Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) part IV

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I dont get how acquiring a skilled player you dream your prospects become, whos age matches the teams build, is bad for the future of the team.

Im curious as to how that is?

That is easy. I just look at championship caliber teams are built and hope the Devils can emulate it. What you typically see are a couple of well paid players that the team drafted that perform at a high level and some younger veterans that the team drafts on good contracts (think John Carlson). After they have those pieces, they tend to make trades for the role players or higher end rentals because they are in a cup window. The Devils core from their "glory days" were mainly drafted with Stevens the big exception. IMO the Devils are not in a cup window, they are a fringe playoff contender. That is not the type of team that should trade those picks. When teams like Pittsburgh and Washington trade those first round picks they know they are going to be late in the first round. I have no idea where our first round pick will be in 2019, therefore I cannot value it properly.

Ideally I am looking for a center on an entry level contract that can produce at a high level at a low price (think Mat Barzal). Unfortunately a player like Duchene's 27 goals per year will cost the Devils around $9 million per year or so. That is a high percentage of the cap. I also prefer a player with high trade value in case I need to trade him. It is much easier to trade a player producing a lower contract as opposed to a free agent level contract. For example, compare the trade value currently of Barzal vs Tavares. We can argue who the better player is, but Barzal has much high trade value because he makes so much less and is younger.

The whole reason we are having this conversation is that the Devils have drafted 7 forwards in the first round since 2008 and only 1 of them is currently on the roster producing for us. I am sure no cup winning team has been built with that kind of draft record. If we trade our pick this year we know we will not have our best chance at getting an appreciating asset.

I do not want to make the playoffs as a low seed this year by trading away future assets. If we make it with our young players producing, that will be great because that would show that our young players are improving. If you would prefer a low seed this year and getting beat early in the playoffs than trading your first round pick for a player like Duchene is a good idea. Our lines would look a whole lot better this year with him at 2C, that is for sure!

Are there any examples of cup winning teams that acquired the core of their team via trades? I am not saying there is not, I just cannot think of any.

 

[MichaelJ]

how much worse can we be? we lost to detroit for god’s sake, we barely beat florida. we have no secondary scoring, our goaltending is unpredictable, hall isn’t scoring, our pet’s heads are falling off, etc etc. i know this board needs a scapegoat but if we lose our next game because gabriel plays for 7 minutes i’ll eat my hat.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

sorry. no, i wouldn’t do that deal

Fair enough!

I do wonder what'd we do in terms of the defense but a player like Nylander being available, in the way he is - doesnt happen often

 

[Nubmer6]

Idk why its so unrealistic to think that Toronto may become desperate and they have to move move Nylander before the extension deadline if he wont sign. And Severson is no slouch, I doubt there are many more options with a long term contract at a reasonable rate and at his age...

Honestly (and I'm not trying to be a dick or anything), I think that trade would be lose-lose. We'd have a gaping hole at RD with noone to fill it, and Toronto could most likely get a significantly better player elsewhere, so they'd be ripped apart by their fans.

 

[Devils Dominion]

i am not attacking zacha. just saying and have been saying for years that he is bust. a big bust.

Let's just hope the demotion will somehow spark a flame with PZ. He should not be 10-0-0-0, he has better talent than that.

 

[JimEIV]

Well congrats, why the hell aren't you a scout. Let's give this guy a clipboard and ship him off to Russia.

Funny and 100% true story. When I was a freshman in highschool I had a good friend who was senior and we both were on the football team. We didn't have lights on our field so we played all of our home games on Saturday...So we would go to other High School games on Friday night to watch...my friend would wear an Iowa Hawkeye hat with matching Starter jacket and clipboard and stand in the back bleacher... people would flock around him trying to find out what he was doing...and he had all these great lines when people asked him questions. Mostly insulting the home team...he told one women, presumably a players mom by the jersey she was wearing, "it's a fine line between a talent pool and a cesspool"

 

[MartyOwns]

Fair enough!

I do wonder what'd we do in terms of the defense but a player like Nylander being available, in the way he is - doesnt happen often

i’d rather set my sights on signing one or more of eberle/duchene...maybe even brassard or simmonds on a short deal...over the summer. who knows if they’ll hit ufa though

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

That is easy. I just look at championship caliber teams are built and hope the Devils can emulate it. What you typically see are a couple of well paid players that the team drafted that perform at a high level and some younger veterans that the team drafts on good contracts (think John Carlson). After they have those pieces, they tend to make trades for the role players or higher end rentals because they are in a cup window. The Devils core from their "glory days" were mainly drafted with Stevens the big exception. IMO the Devils are not in a cup window, they are a fringe playoff contender. That is not the type of team that should trade those picks. When teams like Pittsburgh and Washington trade those first round picks they know they are going to be late in the first round. I have no idea where our first round pick will be in 2019, therefore I cannot value it properly.

Ideally I am looking for a center on an entry level contract that can produce at a high level at a low price (think Mat Barzal). Unfortunately a player like Duchene's 27 goals per year will cost the Devils around $9 million per year or so. That is a high percentage of the cap. I also prefer a player with high trade value in case I need to trade him. It is much easier to trade a player producing a lower contract as opposed to a free agent level contract. For example, compare the trade value currently of Barzal vs Tavares. We can argue who the better player is, but Barzal has much high trade value because he makes so much less and is younger.

The whole reason we are having this conversation is that the Devils have drafted 7 forwards in the first round since 2008 and only 1 of them is currently on the roster producing for us. I am sure no cup winning team has been built with that kind of draft record. If we trade our pick this year we know we will not have our best chance at getting an appreciating asset.

I do not want to make the playoffs as a low seed this year by trading away future assets. If we make it with our young players producing, that will be great because that would show that our young players are improving. If you would prefer a low seed this year and getting beat early in the playoffs than trading your first round pick for a player like Duchene is a good idea. Our lines would look a whole lot better this year with him at 2C, that is for sure!

Are there any examples of cup winning teams that acquired the core of their team via trades? I am not saying there is not, I just cannot think of any.

Who exactly do you expect to come up and score at a top-6 option as a prospect? Those are very rare. I dont think its wise to build a team around the hopes of prospects exploding in production. Also, Hall Vatanen Palmieri Johansson Zajac Schneider Kinkaid are all 27 and older. What are you going to tell them when the plan is to wait 2-3 years for more kids to produce? What do you tell Hall if the team misses the playoffs this year?

27 isnt old by any means but 27 is older when you add on 2-3 years for draft picks to develop (if they develop quickly, otherwise longer) and then 90% of your best players are over 30

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Honestly (and I'm not trying to be a dick or anything), I think that trade would be lose-lose. We'd have a gaping hole at RD with noone to fill it, and Toronto could most likely get a significantly better player elsewhere, so they'd be ripped apart by their fans.

I just feel Nylanders dont come around often - sub-23 top 3-6 players who wont sign as an RFA. I also think Id choose a lesser dfense over a lesser offense - the days of defense winning cups are over, its almodt entirely the offense now.

 

[Davegarri]

Zacha smh...

 

[BenedictGomez]

LOL @ the posters who not 24 hours ago mocked people for suggesting Zacha could be sent down!

 

[JimEIV]

LOL @ the posters who not 24 hours ago mocked people for suggesting Zacha could be sent down!

I didn't see any of that?

 

[BenedictGomez]

I didn't think they'd send him down until it was pointed out here they only had a limited window left to do it before he needed waivers.

That was me, occasionally I'm good for something.

 

[blood gin]

So who here has seen Seney play? Seems pint sized. I'm guessing he's pretty quick. Any comparisons? He certainly was scoring at a pretty fair clip in Binghampton though he doesn't seem to have much finish. Is he like Blandisi?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

So who here has seen Seney play? Seems pint sized. I'm guessing he's pretty quick. Any comparisons? He certainly was scoring at a pretty fair clip in Binghampton though he doesn't seem to have much finish. Is he like Blandisi?

He is both quick and fast, he is undersized, he lacks finish and his hands are average.

 

[Nubmer6]

The bigger question to me is if we throw Seney directly into the fire as 2c or start him at 3c/4c where he probably wouldn't play his game.

 

[JimEIV]

So who here has seen Seney play? Seems pint sized. I'm guessing he's pretty quick. Any comparisons? He certainly was scoring at a pretty fair clip in Binghampton though he doesn't seem to have much finish. Is he like Blandisi?

I probably caught 3 or 4 of his Merrimack games. He was a little jitterbug in college.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I think its very simple how this team goes forward. If youre signing Hall, you plan on contending by next season or 2020. Otherwise if youre not - why are you signing him? Why would you want a guy who will be 30+ by the time you start competing when you could have gotten some high end youth for him?

Am I suggesting trading Hall? No but if management is as hardset on keeping all our picks and developing prospects like some think we should be. Those who are content with missing the playoffs this year I think are those wanting the rebuild to continue - and to them I say why dont you move Hall?

 

[Nubmer6]

I just feel Nylanders dont come around often - sub-23 top 3-6 players who wont sign as an RFA. I also think Id choose a lesser dfense over a lesser offense - the days of defense winning cups are over, its almodt entirely the offense now.

That's not working very well for Toronto. There's a reason they're looking for D.

Nylander's very talented, yes, but if we leave a big gaping hole, it's kinda like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[blood gin]

He is both quick and fast, he is undersized, he lacks finish and his hands are average.

I see. Sounds like a career fringe guy who will have some moments but unless he figures out how to do one thing and very very well (like kill penalties) not ticketed for long term success

 

[MichaelJ]

Trading Severson for Nylander would’ve been fine if we had signed Carlson. Can’t afford it now.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

@ChicksDigTheTrap If you are for rebuilding and filling holes internally, are you in favor of moving Hall?

 

[NJDevs26]

the days where you play guys ONLY because they can fight are over in the NHL.

We hear this every year and every year there are still examples of that happening when a team just doesn't have enough sandpaper in the lineup. Wood is supposed to be a sandpaper guy but he's probably a combination of gunshy after his suspension and too wrapped up in putting up offensive numbers to do so anymore. Boyle's a pot-stirrer but not a fighter at this point.

Teams obviously don't want to play goons if they can help it, but eventually if things get too bad and you don't have a skill guy that can do it, the one-dimensional goons still pop up here and there, especially for specific games. Just like if teams have a bad offense they might play a one-dimensional player who can't do anything but (allegedly) score to try to get some offense - we had a few of those guys too in the dark years like Brunner, Boucher, etc.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

How many years do yall think until were contending? End of this season? Next? 3, 4, 5 years?

 

[Darkauron]

Omfg we will not move Hall. It is not even on the table