Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part VII

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AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
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GA/60 doesn't really show you anything...at all. It's just plus minus without the plus divided by 60, and dividing it by 60 just amplifies guys with low ice time because you don't have very good resolution on their stats.
 

Triumph

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
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pretty sure if Pittsburgh claims him he has to stay on the NHL roster

Yeah, this is right - they can waive him again, but he would have to stay on the roster for a day first. It's been more than 30 days since Dea was acquired on waivers.
 

BahlDeep

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Jun 29, 2008
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GA/60 doesn't really show you anything...at all. It's just plus minus without the plus divided by 60, and dividing it by 60 just amplifies guys with low ice time because you don't have very good resolution on their stats.

If you keep on being one of the worst in that statistic, including OIsv%, there's something wrong somewhere.
 

My3Sons

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...
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He averages 30 seconds a game on the PK. Lovejoy averages 3:49.

I know people will go bonkers on this thought, but if we are talking purely defending in our own zone, Lovejoy is our best d-man.

Lovejoy is our best d-man in all four zones - the offensive neutral defensive and that most important of zones the forbidden zone from Planet of the Apes
 

MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
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you know what would be great? if the kings traded us kovy while retaining half his salary
 

RSeen

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Oct 26, 2011
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The problem with trading an NHL MVP is it's almost impossible to get better players in return, because people dont trade NHL MVPs.

If you analyze the history of trading (in any sport), the team that gets the best player usually wins. Well, good luck returning someone "better" than Hall. I cannot possibly imagine trading a 27 year old Taylor Hall, unless he wants out of Jersey.
I agree with that, but if your looking to have a sell high buy low mentality to accumulate assets, then I would atleast think about it. Last season is not the norm for Hall, his value was at it's all time high. Atlas exploring his value and what we can get in return would be interesting IMO.
 

BenedictGomez

Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
Oct 11, 2007
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If anyone should be on waivers today. His name should be Drew Stafford not JS Dea.

Agreed. Still dont understand the fascination with Drew Stafford. Didnt get it last year, dont get it this year.

Mueller has not been better than Severson

Mueller is substantially better than Severson defensively. But congratulations, apparently you're qualified to be a Norris voter.

Severson having one of the worst GA/60 each season he's been on the Devils is a major concern

But, but, those secondary assists are just now starting to pile up!
 

BenedictGomez

Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
Oct 11, 2007
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Unsurprising to me, but the contingent calling for his head isn't going to take this well.

It's unsurprising to me too as I dont think Hynes will be fired unless it gets "worse", but really HTH would E.J. Hradek know that?

Hradek calls Shero - "Are you going to fire Skeletor?"
Ray Shero NJ GM - "No"

Okay then, nothing to see here folks.
 

Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
Nov 24, 2011
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It's unsurprising to me too as I dont think Hynes will be fired unless it gets "worse", but really HTH would E.J. Hradek know that?

Hradek calls Shero - "Are you going to fire Skeletor?"
Ray Shero NJ GM - "No"

Okay then, nothing to see here folks.

To my knowledge, Hradek's always had some "connections" with the Devils but don't quote me on that for certain.

Either way, I don't think he's going out on much of a limb with that response anyway.
 

BenedictGomez

Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
Oct 11, 2007
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GA/60 doesn't really show you anything

Completely disagree.

In fact, taking it to the team level, I saw a great (dorky & exhaustive) study that showed the greatest predictor of future team success was simple goal differential. They correlated it to everyone's various favorite "advanced statistics du jour", including Corsi, and found that a more reliable predictor of future wins/losses wasn't Corsi or other stats, etc...., but simple goal differential.

This makes complete sense to me for various reasons. There's a LOT going on on the ice beyond what is captured in a few given statistics, and everything taken collectively results in goals scored (or not). In essence, the goals are resultant from the largest data set of variables combined.

For instance, after roughly 25% of the season the best and worst goal differential teams are:

BEST:
Toronto +24
Colorado +22
Nashville +22
Tampa +22

These are 4 of the top 5 teams in the NHL. Buffalo has the best record, but a GD of only +11, suggestive that the Sabres should drop from here.

WORST:
L.A. -22
Chicago -22
Ottawa -18
Vancouver -18

These teams are pretty bad, but the Blues have the 2nd worst record in the NHL, with only a - 6 DG, suggestive that St. Louis should climb higher.
 
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BenedictGomez

Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
Oct 11, 2007
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How is the top Corsi team in the entire NHL doing right now?

1) Hurricanes 12 W - 12 L

How is the worst Corsi team in the entire NHL doing right now?

31) Senators 10W - 15L


Predictive value after 25% of the season = "meh"

If you look at the top 5 "best" Corsi teams it's still = "meh", as a predictive tool, though the bottom 5 Corsi teams are doing pretty poor collectively to date, showing some correlation.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
66,190
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Lol 25% of a season is a big enough sample. And Lovejoy hasn't been going vs top competition competition.

Severson having one of the worst GA/60 each season he's been on the Devils is a major concern
That is because he is leading the team in 5v5 minutes. By a lot.

He is averaging more than a minute 5v5 over Greene and Vatanen. And his defensive Zone starts are higher than they ever have been in his career since his rookie season at just a hair under 54%
 

Brodeur

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
26,108
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San Diego
you know what would be great? if the kings traded us kovy while retaining half his salary

Interesting thing about Kovalchuk's deal is that (as I understand it), the Kings already paid him a 7.85 mil signing bonus and his actual salary for this season is only 650K. So Kovalchuk is a bit of a bargain for the remainder of this season and it's a bit of a sunk cost with the Kings.

If a team were more concerned about actual dollars over the cap hit (and wasn't concerned about him bailing on the last year of his deal), Kovalchuk might be an option. Although he is due 6 million next year.
 
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BenedictGomez

Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
Oct 11, 2007
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Kovalchuk is pacing for 17 goals & 48 points.

That's about your typical year of Adam Henrique's production =LULZ
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,132
23,195
Miami, FL
Completely disagree.

In fact, taking it to the team level, I saw a great (dorky & exhaustive) study that showed the greatest predictor of future team success was simple goal differential. They correlated it to everyone's various favorite "advanced statistics du jour", including Corsi, and found that a more reliable predictor of future wins/losses wasn't Corsi or other stats, etc...., but simple goal differential.

This makes complete sense to me for various reasons. There's a LOT going on on the ice beyond what is captured in a few given statistics, and everything taken collectively results in goals scored (or not). In essence, the goals are resultant from the largest data set of variables combined.

For instance, after roughly 25% of the season the best and worst goal differential teams are:

BEST:
Toronto +24
Colorado +22
Nashville +22
Tampa +22

These are 4 of the top 5 teams in the NHL. Buffalo has the best record, but a GD of only +11, suggestive that the Sabres should drop from here.

WORST:
L.A. -22
Chicago -22
Ottawa -18
Vancouver -18

These teams are pretty bad, but the Blues have the 2nd worst record in the NHL, with only a - 6 DG, suggestive that St. Louis should climb higher.
If you're taking it to the team level then it's not GA/60, it's goal differential, which is a completely different stat. I don't think anyone is questioning that goal differential is a great way to evaluate teams at a glance, I certainly use it.

But team goal differential is COMPLETELY different than skater GA/60. Goal differential gives you important context to define a player's role, style, and performance. With GA/60 all you're getting is what happens on one side of the ice when the player is on.

Taylor Hall, for example, is leading our forwards in GA/60, but he's also pushing play really hard at the other end of the ice. But if you didn't know that you'd think he was just a bad defensive player, when in reality he's just a high event player that gets a ton of ice time and ends up as a net positive.

Presenting rates against without quality against, rates for, quality for, scoring effects, etc is just regurgitating meaningless data for the sake of having data.

By the way, whats the best predictor for goals for and goals against? Could it be...shots for and shot against? Shots certainly give you much more resolution because you have many more data points to evaluate.

Most current models integrate both goal differential and possession together. I'm not sure why you're still harping on this all-or-nothing approach to Corsi, no one has used Corsi in that way for years. We have so much data now that Corsi is just one tool that can be used to evaluate players.
 

DEVILS130

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
2,470
1,305
PA
Man our schedule in December is brutal....

Back to back WSH/WPG
The Cali road trip
Back to back VGK/NSH
Games against TOR, BOS, CBJ (x2)
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
19,532
4,549
New Jersey
How close is Jesper Boqvist? He is having good year in Sweden from everything I have read and he sounds like the additional skilled guy we need as I think MarJo is gone next year. I know it may be asking a lot for lightning to strike twice with Bratt and him being ready for the top 6 so early but is that possible for next year?

Talvitie is having a good year at Penn State as well but he might be further away.

I would take a guess Boqvist comes over after this year.

I’d give him a year after of AHL time and then he’s probably our MoJo replacement as that skilled, puck carrying playmaker in the top nine.
 
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