Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[MartyOwns]

I’m hesitant to deal Wood until someone like Foote, Bastian or anyone with any size is ready. As much as he’s a bonehead, he’s pretty much our only winger over 6’1” with any grit.

yeah but he’s not a pest, he doesn’t use his size like simmonds or wilson, and he doesn’t produce as much as he should. if the best thing about a guy is his height, i have no problems trading him

 

[NJDevs26]

You wouldn't have to draft Askarov with 11th pick. You could snag e.g. Jack Quinn.

If someone else drops that’s a different argument but I figured you were making a hypothesis if we were to pick Askarov 11 since the point was measuring value of goalie vs value of pick

 

[TBF1972]

If someone else drops that’s a different argument but I figured you were making a hypothesis if we were to pick Askarov 11 since the point was measuring value of goalie vs value of pick

exactly
but the goalie is MBW and the pick could be any player available at #11

 

[NJDevs26]

I mean if we get Drysdale at 7 and a top forward slips to 11 or maybe if we get a top forward at 7 and Sanderson is there at 11 it could be a debate. But I’m not wasting Blackwood if all the top guys are gone and we’re just picking a McLeod level player.

Plus I’d rather just keep a guy who’s a young NHL player, we have enough picks and needs without creating another.

 

[Devils731]

exactly
but the goalie is MBW and the pick could be any player available at #11

It’s really not a good comparison for looking at goalies compared to pick value. The answer to the question doesn’t tell us much about Askarov or goalie prospect value.

There are team considerations in play, for example, if the Devils have 2 goalies of Blackwoods stature then they’d be much more likely to trade one for the 11th pick but only have 1 such goalie are now very unlikely.

Also, goalies are hard to predict but they’re easier to predict at 24 years old with 70 NHL games under their belt. The reason most people don’t want to draft goalies early is because they’re viewed as more unpredictable but Blackwood has had a portion of his unpredictability removed due to time and play.

So I don’t think asking if the NJ Devils would trade Blackwood for the 11th pick does much to tell us about the general state of goalie prospect value or draft slot value at the draft.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I am not saying to give Palmieri whatever he wanted, but you can basically re-sign him for the addition of Connor Carrick's salary ($1.5 million) to his current cap hit, which also drops off the books after next year

Think about that. I get you want to be cautious with long term deals to older players, but I mean come on. Then remember Subban and Schneider ($15 million combined) drop off after that.

 

[Billdo]

I am not saying to give Palmieri whatever he wanted, but you can basically re-sign him for the addition of Connor Carrick's salary ($1.5 million) to his current cap hit, which also drops off the books after next year

Think about that. I get you want to be cautious with long term deals to older players, but I mean come on. Then remember Subban and Schneider ($15 million combined) drop off after that.

The money on his deal wouldn't be an issue until the very end which who knows what the landscape will be at that time anyway. At some point we have to start paying for guys NOW without worrying about 5-6 years down the road. I'm not saying to do what other teams in cap hell have done, but nobody gets a perfect deal in today's world unless your Mackinnon or Pasta.

 

[Nubmer6]

With the reservation the board has for Askarov. I wonder, if it is the value of Askarov specifically or the goalie position as such. So who would trade MBW for NAS first (11OA), if such a deal would be on the table?

Why is this vaguely reminiscent of Mad Mike trading Luongo to draft DiPietro?

 

[TBF1972]

It’s really not a good comparison for looking at goalies compared to pick value. The answer to the question doesn’t tell us much about Askarov or goalie prospect value.

There are team considerations in play, for example, if the Devils have 2 goalies of Blackwoods stature then they’d be much more likely to trade one for the 11th pick but only have 1 such goalie are now very unlikely.

Also, goalies are hard to predict but they’re easier to predict at 24 years old with 70 NHL games under their belt. The reason most people don’t want to draft goalies early is because they’re viewed as more unpredictable but Blackwood has had a portion of his unpredictability removed due to time and play.

So I don’t think asking if the NJ Devils would trade Blackwood for the 11th pick does much to tell us about the general state of goalie prospect value or draft slot value at the draft.

would you trade blackwood for mcd? everybody would
would you trade blackwood for the 1st pick in this years draft? i assume most of us would
why can't you answer, if for you the value of 11OA > MBW or not?

i assume most of the people not wanting askarov at 11 or 18 or 20 or until the second round, have need (MBW) in mind. many of them preach BPA at the same time.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Only way I consider moving Palmieri is if we’re getting multiple 1sts or a blue chip plus a 1st. We can’t afford to lose him. Nico and Jack will put up some horrific numbers on horrific teams with a wing situation like that.

 

[TBF1972]

Why is this vaguely reminiscent of Mad Mike trading Luongo to draft DiPietro?

it's not. you can draft jack quinn @11.

 

[Devils731]

would you trade blackwood for mcd? everybody would
would you trade blackwood for the 1st pick in this years draft? i assume most of us would
why can't you answer, if for you the value of 11OA > MBW or not?

i assume most of the people not wanting askarov at 11 or 18 or 20 or until the second round, have need (MBW) in mind. many of them preach BPA at the same time.

I think we all have different definitions of BPA.

For me, BPA is some combination of skills now, projected potential, and likelihood of attaining potential.

For that likelihood section goalies have the most variability historically so despite being great for skills now and projected potential they end up getting knocked down the BPA chart due to likelihood of outcomes.

We can see NHL teams mostly look at goalies like this as well as they used to take goalies much more frequently and higher than they do now. Goalies didn’t become worse prospects, teams just became better at judging their BPA value.

Edit: For me, I won’t trade MBW for the 11th overall but I would 100% make that similar trade if I was the Rangers. So the goalie and pick aren’t the only things in your question, it’s very team specific, so it doesn’t answer the question about value of the pick or goalie prospects in a vacuum.

 

[Pitaya]

I mean if we get Drysdale at 7 and a top forward slips to 11 or maybe if we get a top forward at 7 and Sanderson is there at 11 it could be a debate. But I’m not wasting Blackwood if all the top guys are gone and we’re just picking a McLeod level player.

Plus I’d rather just keep a guy who’s a young NHL player, we have enough picks and needs without creating another.

its crazy talk to even assume we would deal Blackwood for Byfield

some franchises goes decades without a good goaltender.. we talk about how a #1 dman is the hardest chip to find when, in reality, it may be a good goaltender who lasts longer than five years. and we have a shot at one of those now

 

[britdevil]

I am not saying to give Palmieri whatever he wanted, but you can basically re-sign him for the addition of Connor Carrick's salary ($1.5 million) to his current cap hit, which also drops off the books after next year

Think about that. I get you want to be cautious with long term deals to older players, but I mean come on. Then remember Subban and Schneider ($15 million combined) drop off after that.

I'd like to see KP retire a Devil.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Palms already has 132 goals as a Devil

for reference, Parise is 5th all time for the franchise and he had 194 in NJ

 

[Patrik26]

Because if you can get a 1st rounder + a B prospect for him it makes complete sense.....?

What? Who exactly would give us a 1st rounder PLUS a B prospect for a player who turns 30 when his next contract begins? If that did happen, then either it's a late pick or the GM making the trade is an idiot, desperate or both.

 

[britdevil]

I mean, people need to hit up capfriendly and take a look at our ridiculous cap situation.

A new deal for Palmieri doesn't hurt in the slightest. This team needs veteran leadership and he is one of the big voices in the room. He's also a Jersey boy who scores ~30 goals a season. I would have thought most of you would be all over that...

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What? Who exactly would give us a 1st rounder PLUS a B prospect for a player who turns 30 when his next contract begins? If that did happen, then either it's a late pick or the GM making the trade is an idiot, desperate or both.

at the trade deadline, I would think that we would net that type of return quite easily

offseason is different though

 

[britdevil]

With the reservation the board has for Askarov. I wonder, if it is the value of Askarov specifically or the goalie position as such. So who would trade MBW for NAS first (11OA), if such a deal would be on the table?

f*** no.

This draft is getting horribly overrated.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Also, with a half decent season from Zajac he is going to be top 3 in goals, assists, and points (already there) for the franchise all time

 

[britdevil]

Also, with a half decent season from Zajac he is going to be top 3 in goals, assists, and points (already there) for the franchise all time

A warrior for us. His debut season is still fresh in my mind.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I mean, people need to hit up capfriendly and take a look at our ridiculous cap situation.

A new deal for Palmieri doesn't hurt in the slightest. This team needs veteran leadership and he is one of the big voices in the room. He's also a Jersey boy who scores ~30 goals a season. I would have thought most of you would be all over that...

Yeah, we have so much cap space it really doesn't matter and won't handcuff us at all resigning Palmieri. At a certain point you have to pay some veteran guys. And I can somewhat get the notion of "by the time we're ready to compete Palms will be declining" but if we trade him off that 1-2 year timeline suddenly looks like 2-3 or more because we have zero proven goal scorers aside from him and we'd basically be praying one of our prospects can step up which isn't a good bet. Then you get stuck in the perpetual cycle of, well we're not competing next year so may as well ship off this guy and then this guy too until what - we stumble on a gem of a prospect that can step in right away?

Then it's also a matter of if you don't want to pay Palmieri well then who do you want to pay? Some people would have concerns over paying Pietrangelo man, not that he'd come here but we have so much cap space and you can't be that picky.

 

[Forge]

but if we trade him off that 1-2 year timeline suddenly looks like 2-3 or more

I think the timeline is already 2-3 years, tbh.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I wonder what happens with Vatanen in free agency. If the market for him collapses because of his injury concerns plus economy concerns because of corona, you might be able to get some value.

I was opposed to bringing him back but if he could be had on a < 4 year deal, I wouldn’t mind the depth.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

this offseason is going to be wild

especially if they really do start free agency the same weekend of the draft. Can you imagine?