Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

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[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

just spitballing here....was messing around on CapFriendly for a mock offseason

TRADE Vancouver 1st to St. Louis for Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak, and St. Louis 2020 3rd (threw this out there on the trade board and the Blues fans seem to be OK with it)
TRADE New York Islanders 2021 2nd to Tampa Bay for Alex Killorn
TRADE Buffalo 2021 5th for Antti Raanta (cap dump), extend him for 2-3 years
TRADE Miles Wood anywhere for a mid round pick

SIGN Joel Edmundson (or Brendan Dillon) in free agency

Boqvist-Hischier-Palmieri
Gusev-Zacha-Bratt
Hughes-Bozak-Killorn (yes I know Hughes will be and should be a center, just stick with me)
Kuokkanen-Zajac-Anderson

Edmundson-Severson
Dunn-Subban
Butcher-T. Smith

Blackwood
Raanta

it isn't sexy, but this is an offseason I would be quite happy with. Getting a guy like Killorn will help add to the toughness, especially playing with Hughes

Still leaves us with two 1sts, two 3rds (1 potentially from CAR), and two 4ths this year as well

Some of the trades could be for different players of course..I just wanted to steer the discussion away from what was being discussed

 

[Buggsy]

Jim,

I think most people would agree that the Shero era was poor. He attempted to rebuild and retool and most of it ended up getting nowhere. We can argue back and forth about what he started with and all that but in the end Shero had his years and it failed.

I only really have one direct question to add. Do you believe that the organizational outlook is worse or better off than when the Shero era began?

 

[Nico Hischier]

Isn’t bozak a cap dump? Thought he was in the decline. I’m ok with Dunn and killorn. I really wanted edmundson before he went to Carolina. Since he has been a hurricane he has looked absolutely awful. I don’t think he would last on the first pair for us. I don’t really have an opinion on rantaa that’s a whatever for me. Overall it’s a pretty mediocre lineup that I’d rather just use our 3 draft picks and swing for the fences if we can’t do better.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Isn’t bozak a cap dump? Thought he was in the decline. I’m ok with Dunn and killorn. I really wanted edmundson before he went to Carolina. Since he has been a hurricane he has looked absolutely awful. I don’t think he would last on the first pair for us. I don’t really have an opinion on rantaa that’s a whatever for me. Overall it’s a pretty mediocre lineup that I’d rather just use our 3 draft picks and swing for the fences if we can’t do better.

Edmundson is not great but he is good in his own zone and good on the PK which are two things we are severely lacking

I'd rather have a surefire NHL DMan in Dunn and 2 other firsts rather than just 3 firsts.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Edmundson is not great but he is good in his own zone and good on the PK which are two things we are severely lacking

I'd rather have a surefire NHL DMan in Dunn and 2 other firsts rather than just 3 firsts.

Dunn is definitely at top 4 defenseman. My only gripe is that he is more of what we have already, undersized offensive minded and a bit of a mess in his own zone. This is according to blues fans description of him. So maybe he could be as good as Vatanen for us? Idk maybe we could just bring vats back in the off-season and keep the draft picks. I really want to get a big and decent defensive defenseman. We need some size back there. Also on edmundson he has really looked lost this year even in his own end. He does not look like the same player that he was in St. Louis to me

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’d rather just bring Andy Greene back for peanuts than give Edmundson a 4+ year deal.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Given the position of our extra 1sts (that is, not in the top-12) I definitely think one of them will be traded. There have been a lot of names dangled around as possibly available and we're uniquely suited to absorb large contracts.

Looking at the PK deal and I wonder if we could pull off something similar for William Nylander. Get a guy at a discount because we can take the whole contract and send them back zero cap. Something like Arizona's 1st + Anderson.

 

[R8Devs]

just spitballing here....was messing around on CapFriendly for a mock offseason

TRADE Vancouver 1st to St. Louis for Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak, and St. Louis 2020 3rd (threw this out there on the trade board and the Blues fans seem to be OK with it)
TRADE New York Islanders 2021 2nd to Tampa Bay for Alex Killorn
TRADE Buffalo 2021 5th for Antti Raanta (cap dump), extend him for 2-3 years
TRADE Miles Wood anywhere for a mid round pick

SIGN Joel Edmundson (or Brendan Dillon) in free agency

Boqvist-Hischier-Palmieri
Gusev-Zacha-Bratt
Hughes-Bozak-Killorn (yes I know Hughes will be and should be a center, just stick with me)
Kuokkanen-Zajac-Anderson

Edmundson-Severson
Dunn-Subban
Butcher-T. Smith

Blackwood
Raanta

it isn't sexy, but this is an offseason I would be quite happy with. Getting a guy like Killorn will help add to the toughness, especially playing with Hughes

Still leaves us with two 1sts, two 3rds (1 potentially from CAR), and two 4ths this year as well

Some of the trades could be for different players of course..I just wanted to steer the discussion away from what was being discussed

I think this is a lot of moves for things that don't move the needle that much either short term or long term. I feel like taking on a 5mil cap dump in Bozak should lower the price on Dunn a bit from a first round pick especially with a flat cap this season. However, I think Dunn would be a great pickup. The rest is just meh. I think the Devils should inquire on Raanta but he is too often injured to re-sign before he's even played a game for the Devils (something that should be done mid-season 0r after the season if things go well). If you can't make moves for one of the higher impact young d-man (or multiple) then I think the Devils should just wait it out so they can have more flexibility come expansion draft time. Sergachev would be the pipe dream though for me.

This idea I have kinda seems backwards especially with the Devils need for dman but I wonder if a trade based on Severson for Nylander trade could happen. 2 million+ savings on the cap for the leafs and someone who would be their best RHD. Value is off for the Leafs in terms of pure player value but who knows with that exit they just had. The Devils could then just sign one of the RHD in UFA like Vatanen or TVR. Smith plays the right side so that's why I might try something like that since Nylander is signed for longer than Severson. Then you could also look to trade Palmieri for assets that could help get another young dman or assets that could become useful come expansion draft.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I just don't like the "trade this guy for an asset" then "trade more assets to replace the guy you just traded" type of moves if I am being honest

we aren't going to get a DMan as good as Severson by trading Palmieri

 

[MadDevil]

So ultimately we'd end up with Nylander + mystery defenseman for Palmieri + Severson? I'm not sure that moves the needle that much either.

 

[Brodeur]

just spitballing here....was messing around on CapFriendly for a mock offseason

TRADE Vancouver 1st to St. Louis for Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak, and St. Louis 2020 3rd (threw this out there on the trade board and the Blues fans seem to be OK with it)

I don't mind the the thought of Bozak as a one year band-aid. He's a career 54% faceoff guy, so that's somebody I wouldn't mind helping out Hughes. Problem is that he has a 10 team NTC, so I don't know if it's a guarantee he'd waive to come here. I like Dunn, but I'm not sure I'd deal 20th overall for him.

TRADE New York Islanders 2021 2nd to Tampa Bay for Alex Killorn

Similarly Killorn has a 16 team NTC, so might not be a given he'd waive. Bob McKenzie has mentioned before how players will simply list the teams who have cap space which effectively makes a partial NTC into an almost full one.

TRADE Buffalo 2021 5th for Antti Raanta (cap dump), extend him for 2-3 years

Don't think Arizona has to dump Raanta yet. They'd only need to carve out the space to extend Hall or if they signed some other big fish free agent.

 

[R8Devs]

I just don't like the "trade this guy for an asset" then "trade more assets to replace the guy you just traded" type of moves if I am being honest

we aren't going to get a DMan as good as Severson by trading Palmieri

So ultimately we'd end up with Nylander + mystery defenseman for Palmieri + Severson? I'm not sure that moves the needle that much either.

Palmieri is a ufa next season so I don't expect to get a dman that is good as Severson is right now. Nylander would just replace Palmieri and the assets Palmieri returns could come useful (extra first + prospect) in trying to get another young dman (don't have to use the assets immediately it could be for the 21-22 season) especially with a flat cap and expansion draft coming there could be a decent amount of options. I know that seems like trading for the sake of trading but to me it's more about extending the Devils' timeline and avoiding having to give Palmieri a long term deal where he's over 30 for majority of the deal. I don't think it would drastically alter the Devils' fate next season but I think over the lifetime of Nylander's deal it would push the Devils forward. In this scenario I'm also betting on Smith becoming a decent to good top 4 option.

 

[Bleedred]

I’d rather just bring Andy Greene back for peanuts than give Edmundson a 4+ year deal.

Agreed.

And I don’t even want Greene back at all.

Edmundson would be fine as a bottom pairing-ish guy, but he’ll probably get top-3 minutes here. He’d be like when Greene was still playing all those minutes.

 

[MadDevil]

I don't think there's anything wrong with extending Palmieri. He's a proven scorer on a team lacking them. Not every player on the team is going to or has to perfectly fit our timeline.

 

[Brodeur]

Looking at the PK deal and I wonder if we could pull off something similar for William Nylander. Get a guy at a discount because we can take the whole contract and send them back zero cap. Something like Arizona's 1st + Anderson.

I could see a couple different options for Toronto is they choose to deal Nylander. I think they could do better than a mid-first and Anderson though, according to CapFriendly Anderson would require protection for the Expansion Draft so that might limit his (plus other's) trade value for the next year. Nylander's deal was frontloaded so in actual dollars (6 mil for the next 4) it's reasonable to a team who cares more about his salary than his cap hit.

- Carolina - something centered around Brett Pesce - Both guys signed for four more years. Seems like Carolina's been kicking the tires on Nylander going back to when he was RFA.

- Colorado - something centered around a couple prospects who are exempt from the Expansion Draft (Timmins, Kaut, Bowers) plus a 1st. Toronto then uses the cap space on a UFA RHD, let's just say somebody like Chris Tanev. In particular, Timmins played at Sault Ste. Marie where Dubas has connections.

Toronto signed a couple guys out of the KHL (Barabanov/Lehtonen), so they probably will be in the mix next year. Wouldn't be surprised if Andreas Johnsson is a cap casualty as well with Nick Robertson's emergence. A lineup like this can squeak under the cap (but whether it's an improvement is another question):

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Barabanov
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Clifford-Spezza?-Engvall

Rielly-(Pesce/Tanev)
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Lehtonen

Andersen-Campbell

 

[R8Devs]

I don't think there's anything wrong with extending Palmieri. He's a proven scorer on a team lacking them. Not every player on the team is going to or has to perfectly fit our timeline.

yeah I don't think it'd be the worst thing to extend Palmieri since he's more than just a scoring winger so when he slows down it might not be too bad but if the Devils could add a core player to their team for a price lower than it should be I think it makes sense especially if it could extend the Devils' timeline. it's all hypothetical anyway, who knows who will be available and what Fitz will do lol

 

[Emperoreddy]

Some of you guys are overeating Nylander. Especially at those prices.

Nevermind it doesn't address the real holes on the team.

 

[Bleedred]

Wrong thread.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Some of you guys are overeating Nylander. Especially at those prices.

Nevermind it doesn't address the real holes on the team.

He's a 24 year old 1st liner. That absolutely addresses a hole and it's obvious why there's interest.

That being said, there are plenty of other targets that likely won't be as expensive or high profile. I hope no one would be willing to break the bank for him.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I think this is a lot of moves for things that don't move the needle that much either short term or long term. I feel like taking on a 5mil cap dump in Bozak should lower the price on Dunn a bit from a first round pick especially with a flat cap this season. However, I think Dunn would be a great pickup. The rest is just meh. I think the Devils should inquire on Raanta but he is too often injured to re-sign before he's even played a game for the Devils (something that should be done mid-season 0r after the season if things go well). If you can't make moves for one of the higher impact young d-man (or multiple) then I think the Devils should just wait it out so they can have more flexibility come expansion draft time. Sergachev would be the pipe dream though for me.

This idea I have kinda seems backwards especially with the Devils need for dman but I wonder if a trade based on Severson for Nylander trade could happen. 2 million+ savings on the cap for the leafs and someone who would be their best RHD. Value is off for the Leafs in terms of pure player value but who knows with that exit they just had. The Devils could then just sign one of the RHD in UFA like Vatanen or TVR. Smith plays the right side so that's why I might try something like that since Nylander is signed for longer than Severson. Then you could also look to trade Palmieri for assets that could help get another young dman or assets that could become useful come expansion draft.

I'd definitely be interest in Nylander but to include Severson a deal for him just creates another hole. Severson gets a lot of flak but he's one of, if not definitively, our best defenseman. We need to be adding other good defenseman around him not subtracting.

I think we're in a fantastic position with 3 firsts, one pretty high in #7 and two others near the middle of the draft, to trade one or two of those picks for immediate help that can grow along with our existing core as well as still pick up a strong prospect. Not to mention the cap space we have.

 

[Cheddabombs]

double post

 

[R8Devs]

I'd definitely be interest in Nylander but to include Severson a deal for him just creates another hole. Severson gets a lot of flak but he's one of, if not definitively, our best defenseman. We need to be adding other good defenseman around him not subtracting.

I think we're in a fantastic position with 3 firsts, one pretty high in #7 and two others near the middle of the draft, to trade one or two of those picks for immediate help that can grow along with our existing core as well as still pick up a strong prospect. Not to mention the cap space we have.

Yeah I think Severson is the best devils dman too that's why I said idea seems a bit backwards lol but idk why the Leafs would trade him for a player that wouldn't help immediately + clear some cap. But the idea is based on the Devils being able to add a RD from UFA like Vatanen, Tanev, or Demelo to help in the short term replacement for Severson (obviously those are downgrades) and the long term replacement would be Smith and possibly the assets from a Palmieri trade used for a young dman. It's a bit NHL 20 I admit lol but Fitz will probably need to be creative to address both the scoring issues + defenseman issues whilst also building for the long-term

 

[beekay414]

I don't know exactly what I would do but pairing Butcher with Smith would end up in disaster.

 

[glenwo2]

Wrong thread.

Yeah. The DD appreciation thread is that way =====>