Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #2

Who do you think is the Detroit Red Wings #2 Overall Prospect?


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    174
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Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,884
14,991
Sweden
I'm glad Berggren has his superfans. That's not a slight, I've been a superfan of other prospects. And I do really like Berggren. I think you guys are living on the very high end of what he may be. Nothing wrong with that and I hope he does reach his absolute ceiling. We'll see. We'll have to circle back on these discussions in the future ;)

I don't like how disrespectful you've both been to Gustav Nyquist though :laugh:
you literally said his ceiling is Nyquist. Explaining why one thinks his ceiling is higher isn’t the same thing as thinking he will for sure reach it.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,884
14,991
Sweden
I don’t know what Berggren you watch, but the one thing that always stands out to me is how he constantly moves his feet in the offensive zone like a buzz saw, not so much a cerebral offensive threat

Like if you took Nyquist’s OT goal where he carries the puck and circles the net twice and replaced him with Berggren, I don’t think I would even bat an eye.

They both do better with the puck on their stick, both have a tendency to drift wide in the offensive zone, both have a tendency to try to distribute more than they do shooting.

Nyquist was a more polished defensive player, but not a drastically different level. And Nyquist’s shot is better, but their preference to play set up man kind of renders this kind of moot.

Berggren might think the game better, I can’t pretend to substantiate that based on the difference in league quality and style, but even if he does, I expect it to manifest itself in a similar type of player.

This isn’t a knock on Berggren. Nyquist’s best was that of a first line player, albeit not a special one. If Berggren ultimately makes it as a true and deserving top 6 winger, the draft pick was smashed out of the park.
Wingerli was for sure the buzz-saw on that line, Berggren would hang back on forecheck situations and read the play.

He moves his feet but isn’t afraid to turn back if he runs into traffic- Nyquist imo was more straight-line player.

Similarities exist but Berggren is Michael Nylander more than Nyquist.
 
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r0bert8841

Registered User
Jan 2, 2009
7,635
770
Michigan
This is easily Raymond. When it comes to Berggen, people are putting way too much stock into gis SHL numbers. He does not play a North American game. Very perimeter and one dimensional. He has a very high ceiling but he has prove he can produce in NA before he is on the level of Raymond/Edvisson/Cossa.
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
13,270
8,486
you literally said his ceiling is Nyquist. Explaining why one thinks his ceiling is higher isn’t the same thing as thinking he will for sure reach it.

For the sake of clarity regarding my position:

- These two players are extremely similar at the same age. You'd be hard-pressed to find many examples of two players more similar. The stated differences mentioned in this thread are exaggerated.
- Berggren's ceiling is that of Nyquist, certainly no higher, and I give him a relatively small chance to reach it. More likely, he's a poor man's Nyquist.
- Berggren still has several developmental hurdles to overcome, and with any player where that's the case, including all prospects, his range of outcomes remains wide. That's why I can only give him a small chance of having Nyquist's career.
If your position is different, then we disagree about Jonatan Berggren :cheers:
 

RabidBadger

Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
Sep 9, 2007
3,280
1,500
Detroitish
Went with Raymond. I think the dude has the steak and the sizzle. I generally base my picks on upside. The one upside I think Raymond has over the others is the potential to be a game-breaking talent.

Edvinsson was a tempting choice here. Add McIsaac, por favor.
 
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Christien

Registered User
May 1, 2010
5,127
3,525
Are you a fan of Tuomisto? Go ahead and try and sell me on him, if so. I was never really a fan of that pick.
Fair, I like Tuomisto. I think his skating has gotten better ever since he was drafted, which was something I was pretty worried about after we drafted him. Here's a clip of him rushing the puck that's really impressive. Pretty rare to see big guys move like that:

He's a good passer as well, really good on breakouts, and was pretty consistent last season at that. Here's another clip

I just think there's a lot to like about his game and I'm really encouraged about what I saw as his season went on last year in Denver. Think they're gonna lean on him pretty heavily next season. Definitely gonna be watching a lot of his games again this upcoming season with all our guys there.
 

Fil Larkmanthanasiou

Registered User
Feb 10, 2018
1,116
603
I know the Larsson comparison is thrown out there in part because it was a more recent draft and because they're both big Swedish defensemen drafted in the top 10, but I don't know if that's a great comparable.

Maybe...Jay Bouwmeester fits better? Big, great skater, we wonder if the offense will translate or if he'll just be a defensive D but has solid defensive instincts that are easy to project. If Edvinsson can become Florida Bouwmeester and get 40 points a season we got ourselves an 8+ million dollar defenseman. If he becomes St. Louis Bouwmeester we got ourselves a really solid #2 or #3 guy.
I think he will be like a more physical Bouwmeester but I doubt that he will be much more productive.
 

Fil Larkmanthanasiou

Registered User
Feb 10, 2018
1,116
603
I didn't like the Edvinsson pick on draft day. And while I haven't changed my opinion on the amount of risk attached to his ceiling (still more than average potential for him to not reach it), where I've come around a bit is on his floor. His floor is pretty high. Even if his offense and puck-handling never come around, his skating and defensive ability should allow him to be a rock in the top-4. I think busting altogether is extremely unlikely.
Sproul was a great skater with a great shot to boot (Edvinsson shot is weak)
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
13,270
8,486
Sproul was a great skater with a great shot to boot (Edvinsson shot is weak)

Well, like I said, Edvinsson is also defensively competent in addition to having the skating, whereas Sproul was defensively incompetent with an exceptionally low hockey IQ. And because of that Sproul was the boom-or-bust prospect he was tabbed as from the outset, regardless of skating or shot. Edvinsson, because of the defensive competence, has an actual NHL floor.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
15,042
7,252
Sproul was a great skater with a great shot to boot (Edvinsson shot is weak)

yeah sometimes GMs make weird choices though

like all those teams that were tanking for McDavid when Jeremy Bracco was right there who was also good at skating and had a nice shot
 

jaster

Take me off ignore, please.
Jun 8, 2007
13,270
8,486
Raymond, add Tuomisto. Berggren will be at least as good as Nyquist, minimum. Fight me

9ed133aab4f7c4688c5e0d70efac1254.gif
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,213
12,204
Tampere, Finland
Maybe...Jay Bouwmeester fits better? Big, great skater, we wonder if the offense will translate or if he'll just be a defensive D but has solid defensive instincts that are easy to project. If Edvinsson can become Florida Bouwmeester and get 40 points a season we got ourselves an 8+ million dollar defenseman. If he becomes St. Louis Bouwmeester we got ourselves a really solid #2 or #3 guy.

I definitely see "Bouwmeester" in Edvinsson. DeKeyser was compared to be same, but hasn't had same strength as Bouwmeester, who was unbelieveable strong. Edvinsson's body seemed very massive and strong on pictures I've seen. That body is just huge and if that moves wel.... he is a nightmare to play against.
 

Christoph53

Registered User
Jan 28, 2021
258
396
Lucas Raymond for me without a doubt, because of his star potential and I just love how he plays the game.

I'd add Tuomisto
 

waltdetroit

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,649
526
Nyquist led the Maine Bears in points in all of his three seasons, and was the NCAA's regular season scoring leader in the 2009–10 season. In 2010, he was 2nd in the Hobey Baker Award. He was very good at the same age as Berggren.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,627
3,515
I went Edvinsson here. He was a guy I eyed before the draft and I really like his upside.

I'm still a tiny bit iffy on Raymond, and Berggren. It might happen within a shift or two, but I still feel like I need to see them in a Red Wings jersey before I'm 100% convinced they will be good in the NHL
 

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