He has the 2nd most primary assists on the team, and the 8th most secondary. The lack of goals is a legit critique, as is the lack of shots, but his assists are a solid aspect of his game.
Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - part XIII
- Thread starter NJDevs26
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I still see it as an effort issue. Just doesn't do enough to get to loose pucks or win battles, seems to puck watch way too often.
He could play well in the ahl. That would give him a chance at NHL employment.
Sorry, but the dude is making six million dollars. I don't have much sympathy for doing that in the ahl as opposed to the NHL. That doesn't really sound like a legit issue to me
Agree, if he plays well in Bing, he either gets a chance again in NJ(say if there is an injury) or some team takes a chance on him and we get a little something back via trade.
Just giving him how ever many million dollars in a buyout, (which remember, does go against our cap further along the timeline), because we want to the do the right thing for him, and allow him his freedom sounds way too magnanimous for my liking.
Devils731
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2008
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While I think Zacha has good vision, I don’t think he has a high motor or great instincts.
So a high effort system with lots of constant reads is pretty much the worst system for him and a more positional system with responsibilities rather than reads would play more to his strengths.
- Dec 20, 2018
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Even if you aren’t moved by the humanitarian aspect of a buyout the Devils are probably going to prefer paying Cory 8m with a buyout rather than all 12m owed to him.
He's played his off-side most of his junior career, so it's definitely a possibility, but we may be forced to play him on the left since it's completely devoid of people.
- May 1, 2011
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Being bought out leaves gives the player with more dignity than burying him in the minors. It's putting the player out of his misery.
And with any luck, we'll have maybe one other goalie next season (probably more than likely to be the 21-22 season, even if we draft a goalie this year, as he won't play in the AHL next year if we do) other than Senn that should get some legit ice time and having some old 34-35 year old on the team that could have just gotten paid to go home could become a hindrance to that.
I don't understand the paranoia about buying him out for cap reasons. It's not like he'll be the biggest buy out in the league. Hell, Sharks fans are already talking about buying out Martin Jones (I don't think he will be bought out) and he has 4 years left on his deal after this. If we're afraid to take a buyout on Cory because we might need that $2 million off the books by 2022 through 2024 then that's some insane micromanagement right there. And him being bought out saves us $4 million for the next two years, so you can't say it's gonna hurt us the next two years. By the last two years of that buyout dead cap space hit (which are the first two years after his contract would have expired) the salary cap is more than likely gonna be $85-$88 million. It's not even outlandish to think it could be $90 million by 2023-2024. Especially after the boost from Seattle entering the league. And then there's the new TV deal coming up by then, which likely means higher salary cap, if I had to guess.
We bought out Mike Cammalleri's last 2 years on his deal 3 years ago. I'm pretty sure his buyout cap hit is only about $333k less per year than Cory will be and for the same amount of years. And adjusted for cap inflation, Cammalleri's buyout in 2017 might have been a larger percentage of the cap than Schneider's buyout cap hit in 2020. I'd have to actually run those numbers though.
- May 1, 2011
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I'm under the impression that when a player is bought out, the two/thirds of the remaining salary thing is only for cap reasons and that the player is always paid in full anyway. It's just that two/thirds of it counts towards the buyout and cap ''Punishment'', so only $8 million would be on the cap, but the player would eventually get all $12 million? Someone would have to set me straight on that one.
I can understand this from the businessman aspect of myself. I can hate it with the fan aspect of myself lol (unless we are going to use the additional money from Cory next year, I just think that is unlikely)
I'll be honest, I may have had the buyout thing wrong as well. Here's what I get on cap friendly (hopefully this pastes right)
Cory Schneider Buyout Details
Cost Calculations
| BUYOUT DATE | BASE SALARY REMAINING | S.BONUS REMAINING | YEARS REMAINING | BUYOUT LENGTH | AGE | BUYOUT RATIO | TOTAL COST | TOTAL SAVINGS | ANNUAL COST |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jun 15, 2020 | $12,000,000 | $0 | 2 | 4 | 34 | 2/3 | $8,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $2,000,000 |
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
| SEASON | INITIAL BASE SALARY | INITIAL CAP HIT | SIGNING BONUS | BUYOUT COST | POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS | SAVINGS | CAP HIT (
|
| 2020-21 | $6,000,000 | $6,000,000 | $0 | $2,000,000 | $2,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $2,000,000 |
| 2021-22 | $6,000,000 | $6,000,000 | $0 | $2,000,000 | $2,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $2,000,000 |
| 2022-23 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,000,000 | $2,000,000 | -$2,000,000 | $2,000,000 |
| 2023-24 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,000,000 | $2,000,000 | -$2,000,000 | $2,000,000 |
| TOTAL | $12,000,000 | $12,000,000 | $0 | $8,000,000 | $8,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $8,000,000 |
- May 1, 2011
- 130,161
- 57,500
I figured the two-thirds thing was only part of the cap ''Punishment'' and that he gets his whole salary no matter what.I'll be honest, I may have had the buyout thing wrong as well. Here's what I get on cap friendly (hopefully this pastes right)
Cory Schneider Buyout Details
Cost Calculations
Cap Hit Calculations[TBODY] [/TBODY]
BUYOUT DATE BASE SALARY REMAINING S.BONUS REMAINING YEARS REMAINING BUYOUT LENGTH AGE BUYOUT RATIO TOTAL COST TOTAL SAVINGS ANNUAL COST Jun 15, 2020 $12,000,000 $0 2 4 34 2/3 $8,000,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT ( NJD)2020-21 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000 2021-22 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000 2022-23 $0 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 -$2,000,000 $2,000,000 2023-24 $0 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 -$2,000,000 $2,000,000 TOTAL $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $4,000,000 $8,000,000
theoptimist
Trade Siegenthaler
Zacha takes the puck from behind our goalie to the the red line on some occasions. It’s a treat to watch, especially when our LHDs enjoy acting as if we’re on a full-game PK
- May 1, 2011
- 130,161
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I also think we need to stay away from Jake Allen. He's having an ''Up'' year this season and that might make the last year of his deal tradeable.
I would trade for him (With an asset or some worthwhile incentive coming our way) only if we demote him to the minors and get a better backup for the NHL next year. I'd seriously rather have Jonathan Bernier here than Jake Allen. But I doubt Allen will get demoted after the year he's had.
With how much everyone here blames systems this and defense's that when a goalie plays like trash, I think there's a case to be made that goalies seem to do better on St. Louis in the last decade or so than they do when they leave there.
Halak dropped a bit (but not too much) after he left there (but has since surged back with the Bruins) and went to the Islanders. Elliott completely cratered after he left there and so did Carter Hutton. I don't even think it's debatable that Hutton just vastly overachieved in his last season there and was never gonna maintain .931%, even if he had re-signed with the Blues. You could argue that Hutton might have been a fine backup somewhere, but the fact that he's pretty much the Buffalo starter (he was last year, not quite as heavy of a workload this year, due to injury), has made him very mortal there, but goalies seem to get worse after leaving St. Louis and Allen has already been a VERY MEDIOCRE goalie for over half the years he's been in St. Louis.
Allen screams of someone that could come here and quite possibly put up the same rotten numbers Domingue just did or maybe something very close to that.
I would trade for him (With an asset or some worthwhile incentive coming our way) only if we demote him to the minors and get a better backup for the NHL next year. I'd seriously rather have Jonathan Bernier here than Jake Allen. But I doubt Allen will get demoted after the year he's had.
With how much everyone here blames systems this and defense's that when a goalie plays like trash, I think there's a case to be made that goalies seem to do better on St. Louis in the last decade or so than they do when they leave there.
Halak dropped a bit (but not too much) after he left there (but has since surged back with the Bruins) and went to the Islanders. Elliott completely cratered after he left there and so did Carter Hutton. I don't even think it's debatable that Hutton just vastly overachieved in his last season there and was never gonna maintain .931%, even if he had re-signed with the Blues. You could argue that Hutton might have been a fine backup somewhere, but the fact that he's pretty much the Buffalo starter (he was last year, not quite as heavy of a workload this year, due to injury), has made him very mortal there, but goalies seem to get worse after leaving St. Louis and Allen has already been a VERY MEDIOCRE goalie for over half the years he's been in St. Louis.
Allen screams of someone that could come here and quite possibly put up the same rotten numbers Domingue just did or maybe something very close to that.
Pitaya
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MauDevils
Registered User
What's the point of buying out Schneider? We're more likely to be at the floor than the ceiling.
We're more likely to need cap space in years 3 and 4. No point in adding 2 million in dead cap.
We're more likely to need cap space in years 3 and 4. No point in adding 2 million in dead cap.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
I'd agree with you. I think it makes sense to hold onto him next year and then potentially look to buy him out the following season. If you have the cap space at that point that is not being utilized, perhaps you hold onto him.
However money could be a consideration if ownership would rather save $4 million.
- Dec 20, 2018
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Someone literally just posted the breakdown of Schneider’s buyout from Cap Friendly. Buyouts pay 1/3 of the value of a remaining contract for players under 26 and 2/3 of the value of a remaining contract for players 26 or older.
I assume NHLPA agreed to this because it only applies to bigger contracts, teams only get one buyout per off-season plus an extended cap hit and players get money while being free to sign with other teams.
Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
NHL Buyout Rules - A Refresher
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Pitaya
Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
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The NHL has 100% guaranteed contracts.
Buyouts only affect salary and cap hits - NOT the actual paycheck to the player
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
Yes they do man. If Cory is bought out, he will only receive 8 million of the 12 million left that is owed to him.
Pitaya
Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
- Dec 14, 2019
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The SALARY cap shows 8 of 12
Cory receives every dollar of that 12 million
I am fairly confident in this as the NHL is the only league with fully guaranteed contracts
Salary cap and cap hit are two different things just so we are clear
Pitaya
Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
- Dec 14, 2019
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There are three parts to an NHL contract that apply to the team in terms of money
1) cap hit, or regularly know as AAV
2) salary, this is more internal and can sometimes differ from cap hit based on contract distinctions and/or time of year
3) the actual pay the player receives, which is the same total dollar value from the day pen hits paper
Unless this changed very recently, which I suppose is possible, the only way a player doesn’t receive their pay is by retiring by choice - Kovalchuk is one IIRC
An example of difference between regular cap hit and salary is Tavares’ contract which involves heavy amounts of bonuses. His SALARY changes from year to year but his AAV stays constant
- Edited for clarity
1) cap hit, or regularly know as AAV
2) salary, this is more internal and can sometimes differ from cap hit based on contract distinctions and/or time of year
3) the actual pay the player receives, which is the same total dollar value from the day pen hits paper
Unless this changed very recently, which I suppose is possible, the only way a player doesn’t receive their pay is by retiring by choice - Kovalchuk is one IIRC
An example of difference between regular cap hit and salary is Tavares’ contract which involves heavy amounts of bonuses. His SALARY changes from year to year but his AAV stays constant
- Edited for clarity
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NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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Only the signing bonuses are fully guaranteed in a buyout...that's why most of the big contracts these days get structured with major signing bonuses and less actual salary per year.
Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Example A: Tavares's contract, which is mostly signing bonuses
John Tavares - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Cory OTOH signed his extension long ago before signing bonuses to beat the buyout went en vogue, so no signing bonus to factor in there.
Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Example A: Tavares's contract, which is mostly signing bonuses
John Tavares - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Cory OTOH signed his extension long ago before signing bonuses to beat the buyout went en vogue, so no signing bonus to factor in there.
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