Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) part IV

[NJDevs26]

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[haak84]

RE: Kinkaid proving himself. I also think there is a short period of time where goalies go from unproven to top in the league these days. I'm basing this more on the eye test than stats since his turnaround. Even though both showcase an elite goalie. If he continues his play tile January then it will be a full calendar year of top 10 goaltending. He's at the point in his career where he is going to be most productive before a rapid decline. A 2-3 year window.

I just think keeping Cory is going to increase the likelihood of losing Kinkaid. KK has made it clear in the press that he wants to be a starting goalie. The clout alone from Cory's contract has is enough of a deterrent for a potential starting goalie to be swayed to sign elsewhere.

Devils are in a tight spot. They sign an extension with Kinkaid that might make Cory demand a trade if he thinks he might ride the pine. If they don't and KK keeps up his stellar play than they face the risk of losing a potential above average goalie for nothing. Trade KK when his value is highest and get an OK return since he's an upcoming free agent and risk the possibility that Cory doesn't return to form and possibly declines.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

IF you could tell me that we'd get a really nice asset for either goalie, sure, you would consider trading one.

However, as it stands right now, neither one of these guys is going to return anything of any significant value in a trade. Plus, our organizational goalie depth is not good. Which is why we should just keep them both right now and see where we end up.

 

[NJDevs26]

I still don't see why people are assuming we'd get anything worth moving either goalie for. Cory's value is basically negative right now while KK's trade value is pretty short as a 30-year old UFA with a limited track record.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Greene supposedly was supposed to have his minutes cut, yet he's averaging as close to the same amount of minutes as he has over the past 3-4 seasons.

 

[njdevils1982]

RE: Kinkaid proving himself. I also think there is a short period of time where goalies go from unproven to top in the league these days. I'm basing this more on the eye test than stats since his turnaround. Even though both showcase an elite goalie. If he continues his play tile January then it will be a full calendar year of top 10 goaltending. He's at the point in his career where he is going to be most productive before a rapid decline. A 2-3 year window.

I just think keeping Cory is going to increase the likelihood of losing Kinkaid. KK has made it clear in the press that he wants to be a starting goalie. The clout alone from Cory's contract has is enough of a deterrent for a potential starting goalie to be swayed to sign elsewhere.

Devils are in a tight spot. They sign an extension with Kinkaid that might make Cory demand a trade if he thinks he might ride the pine. If they don't and KK keeps up his stellar play than they face the risk of losing a potential above average goalie for nothing. Trade KK when his value is highest and get an OK return since he's an upcoming free agent and risk the possibility that Cory doesn't return to form and possibly declines.

hmm……

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Thinking Duchene would be an amazing fit for us. Great faceoff guy, very fast, wont cost a lot assets wise and contract wise. Almost a perfect fit.

Id move McLeod++ or a 1st+ for him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Greene supposedly was supposed to have his minutes cut, yet he's averaging as close to the same amount of minutes as he has over the past 3-4 seasons.

and he has been very good so far this year, so who cares?

You really complain about some weird things

 

[Blender]

Greene supposedly was supposed to have his minutes cut, yet he's averaging as close to the same amount of minutes as he has over the past 3-4 seasons.

His minutes are down so far, like most people said they would be. At even strength he averaged 17:48 minutes per game last season, and he's at 16:43 minutes per game so far this season. I'd still like that to drop by another minute, but it's a start.

 

[NJDevs26]

His minutes are down so far, like most people said they would be. At even strength he averaged 17:48 minutes per game last season, and he's at 16:43 minutes per game so far this season. I'd still like that to drop by another minute, but it's a start.

So basically then his overall minutes are level because we're taking more penalties this year.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Thinking Duchene would be an amazing fit for us. Great faceoff guy, very fast, wont cost a lot assets wise and contract wise. Almost a perfect fit.

Id move McLeod++ or a 1st+ for him.

Whaaaaat?

Why do you think he’d be such a great fit for us yet wouldn’t cost much to acquire or sign?

 

[HBK27]

Hard to speculate what the Devils will do at goalie until we see what level Schneider is able to play at following surgery for an injury that may have been impacting him the past couple of seasons.

Given how well Kinkaid has played this season he has to be considered the starter unless Schneider is able to surpass him. Hopefully both can play well and it becomes a 1A/1B situation, but who knows at this point. I don't think the team has any thoughts of trading either one right now and will just let the situation play out.

 

[Triumph]

RE: Kinkaid proving himself. I also think there is a short period of time where goalies go from unproven to top in the league these days. I'm basing this more on the eye test than stats since his turnaround. Even though both showcase an elite goalie. If he continues his play tile January then it will be a full calendar year of top 10 goaltending. He's at the point in his career where he is going to be most productive before a rapid decline. A 2-3 year window.

I just think keeping Cory is going to increase the likelihood of losing Kinkaid. KK has made it clear in the press that he wants to be a starting goalie. The clout alone from Cory's contract has is enough of a deterrent for a potential starting goalie to be swayed to sign elsewhere.

Devils are in a tight spot. They sign an extension with Kinkaid that might make Cory demand a trade if he thinks he might ride the pine. If they don't and KK keeps up his stellar play than they face the risk of losing a potential above average goalie for nothing. Trade KK when his value is highest and get an OK return since he's an upcoming free agent and risk the possibility that Cory doesn't return to form and possibly declines.

You can't just trade goalies mid-season. Who is going to want Keith Kinkaid? Kinkaid has started out this season very well but his career to date is that of an average goalie. Most playoff teams already have an average goalie, or at least a guy they think is average, which amounts to the same thing. If someone has a major goalie injury and was going after a Stanley Cup this season, maybe there will be some interest, but as it stands, average goalies seldom move during the regular season. That's not even addressing the hole that would be left in the Devils' goalie depth if Kinkaid goes - even if Schneider is decent, there's no guaranteeing he can stay healthy. I also see almost no point in dealing Kinkaid for someone else's average goalie.

Absolutely nothing should motivate Ray Shero less than the fear that Cory Schneider might demand a trade. It'll be like when Rolston demanded a trade after being waived by the Devils. It is just not possible to deal Schneider until June. If Schneider plays well this season, even in a backup role, maybe he'll generate some interest if the Devils pick up $2-$3M of his contract. But that would still likely involve the Devils taking some dead money or a bad contract.

This is an off-season issue. Yes, Kinkaid might leave and the Devils might end up with nothing, but a GM can't turn every asset he has into something else without sacrificing the quality of the current team.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yeah, I am getting close to ready to move pretty decent assets to get a legitimate 2C

with how Mueller/Severson have looked so far, that might be our only big weakness right now

 

[Blender]

So basically then his overall minutes are level because we're taking more penalties this year.

Yup. Lovejoy being out probably doesn't help either as he also logs heavy shorthanded minutes. Greene averaged 3:14 of shorthanded minutes per game last year, and he's at 4:37 per game so far this year.

The argument I made along with others in the offseason was that his 5on5 time would go down due to others playing a bit more, and so far that is happening. I'd still like to see Butcher play another minute and Greene to play 1 less, but this is a start. It's not like Greene is playing poorly though, he's been fine, so I don't get why it's a big issue.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well Greene's been centrally involved in a couple of plays leading to costly goals against during the losing streak so that colors the overall perception of him from the critics.

 

[hayen]

You can't just trade goalies mid-season. Who is going to want Keith Kinkaid? Kinkaid has started out this season very well but his career to date is that of an average goalie. Most playoff teams already have an average goalie, or at least a guy they think is average, which amounts to the same thing. If someone has a major goalie injury and was going after a Stanley Cup this season, maybe there will be some interest, but as it stands, average goalies seldom move during the regular season. That's not even addressing the hole that would be left in the Devils' goalie depth if Kinkaid goes - even if Schneider is decent, there's no guaranteeing he can stay healthy. I also see almost no point in dealing Kinkaid for someone else's average goalie.

Absolutely nothing should motivate Ray Shero less than the fear that Cory Schneider might demand a trade. It'll be like when Rolston demanded a trade after being waived by the Devils. It is just not possible to deal Schneider until June. If Schneider plays well this season, even in a backup role, maybe he'll generate some interest if the Devils pick up $2-$3M of his contract. But that would still likely involve the Devils taking some dead money or a bad contract.

This is an off-season issue. Yes, Kinkaid might leave and the Devils might end up with nothing, but a GM can't turn every asset he has into something else without sacrificing the quality of the current team.

Kinkaid deserves recongnition right now and the confidence (like goalie do) to keep him in the right frame of mind to use his ability. If Schneider comes back being the same of 3 years ago then we go with him but right now Keith is good and may be better if the "or else" lays aside for a while. Let him play and feel the love. I don't see any trade talk at this point.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Greene supposedly was supposed to have his minutes cut, yet he's averaging as close to the same amount of minutes as he has over the past 3-4 seasons.

Source? I certainly never heard that, and certainly wouldn't have suspected that. Makes no sense when 1/2 the defense is <= 24.

 

[BenedictGomez]

His minutes are down so far, like most people said they would be. At even strength he averaged 17:48 minutes per game last season, and he's at 16:43 minutes per game so far this season. I'd still like that to drop by another minute, but it's a start.

FACT CHECK: False

Andy Greene 2018 = 21:36
Andy Greene 2017 = 21:07


It's illogical to parse time by PP, SH, ES, in this conversation as ATOI is ATOI regardless of how it's spent.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

His minutes are down so far, like most people said they would be. At even strength he averaged 17:48 minutes per game last season, and he's at 16:43 minutes per game so far this season. I'd still like that to drop by another minute, but it's a start.

He's still playing 21+ minutes a night, which is on par for what he played the past 3-4 seasons. His 5v5 mins need to be dropped at least another minute given how much he's playing on the PK.

And Greene is playing poorly right now, especially in the third period. 4 straight games he's gotten torched for either game winning goals against, tying goals, or goals that cut the lead down.

Last game he was atrocious not just in the third, but all game. 22-8 in favor of the other team when it came to attempts against, and 9-5 shots against and shots for when in the ice. He's only going to get worse as the season drags on since he's old in the hockey world.

 

[Quest for Stanley]

yeah, I am getting close to ready to move pretty decent assets to get a legitimate 2C

with how Mueller/Severson have looked so far, that might be our only big weakness right now

Call up Seney and see what he can do before unloading assets/future draft picks. He’s Bingo’s 1C and dominating

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Call up Seney and see what he can do before unloading assets/future draft picks. He’s Bingo’s 1C and dominating

yes we know you love Seney

thanks Brett

 

[Blender]

FACT CHECK: False

Andy Greene 2018 = 21:36
Andy Greene 2017 = 21:07

The discussion in the offseason was never around his total minutes, it was always about his 5on5 minutes and where he was playing in the lineup. His overall minutes are up because we've been taking a ton of penalties so far this year and we're not sending Butcher out to kill penalties. It's disingenuous to suddenly complain about his overall minutes when that wasn't the previous topic of discussion.

 

[Billdo]

Greene supposedly was supposed to have his minutes cut, yet he's averaging as close to the same amount of minutes as he has over the past 3-4 seasons.

And he's been fine so you're just complaining to complain. It's not a good look.

 

[BenedictGomez]

And he's been fine so you're just complaining to complain. It's not a good look.

The entire defense has played fine this season.

I have absolutely no complaints through 8 games regarding anyone.