Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings Prospect Thread 2017-18 I

[ChadS]

Concerns about Vilardi were overblown but concerns about Rasmussen were not? Double standard.

The way the draft/lottery played out was unfortunate. I sympathize with fans who see us pass on these guys who were ranked high throughout the year. Chychrun, Liljegren, and Vilardi were all names that we were led to believe unattainable only to watch them passed up. Perhaps next time we don't drop twice, or even we may win the damn thing.

Many if not most rankings, including McKenzie's scout consensus, had Rasmussen several spots ahead of Liljegren.

 

[Marky9er]

Many if not most rankings, including McKenzie's scout consensus, had Rasmussen several spots ahead of Liljegren.

In November? Year before when Liljegren was being hyped as a top 2 pick? Was there not a time when he was as unrealistic as Svechnikov is right now? I know he tumbled in the end, that's why I mentioned him. I don't think anyone actually wanted to pick him by the draft so maybe I should have left him out. His fall was spectacular. I remember joking that him being available would require a Chychrun like freefall.

 

[ChadS]

In November? Year before when Liljegren was being hyped as a top 2 pick? Was there not a time when he was as unrealistic as Svechnikov is right now? I know he tumbled in the end, that's why I mentioned him. I don't think anyone actually wanted to pick him by the draft so maybe I should have left him out. His fall was spectacular. I remember joking that him being available would require a Chychrun like freefall.

Ok sorry I missed the November part. But all that really matters are the final rankings... Vilardi is the one out of those 3 who had the biggest fall on draft day, when comparing to the McKenzie list which I consider best at least for the top 15-20 picks.

 

[izlez]

Looks like Saarijarvi had 2 goals and 3 assists in the last 3 games over the long weekend

Not really sure what we should be expecting with him in the ECHL, but points are better than not points

 

[ChadS]

Looks like Saarijarvi had 2 goals and 3 assists in the last 3 games over the long weekend

Not really sure what we should be expecting with him in the ECHL, but points are better than not points

Here's his 2 goals from Friday:

 

[newfy]

In November? Year before when Liljegren was being hyped as a top 2 pick? Was there not a time when he was as unrealistic as Svechnikov is right now? I know he tumbled in the end, that's why I mentioned him. I don't think anyone actually wanted to pick him by the draft so maybe I should have left him out. His fall was spectacular. I remember joking that him being available would require a Chychrun like freefall.

You know who else the wings did draft that fell like that? Riley Sheahan, rated top 5 going into his draft year and "fell" to the wings, what a steal! Final draft rankings are what matter most

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Saarijarvi is just too good to be playing in the ECHL. I can't believe the Griffins haven't made room for him.

 

[Ulysses31]

Where did I say I had concerns about Rasmussen's skating?
My concern with Rasmussen is that he lacks dynamic skill.
I feel like we drafted Riley Sheahan deluxe. A guy who is big and should play in the NHL, but not the kind of talent you want from your first top 10 pick in the NHL.

I watched Rasmussen, Kotkansalo, Lindstrom (as well as Dahlin and a whole host of recently drafted and not-yet drafted prospects).
As I watched guys who I wanted in the draft (Vilardi was not there) like Liljegren and Farrance (92nd to Nashville), and I watched our guys, I couldn't believe our picks. Our guys weren't even close.
I looked over and saw Mike Babcock smiling ear to ear as Liljegren did his best Erik Karlsson impression.

I seriously don't understand last year's draft at all. And I don't think Tyler Wright has done very well explaining what the hell it was all about.

All that said - Rasmussen impressed me in the pre-season wearing the Winged Wheel. And I hope as many of these picks make it as possible.

Didnt see sheahan at all as a junior but e a Rasmussen looks to me to have serious nose for the net. I see a 30 goal auston matthews-lite second or even first line center who can score ugly and pretty goals alike.

 

[Frk It]

You know who else the wings did draft that fell like that? Riley Sheahan, rated top 5 going into his draft year and "fell" to the wings, what a steal! Final draft rankings are what matter most

I think you are thinking of John McFarland? I don't ever recall Sheahan being ranked top 5 or top 10 leading up to that draft.

Pulkkinen was actually a top 5-10 guy leading up to his draft year, that same draft. He's maybe the best example of us taking a faller who was previously ranked high. AA is probably another example, to a lesser extent.

 

[TheMule93]

Saarijarvi is just too good to be playing in the ECHL. I can't believe the Griffins haven't made room for him.

Its a real shame, its going to stunt his development probably.

 

[ChadS]

I think you are thinking of John McFarland? I don't ever recall Sheahan being ranked top 5 or top 10 leading up to that draft.

He was 5th on the CS NA mid-term list: 2010 Draft Prospect Rankings | NHL Draft Prospect Rankings
But I don't remember him being top-5 or top-10 on full lists either.

Just noticed that Marchenko was #12 on the final Euro list for 2010 which was ahead of Järnkrok and Pulkkinen. He went undrafted and we got him at #205 the next year (ranked EU#25). He had injuries and all that but never knew he was ranked so high.

 

[Redder Winger]

He was 5th on the CS NA mid-term list: 2010 Draft Prospect Rankings | NHL Draft Prospect Rankings
But I don't remember him being top-5 or top-10 on full lists either.

Just noticed that Marchenko was #12 on the final Euro list for 2010 which was ahead of Järnkrok and Pulkkinen. He went undrafted and we got him at #205 the next year (ranked EU#25). He had injuries and all that but never knew he was ranked so high.

Marchenko was a good NHL defenseman.
You could play him in defensive zone situations and he kept the puck out of the net. Yeah, he's a slowish skater. But my god, I watch the shitshow we see on a nightly basis and wonder what the f*** the Red Wings were thinking.

 

[raymond23]

Marchenko was a good NHL defenseman.
You could play him in defensive zone situations and he kept the puck out of the net. Yeah, he's a slowish skater. But my god, I watch the ****show we see on a nightly basis and wonder what the **** the Red Wings were thinking.

Ah yes another talentless, mediocre defenseman. Exactly what this team needs.

 

[Ezekial]

Ah yes another talentless, mediocre defenseman. Exactly what this team needs.

Redder has a thing for Marchenko, but heaven forbid if Nick Jensen makes a minor error. Not that I love Jensen, but I don't see the disconnect. Weirdly Jurco and Pulkky would be on the team still too if he had his way.

Good NHL defenseman don't leave the league at 25.

 

[newfy]

I think you are thinking of John McFarland? I don't ever recall Sheahan being ranked top 5 or top 10 leading up to that draft.

Pulkkinen was actually a top 5-10 guy leading up to his draft year, that same draft. He's maybe the best example of us taking a faller who was previously ranked high. AA is probably another example, to a lesser extent.

North American Skaters Midterm Rankings | NHL.com - 2010 NHL Entry Draft

So he was the 5th ranked NA skater,which would likely have him projected to go in the top 7 or 8 at least at midterm. So halfway through the year he was ranked about 7th in the draft. Pulkkinen is just another example of a huge faller the wings lucked into but really turned into absolutely nothing. Frk was the same thing, concussion issues but was projected top 5 the year before his draft. Liljegren who I'm seeing mentioned has really done nothing to say he should go ahead of Rasmussen to this point. Chychrun made the worst franchise in the NHL and didnt look all that good as a rookie and people still complain, its not like he had a Tyler Myers rookie season.

People need to realize that these players usually fall for a reason. Some fallers work out like a Brandon Saad, but really hes only a 50 point player not some future super star. So getting your panties in a bunch about players who dropped in a draft that wasnt supposed to be all that good in the first place isnt worth the effort. Tyler Biggs was rated top 5 at midterm

 

[Frk It]

North American Skaters Midterm Rankings | NHL.com - 2010 NHL Entry Draft

So he was the 5th ranked NA skater,which would likely have him projected to go in the top 7 or 8 at least at midterm. So halfway through the year he was ranked about 7th in the draft. Pulkkinen is just another example of a huge faller the wings lucked into but really turned into absolutely nothing. Frk was the same thing, concussion issues but was projected top 5 the year before his draft. Liljegren who I'm seeing mentioned has really done nothing to say he should go ahead of Rasmussen to this point. Chychrun made the worst franchise in the NHL and didnt look all that good as a rookie and people still complain, its not like he had a Tyler Myers rookie season.

People need to realize that these players usually fall for a reason. Some fallers work out like a Brandon Saad, but really hes only a 50 point player not some future super star. So getting your panties in a bunch about players who dropped in a draft that wasnt supposed to be all that good in the first place isnt worth the effort. Tyler Biggs was rated top 5 at midterm

Late fallers or late risers are always dicey. Guys who gradually fall or rise over the course of a season, not so much.

But at the end of the day, it's all situational. Getzlaf and Fowler were also fallers. So it can cut both ways. You shouldn't just like anyone that was once ranked high, I agree with you there. Have to have a bit of your own opinion and also consider if they are a good fit for your team.

 

[Redder Winger]

Ah yes another talentless, mediocre defenseman. Exactly what this team needs.

I prefer "talentless mediocre defensemen" who keep the puck out of the net.

Defenseman - Goals against vs Dzone starts
Kindl 1.63 vs 24.81
Marchenko 1.89 vs 33.33
Quincey 2.03 vs 30.04
XO 2.03 vs 31.59
Smith 2.06 vs 28.46
Kronwall 2.29 vs 29.9
Ericsson 2.3 vs 33.06
Green 2.3 vs 26.65
Dekeyser 2.36 vs 31.63
Jensen 2.96 vs 27.67

Marchenko had the highest defensive zone deployment on the defense over those three years - and the second lowest goals against.

If you look at his PK - he was also second best in goals against
XO 4.2
Marchenko 6.03
Smith 6.23
Quincey 6.55
Ericsson 6.8
Kronwall 7.27
Dekeyser 7.45

There's a reason for this.
1) Marchenko was smart positionally.
2) He won far more board battles than he lost, often taking the hit to make the play. But usually using better body positioning to make a good play.
3) Even if he wasn't quick, he was a good passer.

By the way, is Nick Jensen improving this year?
No sir.
Not at all.
He's getting worse.
Once again he's the worst on the team at 3.07 goals against.
That's the 22nd worst in the NHL among defensemen with 250 minutes played.

 

[Redder Winger]

North American Skaters Midterm Rankings | NHL.com - 2010 NHL Entry Draft

So he was the 5th ranked NA skater,which would likely have him projected to go in the top 7 or 8 at least at midterm. So halfway through the year he was ranked about 7th in the draft. Pulkkinen is just another example of a huge faller the wings lucked into but really turned into absolutely nothing. Frk was the same thing, concussion issues but was projected top 5 the year before his draft. Liljegren who I'm seeing mentioned has really done nothing to say he should go ahead of Rasmussen to this point. Chychrun made the worst franchise in the NHL and didnt look all that good as a rookie and people still complain, its not like he had a Tyler Myers rookie season.

People need to realize that these players usually fall for a reason. Some fallers work out like a Brandon Saad, but really hes only a 50 point player not some future super star. So getting your panties in a bunch about players who dropped in a draft that wasnt supposed to be all that good in the first place isnt worth the effort. Tyler Biggs was rated top 5 at midterm

If a player falls because he sucks, fine. I'd still take a risk on him with a lower pick though.
If a player falls because of injury or mono or something....

 

[lomekian]

Agree that Marchenko, though unremarkable was actually a better d-man than his treatment suggests. That said, he took a step back after his injury and fell foul of the numbers game. He's doing well in Russia this year. I always liked him, but he needed a skater alongside him...and at the time that was Green or Smith. Green needs to be higher up the line up, and Smith didn't really make his partners better...

 

[Lampedampe]

Agree that Marchenko, though unremarkable was actually a better d-man than his treatment suggests. That said, he took a step back after his injury and fell foul of the numbers game. He's doing well in Russia this year. I always liked him, but he needed a skater alongside him...and at the time that was Green or Smith. Green needs to be higher up the line up, and Smith didn't really make his partners better...

Agreed, I think people are forgetting that he looked very solid in the beginning of his short nhl career, and definitely looked like a good 7th round pick (I think everyone here liked him in the beginning tbh). Then injuries happened and over night he became slower and softer, which doesn't spell well for a defensive defenseman. It didn't seem like could fill a role on the roster, he got too soft to win board battles and clear the crease consistently, he didn't have a great first pass and he definitely couldn't skate the puck.

 

[TheMule93]

Svechnikov with 4 points in 14 games. Whats up with him?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Where did I say I had concerns about Rasmussen's skating?
My concern with Rasmussen is that he lacks dynamic skill.
I feel like we drafted Riley Sheahan deluxe. A guy who is big and should play in the NHL, but not the kind of talent you want from your first top 10 pick in the NHL.

I watched Rasmussen, Kotkansalo, Lindstrom (as well as Dahlin and a whole host of recently drafted and not-yet drafted prospects).
As I watched guys who I wanted in the draft (Vilardi was not there) like Liljegren and Farrance (92nd to Nashville), and I watched our guys, I couldn't believe our picks. Our guys weren't even close.
I looked over and saw Mike Babcock smiling ear to ear as Liljegren did his best Erik Karlsson impression.

I seriously don't understand last year's draft at all. And I don't think Tyler Wright has done very well explaining what the hell it was all about.

All that said - Rasmussen impressed me in the pre-season wearing the Winged Wheel. And I hope as many of these picks make it as possible.

Liljegren was a total gamble pick. Yeah, there's a small chance he ends up great, but a very big chance he either busts completely or becomes mediocre. I guess it's a question of what philosophy you want the the Wings to have at the draft table. Go all-in and risk ending up with nothing? Or make a "safer" pick that ensures you at least end up with a player that can help you? Personally, I think there are enough high-upside d-men available later in the draft to make a gamble like Liljegren in the top 10. At 15, it was a good value gamble. At #9.. you want a player.

As for Kotkansalo/Lindstrom/etc.. we'll see. It's early as hell. But we drafted some big d-men that actually seem able to skate pretty well, that always means there's upside. Maybe there's a Parayko or at least an Ericsson in there.

Svechnikov with 4 points in 14 games. Whats up with him?

Really, really disappointing season for him so far. Hopefully it's just a slow start after the injury and he does what he did last year and starts to heat up soon.

 

[Redder Winger]

Liljegren was a total gamble pick. Yeah, there's a small chance he ends up great, but a very big chance he either busts completely or becomes mediocre. I guess it's a question of what philosophy you want the the Wings to have at the draft table. Go all-in and risk ending up with nothing? Or make a "safer" pick that ensures you at least end up with a player that can help you? Personally, I think there are enough high-upside d-men available later in the draft to make a gamble like Liljegren in the top 10. At 15, it was a good value gamble. At #9.. you want a player.

As for Kotkansalo/Lindstrom/etc.. we'll see. It's early as hell. But we drafted some big d-men that actually seem able to skate pretty well, that always means there's upside. Maybe there's a Parayko or at least an Ericsson in there.

.

They don't skate that well. That's my concern. Both guys have 4 years, right? So no hurry. I hope Andersson has some kind of spidey sense, but I saw nothing impressive.
What I saw of Liljegren was an NHL talent. He might never be very good defensively, but he's going to score a lot of points in the NHL.

 

[SuperScript29]

You know who else the wings did draft that fell like that? Riley Sheahan, rated top 5 going into his draft year and "fell" to the wings, what a steal! Final draft rankings are what matter most

Agreed, though I'm not sure if I remember Sheahan ever reaching that high. I do however remember that Kindl was top-3 early on in his draft year, then fell as the year progressed while he played with the Kitchener Rangers, I suppose we took the risk because we thought he had the talent and was adapting to NA style.

 

[Winger98]

Svechnikov with 4 points in 14 games. Whats up with him?

he was hurt early and missed a lot of camp/pre-season games. I think the effect that has on guys is understated at times. I think it's been hampering Jensen, too.