Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

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Ripshot 43

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Jul 21, 2010
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You'd really have to be crazy to not resign Gusev. And that's with the hope that Gusev would even want to resign here.

He had 44 pts in 64 games with a bad team and while having difficulty at the beginning getting both points and ice time. He finally gets a coach that doesn't hate Euros and he literally goes on a PPG pace.

Beyond anything, I think the Coleman trade happened because of what management saw in Gusev. They realized that we have a big time producer along with Hischier and Hughes and realized that the team can trade a forward in order to improve the defense down the line with additional picks.

We need more scoring added to the team and subtracting Palms or Gusev won’t help that.

I don’t think Coleman being traded had anything to do with Gusev, it was more to do with being offered what was essentially 2 1st round picks for him.
 

MadDevil

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Yeah I think the Coleman deal was more of a too good to turn down situation than anything else. Plus I'm not sure trading one of your best goal scorers because you've found a good playmaker really makes much sense.
 
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My3Sons

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I think the Butcher issue is the same issue that Lovejoy presented. You can’t block your third pair on a developing team. Guys on your team for three or more seasons have to be able to play on a second pair. Having them play well against other teams’ bottom six guys means your rookies and seco d year guys have to play against top six players. That approach didn’t work under Hynes and I’m skeptical it will work under Ruff. If Butcher can’t reliably play on the second pair - especially considering the complete lack of competition - then he just isn’t a good fit for the team. A bad team needs to develop top four defenders and shelter them as necessary along the way. Butcher killing it on the third pair may hurt the team in the long run.

I’d like to think the flat cap will shake a couple of UFAs or trade targets out that are borderline top four guys (Dillon seems to be a name I’m seeing mentioned more and more) who can at least keep those spots warm while young players get third pair minutes. Just package Butcher with Wood who also needs to be able to consistently play third line minutes to be good enough to stick around. Again a bad team should have fourth line minutes available for developing players. To me the fourth line next year should be Merkley Kuokkanen BASTIAN McLeod and maybe Sharangovich or Maltsev. Rotate those guys based on who is playing well. Maybe one or more of them can carve out a real role. Wood and Butcher will both return something in a trade maybe even something decent in a package if a cap dump comes back to NJ.
 

beekay414

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Dillon-Subban
Dunn-Severson
Mueller/Butcher-Smith/Carrick

sign me the hell up.
Dunn and Severson together? Butcher and Smith together? Yeah, we'd be the Lindy Ruff Stars with those two pairings. Not sure what to do with Butcher in this scenario, assuming you add Dunn and Dillon but...

Dillon-Severson
Dunn-Subban
Mueller-Smith or Smith-Gudas (UFA signing if you want to play Smith on the left side)

makes way more sense. Like @Forge said, Butcher is a pain to work around. I don't know if you can pair Dunn with Smith but you certainly can't pair Butcher with Smith.
 

beekay414

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Are you kidding me? Hynes is the one who got Gusev going and put him in a position to succeed. Some of you guys just want to blame the coach but reality is no coach can make this team make the playoffs, its a weak NHL roster.

Gusev was terrible when he started...reality is he needed time to adjust. Hynes did a great job getting him going.

How does Coleman have anything to do with Gusev? They are not even close to similar players and play different roles.
What? Gusev had 32 points in 43 games under Nas and 12 points in 23 games under Hynes...
 
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Unknown Caller

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I’ll never for the life of me understand the desire of some to ship off Palms.

I think the reasoning is fairly easy to understand and is probably more rational than keeping him when you take emotion and feelings out of the decision.

Whether you agree with it or not, the argument for trading Palms this year isn’t all that complicated.
 
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Better Call Sal

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I think the reasoning is fairly easy to understand and is probably more rational than keeping him when you take emotion and feelings out of the decision.

This team currently lacks goal scorers more than virtually anything else. I get that people think it’s ideal to sell high on him, but extending Palms doesn’t harm us whatsoever and keeps the one proven consistent goal scorer the team has in the fold.
 

Unknown Caller

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This team currently lacks goal scorers more than virtually anything else. I get that people think it’s ideal to sell high on him, but extending Palms doesn’t harm us whatsoever and keeps the one proven consistent goal scorer the team has in the fold.

For starters, it harms us in that the opportunity cost comes at the expense of what would likely be a package similar to a 1st + prospect in exchange for Palmieri.

It also harms us in that we’re signing a player to what would likely be a deal in the range of 5 years for let’s say $6 million while his play declines. We won’t even be real contenders for another few seasons, so we’re paying a premium for maybe one or two more prime years while our team isn’t going anywhere anyway. Then when it’s time to really make moves and get aggressive, we’ll be handcuffed by that contract.
 
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jkrdevil

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You want to re-sign Palms for 1 or 2 years...fine. However, he is going to be a net negative player much faster than you think.
 

Better Call Sal

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For starters, it harms us in that the opportunity cost comes at the expense of what would likely be a package similar to a 1st + prospect in exchange for Palmieri.

It also harms us in that we’re signing a player to what would likely be a deal in the range of 5 years for let’s say $6 million while his play declines. We won’t even be real contenders for another few seasons, so we’re paying a premium for maybe one or two more prime years while our team isn’t going anywhere anyway. Then when it’s time to really make moves and get aggressive, we’ll be handcuffed by that contract.

A $6 million cap hit is barely a $1.5 million addition to his current cap hit on a team where we have zero cap issues and plenty of money coming off the books in the next couple of years in Zajac, Cory and probably Subban.

I know everyone is always infatuated by the potential of a return in a trade but at some point, you need guys who can play right now. And for us, we also REALLY need guys who can score. Trading Palms for futures likely puts even more pressure on our younger players to produce given no one comes close to replicating his goal scoring at the moment.

I just think it’s an unnecessary move at this time. We sold off plenty last year and acquired some quality prospects in Foote and Kuokkanen along with 3 firsts this year. Keep Palms and let them develop to hopefully take his role down the road. Moving on from Palms now for more futures puts an even bigger void in our lineup without any plan for who takes his place. Guys with his production aren’t exactly easy to acquire.

I don’t know. I think trading him now really waves the white flag for the next couple of years and adds a significant amount of pressure to Nico, Jack and Bratt. There really is no dire need to make that kind of trade right now.
 

RSeen

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What? Gusev had 32 points in 43 games under Nas and 12 points in 23 games under Hynes...
Are we going to ignore the fact that Gusev was adjusting in th early parts of the season? Obviously that had a negative implication on his production.

Near the end of the time with Hynes he started playing well. It did not start directly after Hynes was gone, so I don't see how Hynes can be blamed for his play early on.
 
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RSeen

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For starters, it harms us in that the opportunity cost comes at the expense of what would likely be a package similar to a 1st + prospect in exchange for Palmieri.

It also harms us in that we’re signing a player to what would likely be a deal in the range of 5 years for let’s say $6 million while his play declines. We won’t even be real contenders for another few seasons, so we’re paying a premium for maybe one or two more prime years while our team isn’t going anywhere anyway. Then when it’s time to really make moves and get aggressive, we’ll be handcuffed by that contract.
Exactly.

I can see the argument to resgin him but the opportunity cost and fact he is likley to be in decline when the contract kicks in and even further decline when we have our younger players in their prime should be a deterent to resigning him.
 

TheUnseenHand

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Gusev is just a really good player that took some time to adjust and managed to succeed in spite of both coaches last season in my opinion.
 
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TBF1972

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X - Hischier - Palmieri
Bratt/Gusev - Zacha - Gusev/Bratt
Killorn - Hughes - Bozak/Fischer
Kuokkanen - Zajac - Fischer/Bozak
Anderson

Dunn - Severson
Edmundson/Dillon/Zadorov - Severson
Butcher - Smith

Blackwood
Raanta
I am also a little down on Subban, but I still would give him a few minutes before double shifting Severson. :nod:
 
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TBF1972

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Zetterlund showing up to camp next year compared to all our tiny players

biggest-cow-steer-ever-in-australia-1.jpg
which one is zetterlund? i can just make out bahl.
 

MartyOwns

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keep palms, keep gusev. if i had to guess which current players won’t finish their contracts in devils jerseys, butcher and wood are at the top of the list
 
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FooteBahl

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keep palms, keep gusev. if i had to guess which current players won’t finish their contracts in devils jerseys, butcher and wood are at the top of the list
I’m hesitant to deal Wood until someone like Foote, Bastian or anyone with any size is ready. As much as he’s a bonehead, he’s pretty much our only winger over 6’1” with any grit.
 
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TBF1972

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Kind of where I stand. I mean, Saquon Barkley is an amazingly talented running back, I'm still never taking him #2 in a draft. Same for Zeke at #4. I wouldn't doubt their talent though, nor Askarov's. Just a personal preference.
With the reservation the board has for Askarov. I wonder, if it is the value of Askarov specifically or the goalie position as such. So who would trade MBW for NAS first (11OA), if such a deal would be on the table?
 

NJDevs26

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With the reservation the board has for Askarov. I wonder, if it is the value of Askarov specifically or the goalie position as such. So who would trade MBW for NAS first (11OA), if such a deal would be on the table?

Uh no, I’m not giving up what looks to be a solid NHL goalie at 23 for a pick just to boot the development curve back another five years.
 

TBF1972

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Uh no, I’m not giving up what looks to be a solid NHL goalie at 23 for a pick just to boot the development curve back another five years.
You wouldn't have to draft Askarov with 11th pick. You could snag e.g. Jack Quinn.
 
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