Devils 2016-17 team discussion (players news & notes) Part III

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Bleedred

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The bingo ball lines continue. Even Hynes "Pairs" are generally blown up to ****. Such a weird start to the year.

I do appreciate that he at least didn't throw JJ or Kalinin to the 3rd line/top 9.

There's no reason for that this year, certainly not with a healthy lineup on forward.

As I said last night, last year was the year for evaluation and to see what we have. I still believe there should be some evaluation and seeing what we have this year. Just as long as we aren't wasting time on what didn't work last year. We saw enough of those guys in those roles and they failed at it. There should be some kind of improvement this year and having those guys in the top 9 is no improvement.
 

Cheddabombs

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Just from rewatching some highlights and thinking about it more, our defense really kills our offense. Like, I don't watch many other teams other than the Devils but from what I've seen other teams just have much more active defensemen in the offensive zone. They're not just standing stationary at the blue line, shifting across depending on which side of the ice the puck is on. But they're actually moving up and down in the zone, making the wingers always looking out, creating space for themselves to get open for a pass or shot, etc... Ours don't do that at all. We've seen Severson and Auvitu do it a little but when we start to get sustained pressure in the zone it's so ineffective because really it's just the forwards cycling to one another while our defenseman wait.

And maybe that's just the problem with our team, we don't really have defensemen capable of doing that. Severson definitely can and I'd like to see him do it more than he already has. Auvitu can as well but he doesn't get that much ice time currently. I don't remember Moore being active in the offensive zone as of late but maybe that's just me forgetting. And then Lovejoy, Quincey and Greene aren't that good at it and hardly do it. Greene has tried here and there but he just isn't that good of an offensive defenseman contrary to what Shero believes.
 

MichaelJ

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We don't have the assets.

It has been said repeatedly that they want a comparable D for the opposite side for Trouba.

Follow up question - Assuming we prefer Fowler to Trouba, do you think Fowler+ would satisfy WPG when it comes to moving Trouba? If the Devils could acquire Fowler for less by taking on Stoner, then he could potentially be moved for Trouba and the Devils could in essence get Trouba for pennies on the dollar by getting Fowler cheaply. Maybe a 3-team swap could be in order. I look at the Anaheim situation as one where the Devils should be very active in trying to exploit given our tremendous cap space and organizational need to add young, productive NHL defenders.

If we prefer Fowler, we could just deal directly with them and come away with Fowler. If we prefer Trouba, maybe a framework could work -

NJD: Trouba, Stoner
WPG: Fowler, +
ANA: ???
 

MadDevil

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I just don't see a realistic situation where we get Trouba. The price is going to be pretty high and I don't know if we should be paying it at the moment.

Fowler is probably a more realistic target, although admittedly I'm not that much of a fan of his. I think he's a good top 4 guy, and would definitely help, but I don't know how much, or what it would cost to get him.
 

Nubmer6

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I see Fowler as a tad bit better than Severson. I see Trouba as an all-star.
Fowler is probably not worth what we would have to give up to get him.

There have been dreams of getting him for Boucher + a 2nd, and maybe take on one of their other anchor contracts, but I'd want to keep a ton of cap space open due to the upcoming expansion draft. There could be some real bargains to be had.
 

Brodeur

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Follow up question - Assuming we prefer Fowler to Trouba, do you think Fowler+ would satisfy WPG when it comes to moving Trouba?

If I'm in Cheveldayoff's shoes, it'd have to be a significant plus. Fowler's only signed for two more seasons and could bolt in the summer of 2018. I was wrong about Bobby Ryan re-signing in Ottawa, but I'm not sure I'd be confident of Fowler wanting to stick around in Winnipeg. Tough to give up 4 (or more) years of Trouba for possibly 2 (or less) years of Fowler.
 

RSeen

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They want a LHD for Trouba, we don't have what they want. The price to get Trouba would be high regardless.
 

Emperoreddy

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Follow up question - Assuming we prefer Fowler to Trouba, do you think Fowler+ would satisfy WPG when it comes to moving Trouba? If the Devils could acquire Fowler for less by taking on Stoner, then he could potentially be moved for Trouba and the Devils could in essence get Trouba for pennies on the dollar by getting Fowler cheaply. Maybe a 3-team swap could be in order. I look at the Anaheim situation as one where the Devils should be very active in trying to exploit given our tremendous cap space and organizational need to add young, productive NHL defenders.

If we prefer Fowler, we could just deal directly with them and come away with Fowler. If we prefer Trouba, maybe a framework could work -

NJD: Trouba, Stoner
WPG: Fowler, +
ANA: ???

If a Fowler package nets Trouba, why wouldn't the Ducks and Jets just deal directly?
 

NJD1982

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Mar 31, 2007
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If a Fowler package nets Trouba, why wouldn't the Ducks and Jets just deal directly?

The Ducks have no cap space to sign Lindholm who is currently not under contract. If they cant pay him, they definitely cant pay him and Trouba.
 

Bologna 1

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Just from rewatching some highlights and thinking about it more, our defense really kills our offense. Like, I don't watch many other teams other than the Devils but from what I've seen other teams just have much more active defensemen in the offensive zone. They're not just standing stationary at the blue line, shifting across depending on which side of the ice the puck is on. But they're actually moving up and down in the zone, making the wingers always looking out, creating space for themselves to get open for a pass or shot, etc... Ours don't do that at all. We've seen Severson and Auvitu do it a little but when we start to get sustained pressure in the zone it's so ineffective because really it's just the forwards cycling to one another while our defenseman wait.

And maybe that's just the problem with our team, we don't really have defensemen capable of doing that. Severson definitely can and I'd like to see him do it more than he already has. Auvitu can as well but he doesn't get that much ice time currently. I don't remember Moore being active in the offensive zone as of late but maybe that's just me forgetting. And then Lovejoy, Quincey and Greene aren't that good at it and hardly do it. Greene has tried here and there but he just isn't that good of an offensive defenseman contrary to what Shero believes.

Don't you kinda feel like it's the defensive unit as a whole? Like I don't look at it and say "this guy needs to come out of the lineup because he has been awful". I don't think they have enough to really alleviate that issue. Unless you think Santini would be of big time assistance in that area, which I wouldn't think he would make a big difference. Unless you tried to roll Greene with Lovejoy as your shutdown pairing and encourage the other four to be more aggressive in the o Zone. Which again, I don't know that they have the types of blue liners to do so.
 

Wingman77

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14572353_10154656971629583_9067890344248147212_n.jpg
 

Cheddabombs

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Don't you kinda feel like it's the defensive unit as a whole? Like I don't look at it and say "this guy needs to come out of the lineup because he has been awful". I don't think they have enough to really alleviate that issue. Unless you think Santini would be of big time assistance in that area, which I wouldn't think he would make a big difference. Unless you tried to roll Greene with Lovejoy as your shutdown pairing and encourage the other four to be more aggressive in the o Zone. Which again, I don't know that they have the types of blue liners to do so.

Yea it's definitely the defense unit as a whole, though some are better in that regard than others it's not by much. Perhaps it's a coaching philosophy or system but I don't get it. Having our defensemen stationary on the blue line, not moving up or down limits our offensive potential by so much. Like currently when you hear "it's all pressure time for the Devils right now" from Steve this is more often than not what he's alluding to

halfice.jpg


Is that really effective? How easy is that to defend though? Our defenseman just stay there waiting to keep the puck in if the other team clears it. Or if our forwards pass it back we get a weak wrist shot from the defenseman along the boards, which has pretty much a negative percent chance to go in. Or they'll go D to D and the other defensemen will proceed to fire off another weak wrist shot, often they drift over to the other sides of the boards to do so, or they'll dump it back into the corner for some more cycle action.

Even if they pose little to no offensive threat (Lovejoy, Greene, etc) I'd love to see our defensemen more active in the offensive zone. Not just pinching up along the boards to keep the puck in. Have the far side Dman move into the slot, switch with the wingers to create some havoc do something for crying out loud.
 

Kurt Cobain

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We need to play Hall with our most talented players. Play him with Palmieri and Henrique, I don't care if it's a little top heavy, but I just think it needs to be done to generate offense at even strength. I think our offense will be better than what these first 4 games have shown in the long run. Tons of new players and it's gonna take 10-15 games for everyone to adjust at the very least and that's offense and defense. We need to be patient before we give up on the season. We have to have the largest amount in player turnover from last season to this season and that matters tremendously.

Hall-Henrique-Palmieri
Cammalleri-Zajac-Parenteau/Bennett
Boucher-Zacha-Bennett/Parenteau
Josefson-Fiddler-DSP
 
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RSeen

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Is a team really going to give another team two of their first overalls? I doubt it.

It does not matter where they were drafted, if thats the thinking that is going on with a team, it is clearly flawed and quite frankly nonsense. I've read Oilers were willing to trade Yak for Gelinas. It clearly wouldn't have worked out, but do you think that would stop them from trading Hall for Larsson?
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

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It does not matter where they were drafted, if thats the thinking that is going on with a team, it is clearly flawed and quite frankly nonsense. I've read Oilers were willing to trade Yak for Gelinas. It clearly wouldn't have worked out, but do you think that would stop them from trading Hall for Larsson?

I don't think the Oilers would be willing to give us two of their first overalls, no. You clearly do, and blame Shero for us not having Hall and Yakupov, and the only reason people around here were interested in Yakupov is the first overall label, so let's not act as if that has zero bearing. If Yakupov was a third round pick, I doubt fans around here would be mad that Shero didn't acquire him.
 
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