Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - part XIII

[Pitaya]

Only the signing bonus is fully guaranteed in a buyout...that's why most of the big contracts get structured with major signing bonuses and less actual salary per year.

Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps



Example A: Tavares's contract, which is mostly signing bonuses

John Tavares - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I believe thats only determinative to cap hit for the buyout

Idk if im losing my mind but none of these links anyone posts discuss the actual PAY to Schneider. It all is discussing cap values and salary values

For example doesnt that link state signing bonus doesnt affect ‘BUYOUT COST’?

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't think it would specify signing bonuses being paid regardless of a buyout if the rest of the contract was as well. Nor would there be any real incentive for such contracts to be signed if the players were getting every penny regardless, with higher signing bonuses only increasing the cap hit.

 

[Pitaya]

If Im wrong ill eat the bullet but I believe the only reason people want signing bonuses is for a few reason

Team cap hits are lowered as well as current dollar values - and the simple idea of having that immediate cash flow

IIRC the NHL is 100% guaranteed money - when you sign that contract, unless you are terminated or retire willingly without medical reasoning, you get every dollar

 

[Pitaya]

I don't think it would specify signing bonuses being paid regardless of a buyout if the rest of the contract was as well.

I think its stating signing bonuses do not affect buyout costs, and thats used to determine the 1/3 or 2/3 value over X years for the cap and salary numbers

Cory Schneider the person still collects all 12 million I believe, while Cory Schneider the ‘player’ on paper only gets 8 of 12

 

[GameSeven]

From the CBA, emphasis mine.

(i) "Ordinary Course Buy-Outs" and "Compliance Buy-Outs." (i) ARTICLE 50 50.9-50.9 If a Player's SPC has been terminated and bought out by a Club pursuant to the Ordinary Course Buy-Out provisions set forth in the SPC (which SPC also eliminates the concept of the "lump sum" buy-out), the money due and owing to the Player pursuant to the Buy-Out shall be paid out in accordance with the terms of the SPC (e.g., one-third or two-thirds of the remaining Player Salary due and owing, to be paid over twice the remaining years of the terminated and bought out contract), and the amounts paid under such Buy-Out agreement shall be included in the Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary (as set forth in this Article 50) of the Club that bought out the Player during any League Year in which the Buy-Out is paid, and the amounts paid under such Buy-Out agreement shall also count against the Players' Share for any League Year in which the Buy-Out is paid (an "Ordinary Course Buy-Out").

 

[Sheros expletives]

I believe thats only determinative to cap hit for the buyout

Idk if im losing my mind but none of these links anyone posts discuss the actual PAY to Schneider. It all is discussing cap values and salary values

For example doesnt that link state signing bonus doesnt affect ‘BUYOUT COST’?

I think you've got it slightly wrong my friend. Salary is the actual money the player gets (minus taxes and escrow). Cap is the amount that counts towards the teams cap ceiling. There is no third part.

 

[NJDevs26]

Signing bonuses increase the buyout hit, at least the next couple years. Example: A Cory buyout gives us a $2 million cap hit over the next four years since there's no signing bonus. A PK buyout this offseason OTOH would be $7.6 million the next couple years (not much savings in other words) and minimal the last couple years cause he has a $6 million signing bonus in his salary each of the next two years, so then the cap-hit is far more up front.

So there really is no benefit to the team to throw in signing bonuses, it's all for the player getting guaranteed more money with potential buyouts.

 

[Pitaya]

I think you've got it slightly wrong my friend. Salary is the actual money the player gets (minus taxes and escrow). Cap is the amount that counts towards the teams cap ceiling. There is no third part.

While I may be wrong about the physical payout to Cory being lowered with a buyout, I do know there are two caps to a salary. There is the average (AAV) and the ACTUAL, which has its own limitations for teams

This is why signing bonuses affect cap hit

 

[Pitaya]

Whether Im right or wrong - that bloke Cory can sit in the AHL next year anyway, no need to buy him out lmao

Oh and googling some more about buyouts led me to Wikipedia, where a ‘related article’ to NHL buyouts was Rostislav Olesz

 

[Pitaya]

From the CBA, emphasis mine.

Hmm fair enough

Maybe the old CBA was different and Im misremembering? I find it so odd I was able to remember such detail and it ends up simply being false haha

Ill chalk this up to that damned Mandela affect - though I still refuse to believe Rich Uncle Pennybags from Monopoly never had a monocle. Fake news.

 

[Guttersniped]

There are three parts to an NHL contract that apply to the team in terms of money

1) cap hit, or regularly know as AAV
2) salary, this is more internal and can sometimes differ from cap hit based on contract distinctions and/or time of year
3) the actual pay the player receives, which is the same total dollar value from the day pen hits paper

Unless this changed very recently, which I suppose is possible, the only way a player doesn’t receive their pay is by retiring by choice - Kovalchuk is one IIRC

An example of difference between regular cap hit and salary is Tavares’ contract which involves heavy amounts of bonuses. His SALARY changes from year to year but his AAV stays constant

- Edited for clarity

Buyouts do reduce the amount of money the players receive, Schneider would receive 2/3 of the remaining salary owed him if he’s bought out this summer. I posted links explaining this if you have a source contradicting what I’m saying please post it.

The reason that top players like Tavares are now mostly getting paid through signing bonuses rather than salaries is because buyouts do not apply to bonuses it only applies to salaries. Getting paid in bonuses rather than salary makes a player buyout proof.

The Signing Bonus: Rise Of The Buyout-Proof Contract

An example of how bonuses negate the benefits of buyouts can be seen in contracts like Andrew Ladd’s. His contract was front loaded with earlier bigger bonuses but he only received 1m in salary every year. He has three more years left in which he earns 1m in salary and 3m in signing bonuses per year. Buying Ladd out reduces his total salary from 3m to 2m but he still gets 9m in signing bonuses and the cap hit saving is meager.

Look at Ladd’s and Schneider’s buyout numbers on Cap Friendly to compare a contract with signing bonuses and without them. The column with “post-buyout earnings” shows how much money the player will be paid and “savings” shows how much money the team saves with the buyout.
Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[NJDevs26]

Clarkson either invented or perfected the buyout-proof contract tbh

 

[Pitaya]

Alright I cant take it anymore

I had to convince myself NHL buyouts dont affect pay because....

I AM Cory Schneider

 

[NjDevsRR]

Clarkson either invented or perfected the buyout-proof contract tbh

He will be finally able to start a new career path in a few months when that contract expires. What a bizarre career he had.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Are we going to be able deal Vatanen with him on the IR?

 

[NJDevs26]

Are we going to be able deal Vatanen with him on the IR?

Theoretically yes...but we might not like the return at this point.

This was the doomsday scenario for Hall which nobody wanted, hence trading him two months early.

 

[ScottyK]

Anthony Zych designed our ADIDAS jerseys. He's the guy who use to do those game day posters we all loved.

 

[Forge]

Are we going to be able deal Vatanen with him on the IR?

You can trade with the player on IR; Kase was on IR when he was traded yesterday, I'm pretty sure. As Devs26 said though, I'd be a little concerned about the return. I think 2nd rounder and not much else, which is far cry from what I was expecting a month ago.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You can trade with the player on IR; Kase was on IR when he was traded yesterday, I'm pretty sure. As Devs26 said though, I'd be a little concerned about the return. I think 2nd rounder and not much else, which is far cry from what I was expecting a month ago.

Yeah same here. If we’re dealing "damaged goods", especially with his repeated concussions, a 2nd round pick would be a good return.

 

[Oneiro]

Anthony Zych designed our ADIDAS jerseys. He's the guy who use to do those game day posters we all loved.

The responses to people trolling him are interesting. I loved his posters too so I was surprised to find out that he designed our jersey. Turns out he's probably just as frustrated as some of us fans.

 

[awegrzyn]

The more I watch Hughes the more I think this kid is extremely overrated. There is not a single PRACTICAL thing about him. His style of hockey raised doubts before the draft, and now I can see it clearly. He is very dynamic when he gets the puck, but absolutely nothing comes out of that, as his not thought through pass decisions undo the dynamic jumps. His pass decisions are simply too quick and not smart. I'm not sure that can be improved at all. That's his style. Whirlwind type of hockey.

I can't find a single thing he is good at. As of now he is 12th in assists on the Devils. That is too low for a Center. Goose has more than twice the assists than him without any kind of dynamic skating. I'm afraid his ceiling is 2nd line center on a good day. Maybe 3rd actually. His stats will improve in 2 years, but it won't be what people think. I just don't see it.

On the other hand Zacha is in third for assists on the Devils. He is our second line center. He is simply under developed and probably misused. He is better than Hughes. Weird, but the more I watch Hughes, the less I like him. I'm sure you will disagree, but there is something about him not adding up, even though he looks super dynamic when watching live.

 

[RSeen]

The more I watch Hughes the more I think this kid is extremely overrated. There is not a single PRACTICAL thing about him. His style of hockey raised doubts before the draft, and now I can see it clearly. He is very dynamic when he gets the puck, but absolutely nothing comes out of that, as his not thought through pass decisions undo the dynamic jumps. His pass decisions are simply too quick and not smart. I'm not sure that can be improved at all. That's his style. Whirlwind type of hockey.

I can't find a single thing he is good at. As of now he is 12th in assists on the Devils. That is too low for a Center. Goose has more than twice the assists than him without any kind of dynamic skating. I'm afraid his ceiling is 2nd line center on a good day. Maybe 3rd actually. His stats will improve in 2 years, but it won't be what people think. I just don't see it.

On the other hand Zacha is in third for assists on the Devils. He is our second line center. He is simply under developed and probably misused. He is better than Hughes. Weird, but the more I watch Hughes, the less I like him. I'm sure you will disagree, but there is something about him not adding up, even though he looks super dynamic when watching live.

He is also 18 and clearly undersized for the NHL...

 

[My3Sons]

The more I watch Hughes the more I think this kid is extremely overrated. There is not a single PRACTICAL thing about him. His style of hockey raised doubts before the draft, and now I can see it clearly. He is very dynamic when he gets the puck, but absolutely nothing comes out of that, as his not thought through pass decisions undo the dynamic jumps. His pass decisions are simply too quick and not smart. I'm not sure that can be improved at all. That's his style. Whirlwind type of hockey.

I can't find a single thing he is good at. As of now he is 12th in assists on the Devils. That is too low for a Center. Goose has more than twice the assists than him without any kind of dynamic skating. I'm afraid his ceiling is 2nd line center on a good day. Maybe 3rd actually. His stats will improve in 2 years, but it won't be what people think. I just don't see it.

On the other hand Zacha is in third for assists on the Devils. He is our second line center. He is simply under developed and probably misused. He is better than Hughes. Weird, but the more I watch Hughes, the less I like him. I'm sure you will disagree, but there is something about him not adding up, even though he looks super dynamic when watching live.

Meh. Give HUGHES a few years and then compare him to Zacha. Even if you are right you are way too premature.

 

[glenwo2]

The more I watch Hughes the more I think this kid is extremely overrated. There is not a single PRACTICAL thing about him. His style of hockey raised doubts before the draft, and now I can see it clearly. He is very dynamic when he gets the puck, but absolutely nothing comes out of that, as his not thought through pass decisions undo the dynamic jumps. His pass decisions are simply too quick and not smart. I'm not sure that can be improved at all. That's his style. Whirlwind type of hockey.

I can't find a single thing he is good at. As of now he is 12th in assists on the Devils. That is too low for a Center. Goose has more than twice the assists than him without any kind of dynamic skating. I'm afraid his ceiling is 2nd line center on a good day. Maybe 3rd actually. His stats will improve in 2 years, but it won't be what people think. I just don't see it.

On the other hand Zacha is in third for assists on the Devils. He is our second line center. He is simply under developed and probably misused. He is better than Hughes. Weird, but the more I watch Hughes, the less I like him. I'm sure you will disagree, but there is something about him not adding up, even though he looks super dynamic when watching live.

Hughes is 18. Calm down.

He still has time to develop into a player that you won't dislike(for some reason).

Is Zacha under-developed or is he a late-bloomer? (some here have had enough of him already)

Goose is basically a VET of the game of Hockey and isn't your typical NHL Rookie.

 

[NjDevsRR]

The more I watch Hughes the more I think this kid is extremely overrated. There is not a single PRACTICAL thing about him. His style of hockey raised doubts before the draft, and now I can see it clearly. He is very dynamic when he gets the puck, but absolutely nothing comes out of that, as his not thought through pass decisions undo the dynamic jumps. His pass decisions are simply too quick and not smart. I'm not sure that can be improved at all. That's his style. Whirlwind type of hockey.

I can't find a single thing he is good at. As of now he is 12th in assists on the Devils. That is too low for a Center. Goose has more than twice the assists than him without any kind of dynamic skating. I'm afraid his ceiling is 2nd line center on a good day. Maybe 3rd actually. His stats will improve in 2 years, but it won't be what people think. I just don't see it.

On the other hand Zacha is in third for assists on the Devils. He is our second line center. He is simply under developed and probably misused. He is better than Hughes. Weird, but the more I watch Hughes, the less I like him. I'm sure you will disagree, but there is something about him not adding up, even though he looks super dynamic when watching live.

You kidding right? If you are not seeing the plays he creates and offense he generates then I don’t know what to tell you. His underlying stats also back this up.