Palmieri is a no brainer, unless we get a package that knocks our socks off.

When are we going to start thinking like winners? We’re collecting solid assets and we need to take advantage of our cap situation ASAP.

I honestly think we can be competitive in 2 to 3 years maximum.

 

[Pitaya]

You pay Palmieri - its that simple

You cant fire your GM, coaches, and trade your best player and two other glue guys in Vatanen and Greene, trade a likeable enforcer in Simmonds - and then move a native and locker room guy in Palmieri and not expect to have problems with the team both on ice and off ice

 

[Cheddabombs]

I think the timeline is already 2-3 years, tbh.

Yeah it might be, but you get what I'm saying. Trading away our best established goal scorer pushes our timeline back and it's difficult to replace.

 

[Billdo]

I don’t understand why you’re so concerned about our cap situation in 5-6 years and we don’t take the precious 4 years into account.

We need to support our two young studs now and resigning Palmieri is a no brainer, unless we get a package that knocks our socks off.

When are we going to start thinking like winners? We’re collecting solid assets and we need to take advantage of our cap situation ASAP.

I honestly think we can be competitive in 2 to 3 years maximum.

Um, that's what I'm saying. We cannot be worried about the back end of deals when we need to start trying to be competitive now. Trading anyone worth anything because they're 30 is foolish if you're trying to win. I think you maybe misread what I said or I didn't convey it clear enough but what you're saying is essentially what I was saying.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Here is an even better reason to re-sign Palms

we can likely afford Palmieri's salary increase by just the money that drops off the cap from Cammalleri's buyout ($1.67 million left next year)

 

[JK3]

We should just install a Logan's Run carousel at center ice of the Rock at the end of every season on fan appreciation night. Any players that are 30 years old get sucked up to the rafters and *poof* . . . draft picks and prospects rain down in sparkling glory.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I don't see this team as bottoming out again next year. They have Hughes and Hischier who should be getting better. We want Blackwood to improve. Subban hopefully comes in with a reinvigorated work ethic. Smart trades on draft day can use some of our picks to maybe get help on D.

Team should be drafting in the 10s next year, not in contention for first overall. Therefore I say keep Palms as a vet presence and hopefully season after next we can be a good playoff team.

 

[Forge]

We should just install a Logan's Run carousel at center ice of the Rock at the end of every season on fan appreciation night. Any players that are 30 years old get sucked up to the rafters and *poof* . . . draft picks and prospects rain down in sparkling glory.

Yep, that's what everyone is saying.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

You pay Palmieri - its that simple

You cant fire your GM, coaches, and trade your best player and two other glue guys in Vatanen and Greene, trade a likeable enforcer in Simmonds - and then move a native and locker room guy in Palmieri and not expect to have problems with the team both on ice and off ice

I dont want to move palms but moving Hall, Vatanen, Greene and Simmonds were no brainers. Blake Coleman on the other hand was a move that some people could actually have a gripe against but we got so much for him. We also didnt trade our best player, Nico got a 7 year extension.

 

[Forge]

I actually find it weird that people keep going back to the actual dollar amount of the salary as opposed to the length of the deal. I think some of the people looking to move on from Palms right now may be more amenable to keeping him if you told them you could do so on a three year deal, or maybe 4. I mean, it's the length of the deal that bugs me more than anything. I wish this were like the NFL where you could vary cap hits, but obviously the NHL Gms ran crazy with that idea.

Yes, there will always be that small cadre of people who are militant in cashing him out now or whatever, but that's a pretty limited subsect I would like to think.

Look at how this board eviscerated the flyers Kevin Hayes deal and then think about how it's not out of the realm of possibility that Palms gets a similar one. Maybe its only 6 years instead of 7, but that doesn't really make that much better. Or maybe it's a little closer to the Chris Kreider deal which was only 6.5 which is certainly better than the AAV of Kevin Hayes.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I am still onboard with signing Palms but at the very least, you keep him until the trade deadline

you'd get a much better return for a pending UFA at that time than you would this summer

 

[Forge]

Contract structure is very important with Palms in my opinion. If you're going to sign him long term (5 or 6 years, I don't think 7 is likely; possible, not likely), the last two years have to be heavy heavy signing bonus in the second to last year with a low salary, and then just a very low 1m salary in the last season. Pay him his money upfront in the early years, do not give him a full no trade or no movement clause in the last two years.

You have to be able to stay flexible with it. Maybe by then, we are a contender and you can ship off a late first for someone to take on the contract if necessary. You absolutely have to leave yourself outs if he becomes an anchor (which given his age, will likely be the case)

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the way I see it is these teams always find a way to get out of bad contracts, whether it be "retirement", trading the contract with an asset, etc.

Like I said, I am not advocating giving Palmieri a $7 x 7 deal or anything like that, but I think giving him 4 x $7 or 5 x $6.5 or something like that is completely fine (if he'd take that of course)

 

[Pitaya]

the way I see it is these teams always find a way to get out of bad contracts, whether it be "retirement", trading the contract with an asset, etc.

Like I said, I am not advocating giving Palmieri a $7 x 7 deal or anything like that, but I think giving him 4 x $7 or 5 x $6.5 or something like that is completely fine (if he'd take that of course)

i dont see Kyle making a scene over an extra year or mil. If he wants to stay home and just 'relax' in terms of the NHL lifestyle, then im sure he will ask for what he is deserving of and not make much fuss about it. I also dont think Fitzgerald will short-change him either

 

[ScottyK]

this offseason is going to be wild

especially if they really do start free agency the same weekend of the draft. Can you imagine?

I can't wait

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He is an elite point producer at 5v5. Yes, elite. Despite shady usage (at times) and the fact Gusev played for a team that couldn’t score, he consistently piled up the points. Gusev led the team in scoring at 5v5 and was as efficient as they come, mustering up 2.29 points per 60 minutes played. That was more than the likes of Alex Ovechkin, Mitch Marner, Mathew Barzal, Mikko Rantanen and Patrice Bergeron. For a little more perspective, it put him in the same ballpark as Taylor Hall during his MVP season (he averaged 2.42/60). Gusev was that good.

His 5v5 offense was driven from playmaking. Gusev was a primary assist machine, ranking 6th in the NHL on a per 60 minute basis. 6th. His most frequent linemates were Travis Zajac, Blake Coleman, Pavel Zacha and Jesper Bratt. There is some talent in there but certainly not the who’s who of offensive players. For him to create so many goals without elite shooting talent around him is remarkable.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I think a lot more playoff teams would be willing to trade 1’s this year with how screwed up the draft will be, conversely I’d be in lot less of a rush to trade for one.

People keep saying this but I look at it the other way. Normally you are trading for a 1st in the range of say #18 and up when giving up good players to playoff teams. With the draft being Strange next year because of players having potentially less playing time and with scouts having less time to see them develop, I think that draft will really show which scouts can see development curves and where a player could be in a few years. Meaning with 2nd half 1st rounders, we may find a top 5 talent. Basically, I know it could work the other way around too but I’m not afraid of that draft and using picks.

 

[Forge]

If you can only sign one - Gusev or Palms, who are you signing?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If you can only sign one - Gusev or Palms, who are you signing?

depends on the contract for both, but if you are telling me that they get equal deals, I would probably pick Gusev and then trade Palmieri at next year's trade deadline

 

[My3Sons]

We should just install a Logan's Run carousel at center ice of the Rock at the end of every season on fan appreciation night. Any players that are 30 years old get sucked up to the rafters and *poof* . . . draft picks and prospects rain down in sparkling glory.

Now that’s an old reference and a good one.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Um, that's what I'm saying. We cannot be worried about the back end of deals when we need to start trying to be competitive now. Trading anyone worth anything because they're 30 is foolish if you're trying to win. I think you maybe misread what I said or I didn't convey it clear enough but what you're saying is essentially what I was saying.

My bad, I misread your post!