Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #2

[The Zetterberg Era]

1.) Moritz Seider - RD - 20: 6'4" 207 lbs - RH Shot - Zell, GER - 96.2%

Unsurprisingly Mo Seider took home round 1. Viro was the add by 1 over Tuomisto.






As always vote, discuss and nominate your add for the next round.

Click to read more...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lucas Raymond is my vote here, Tuomisto is my add.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

1 and 2 are locked with a bullet. Everything beyond that is far more open to subjective opinion. I think 3-6 especially can be rather interchangeable.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Went with Raymond. The offensive tools are just so off the charts good. He really does have every skill necessary to be an elite scoring forward. He's shown a penchant for performing well in big games and he fills our need for a top tier playmaker.

I wish he'd managed to produce a little better this year... I know that his ice time and the system weren't perfect for putting up big points, but I'd still have liked more. It makes the projection of his skills to the NHL level feel safer if he's already getting the results we'd want in Sweden.

Berggren is also great, had crazy good numbers and a lot of talent. He's older though and has had his career progression really delayed by injuries. I just think that Raymond's ceiling is higher.

I also considered Edvinsson. To be totally honest, I think he's very much in the same tier as Raymond. The big difference is that Raymond is a one year older, less raw and thus closer to being an NHL player and easier to project as an impactful one. I'm really confident that Edvinsson will be a great second pairing D that can lug the puck up ice and shut down everything in the neutral zone. Can he be more than that? Absolutely, but I'm less confident projecting him as a 1D than Raymond as a 1W.

 

[HisNoodliness]

1 and 2 are locked with a bullet. Everything beyond that is far more open to subjective opinion. I think 3-6 especially can be rather interchangeable.

Personally I see it as a clear top 4:
Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Berggren. After those 4, I'll have to really think about who I want next. Probably Veleno, but there's lots of guys I like, but no one I love.

 

[newfy]

1 and 2 are locked with a bullet. Everything beyond that is far more open to subjective opinion. I think 3-6 especially can be rather interchangeable.

It should be an easy vote for Edvinsson next, with a few votes for Berggren. I have no clue how people are down on him. You think theres potentially 6 better prospects in Detroits system than Edvinsson right now? Absolutely no chance

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It should be an easy vote for Edvinsson next, with a few votes for Berggren. I have no clue how people are down on him. You think theres potentially 6 better prospects in Detroits system than Edvinsson right now? Absolutely no chance

I don't think everyone appreciates what a freak that guy is yet... It is coming.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think Berggren (for now) is 2A while Raymond is 2b.

Berggren put up great numbers as a 20 year old after very little playing time and recovering from injuries sustained the last two seasons. 2nd highest assist total by a player under 21 in SHL history puts him up there with some NHL greats, and he did this with very limited icetime.

Raymond didn't put up those numbers in the SHL and at times looked outmatched physically. (Which is to be expected of an 18 year old in a men's league) I think it's entirely possible for Raymond to do what Berggren did in the SHL and I think they have very similar potential as NHL scorers. Raymond may be the better goalscorer and better defensively when moving up but Berggren can put in the work defensively to be average to above average.

For me right now Berggren is closer to realizing his actual potential than Raymond, and that's why I vote for him as #2.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Berggren (for now) is 2A while Raymond is 2b.

Berggren put up great numbers as a 20 year old after very little playing time and recovering from injuries sustained the last two seasons. 2nd highest assist total by a player under 21 in SHL history puts him up there with some NHL greats, and he did this with very limited icetime.

Raymond didn't put up those numbers in the SHL and at times looked outmatched physically at times. (Which is to be expected of an 18 year old in a men's league) I think it's entirely possible for Raymond to do what Berggren did in the SHL and I think they have very similar potential as NHL scorers. Raymond may be the better goalscorer and better defensively when moving up but Berggren can put in the work defensively to be average to above average.

For me right now Berggren is closer to realizing his actual potential than Raymond, and that's why I vote for him as #2.

I don't necessarily agree, but I appreciate the argument.

I am curious to see Berggren in NA this year, he can become a little too perimeter still at times, though I think he took big strides away from that this year. Still I think there will be some adjustment, one of the things I really like about Raymond is he takes the middle a lot, it is one of those superstar offensive tendencies. I think Raymond just has better tools and instincts, but I can understand the hey this guy was better in the same league argument. For the record Ras similar age gap has been a lot better than Veleno in the AHL, I don't really see that argument being used by a lot of the people that love Veleno, so I think there are flaws to that angle especially for those that skew on this exercise more to just projecting the players as NHL guys and what their ceiling there is. But it isn't an exact science, I certainly appreciate having a different list, hopefully Berggren can build off last year, it was great to see him rebound through all of those injuries.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

It's a coin-flip between Raymond and Edvinsson for me. I think both bring a lot of upside with reasonably high floors.

From that, I'm going to give it to Edvinsson, as I think what he brings to the table in terms of physical tools is so rare.

 

[newfy]

I don't think everyone appreciates what a freak that guy is yet... It is coming.

I mean they should already. He was a top 3 guy in Bobby Macks rankings all year. For some reason, tonnes of people shit on him after a few bloggers wrote about him.

Ill trust Mckenzie

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't necessarily agree, but I appreciate the argument.

I am curious to see Berggren in NA this year, he can become a little too perimeter still at times, though I think he took big strides away from that this year. Still I think there will be some adjustment, one of the things I really like about Raymond is he takes the middle a lot, it is one of those superstar offensive tendencies. I think Raymond just has better tools and instincts, but I can understand the hey this guy was better in the same league argument. For the record Ras similar age gap has been a lot better than Veleno in the AHL, I don't really see that argument being used by a lot of the people that love Veleno, so I think there are flaws to that angle especially for those that skew on this exercise more to just projecting the players as NHL guys and what their ceiling there is. But it isn't an exact science, I certainly appreciate having a different list, hopefully Berggren can build off last year, it was great to see him rebound through all of those injuries.

In the past he was definitely more of a perimeter player. Berggren went on the record and said that he had conversations with Kronwall and Kronwall told Berggren to work towards the middle on the attack more. That's been a big reason for his SHL season in 2021 being so successful.

As far as Veleno vs. Rasmussen goes, Veleno went to the AHL in his D+2 and for the first 30 games or so was objectively bad and looked out of place. Upon returning from the WJC he was scoring at a much higher pace and looked like a completely different player. I forget who posted the breakdown but it was something like a 0.3ppg pace prior to the WJC break and around a 0.5+ ppg pace after the WJC break. Ras did outperform him early in the year but after his hamstring injury Veleno and Chase Pearson looked better all around. And for what it's worth I think that Veleno's skating and stickhandling will allow him to be a better player at the NHL level because the game is a lot more possession oriented than the AHL is. Veleno has the potential to be a pretty good possession style player.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

It should be an easy vote for Edvinsson next, with a few votes for Berggren. I have no clue how people are down on him. You think theres potentially 6 better prospects in Detroits system than Edvinsson right now? Absolutely no chance

Perhaps. I think Edvinsson was overrated in a weak draft class. The issues in his game are incredibly difficult to teach out of him and I think while he has a high ceiling, it’s incredibly unlikely he reaches it. I’ll probably still vote for him next because that raw upside does exist, but anyone who chooses to vote for Berggren, Cossa, or Johansson over him, I completely understand. I understand some might think it’s crazy to rank Johansson over Edvinsson, but I think it’s far more likely he develops into a middle pairing defenseman than Edvinsson. Frankly, I think there’s a distinct possibility that Edvinsson busts altogether. So. That’s why people are down on him.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

In the past he was definitely more of a perimeter player. Berggren went on the record and said that he had conversations with Kronwall and Kronwall told Berggren to work towards the middle on the attack more. That's been a big reason for his SHL season in 2021 being so successful.

As far as Veleno vs. Rasmussen goes, Veleno went to the AHL in his D+2 and for the first 30 games or so was objectively bad and looked out of place. Upon returning from the WJC he was scoring at a much higher pace and looked like a completely different player. I forget who posted the breakdown but it was something like a 0.3ppg pace prior to the WJC break and around a 0.5+ ppg pace after the WJC break. Ras did outperform him early in the year but after his hamstring injury Veleno and Chase Pearson looked better all around. And for what it's worth I think that Veleno's skating and stickhandling will allow him to be a better player at the NHL level because the game is a lot more possession oriented than the AHL is. Veleno has the potential to be a pretty good possession style player.

I actually kind of think that Veleno - Ras - Berggren winds up being our very good third line. I could see them working well together and they would have enough defense and battle. Ras and Veleno could switch assignments at center and allow for it to be a very fluid line. We will see, just saying I like those parts when I think about it and I think it is a line that you could trust to play no matter who is out there as they mature.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Perhaps. I think Edvinsson was overrated in a weak draft class. The issues in his game are incredibly difficult to teach out of him and I think while he has a high ceiling, it’s incredibly unlikely he reaches it. I’ll probably still vote for him next because that raw upside does exist, but anyone who chooses to vote for Berggren, Cossa, or Johansson over him, I completely understand. I understand some might think it’s crazy to rank Johansson over Edvinsson, but I think it’s far more likely he develops into a middle pairing defenseman than Edvinsson. Frankly, I think there’s a distinct possibility that Edvinsson busts altogether. So. That’s why people are down on him.

I think his worst case scenario is kind of the way people have come to feel about Risto in Buffalo. We will have to see how it goes in Philly. Given just where Edvinsson is athletically it is hard to see him not getting a bunch of games in the top 4 for a bunch of years. Bust altogether seems a bit extreme. Guys like him play in the league, he is an athletic unicorn, he is a guy that is going to have to prove he can't for a long time before NHL talent evaluators give up on him.

While this wasn't a crazy draft in terms of overall elite talent, there are still going to be some very good players out of it. You just don't have the known top end guy, it has been a while since we have seen it. Edvinsson does have that kind of ceiling, like some have said expecting that might be a bit extreme. One thing I will say that excites me, when he gets to the NHL he is going to have a couple of young leaders in Seider and probably Hronek to help him adjust. I think that is going to help a ton, guys that have just gone through getting better in this league. If Edvinsson and Seider become a pairing I am going to be so excited.

Thor - Mjolnir

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I think his worst case scenario is kind of the way people have come to feel about Risto in Buffalo. We will have to see how it goes in Philly. Given just where Edvinsson is athletically it is hard to see him not getting a bunch of games in the top 4 for a bunch of years. Bust altogether seems a bit extreme. Guys like him play in the league, he is an athletic unicorn, he is a guy that is going to have to prove he can't for a long time before NHL talent evaluators give up on him.

That would be a total disaster, imo. Ristolainen is a terrible defenseman and has been for half a decade. Buffalo playing him 23-25 minutes a night was a major contributor to why they lost as many games as they over that span. I understand there were seasons where there weren’t many better options, like what we find ourselves in with Hronek, but as their blue line did improve and they reduced his minutes, not only did he play even worse, but he was routinely outplayed by his own partners.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I know it is whatever percent chance we get after our bottom 10 finish this year, but if we land Wright. We have a championship caliber roster in short order. I know that is a big if and we would have to be lucky as hell. But it is kind of exciting that if we get lucky we are probably just that from being a legitimately good team again. Now he is a special talent, the best since McDavid in my opinion, but yeah getting lucky in either of the next two years would allow Stevie to get aggressive and pull us out of the rebuild and back into post-season hockey.

You can see the depth in the system starting to arrive. We still need a couple more elite guys, but with that players start to really slot correctly. I am impressed with the way Yzerman is doing this. It is methodical and I think really well thought out. I like the guys he has picked, I like the upside and I like going for the defenders that have the longer arc and goalie first. Now we hopefully get elite guys up front in the next two drafts and get a little lucky with all of these prospects, we are going to need some of these guys to outkick their coverage or get lottery luck, but you can kind of see the vision. It still has a ways to go and we still need these guys to really hit on their development, but I am excited for the first time in a little bit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think his worst case scenario is kind of the way people have come to feel about Risto in Buffalo. We will have to see how it goes in Philly. Given just where Edvinsson is athletically it is hard to see him not getting a bunch of games in the top 4 for a bunch of years. Bust altogether seems a bit extreme. Guys like him play in the league, he is an athletic unicorn, he is a guy that is going to have to prove he can't for a long time before NHL talent evaluators give up on him.

While this wasn't a crazy draft in terms of overall elite talent, there are still going to be some very good players out of it. You just don't have the known top end guy, it has been a while since we have seen it. Edvinsson does have that kind of ceiling, like some have said expecting that might be a bit extreme. One thing I will say that excites me, when he gets to the NHL he is going to have a couple of young leaders in Seider and probably Hronek to help him adjust. I think that is going to help a ton, guys that have just gone through getting better in this league. If Edvinsson and Seider become a pairing I am going to be so excited.

Thor - Mjolnir

Man...I really hope to whatever higher power there is that Edvinsson becomes NOTHING like Ristolainen. He is the last big, athletic defenseman I want him modeling his game after.

 

[jaster]

Raymond should be another runaway here. Perhaps Edvinsson passes him up in the future, totally conceivable, but for now our highest pick in recent years easily remains a top-2 prospect in the system.

I'd expect Edvinsson to fairly easily win #3.

After that it gets interesting. For me, it'll easily be Cossa at #4, but I know there's a large Berggren contingent around here. I like the kid, but his upside just isn't as high as the other four. I loved Gus Nyquist, but Berggren if he fully reaches his upside is Gus Nyquist.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Man...I really hope to whatever higher power there is that Edvinsson becomes NOTHING like Ristolainen. He is the last big, athletic defenseman I want him modeling his game after.

I didn't say I was hoping that is who he would become. I said that was kind of the worst case scenario. I also think whether you like him or not Risto isn't an outright bust. He is going to play a lot of games in this league. It was more of a I don't understand where some of this fan-base sees Edvinsson's floor. Like it is pretty reasonable to call it a NHL player, just look at the size of him and how he skates. He is already pretty passable defensively, he needs to get more consistent offensively. I think people want to tell me about how Wallinder might miss the league and I was admittedly a big fan of him last year but yeah he does some stuff that makes you worry. I just don't see a reality where Edvinsson isn't in the league for a pretty long time. Maybe Larsson as a like a disappointment will make people happier, I don't know seems like 2nd pairing is as low to me as he is going to be. He just does too many things well in particular skating for an elite sized d-man for me to think he doesn't get minutes, those guys always do in the NHL.

 

[jaster]

Perhaps. I think Edvinsson was overrated in a weak draft class. The issues in his game are incredibly difficult to teach out of him and I think while he has a high ceiling, it’s incredibly unlikely he reaches it. I’ll probably still vote for him next because that raw upside does exist, but anyone who chooses to vote for Berggren, Cossa, or Johansson over him, I completely understand. I understand some might think it’s crazy to rank Johansson over Edvinsson, but I think it’s far more likely he develops into a middle pairing defenseman than Edvinsson. Frankly, I think there’s a distinct possibility that Edvinsson busts altogether. So. That’s why people are down on him.

I didn't like the Edvinsson pick on draft day. And while I haven't changed my opinion on the amount of risk attached to his ceiling (still more than average potential for him to not reach it), where I've come around a bit is on his floor. His floor is pretty high. Even if his offense and puck-handling never come around, his skating and defensive ability should allow him to be a rock in the top-4. I think busting altogether is extremely unlikely.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Lucas Raymond, Add Tuomisto

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I didn't like the Edvinsson pick on draft day. And while I haven't changed my opinion on the amount of risk attached to his ceiling (still more than average potential for him to not reach it), where I've come around a bit is on his floor. His floor is pretty high. Even if his offense and puck-handling never come around, his skating and defensive ability should allow him to be a rock in the top-4. I think busting altogether is extremely unlikely.

Like that is the kind of bust Brad Stuart was...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I didn't say I was hoping that is who he would become. I said that was kind of the worst case scenario. I also think whether you like him or not Risto isn't an outright bust. He is going to play a lot of games in this league. It was more of a I don't understand where some of this fan-base sees Edvinsson's floor. Like it is pretty reasonable to call it a NHL player, just look at the size of him and how he skates. He is already pretty passable defensively, he needs to get more consistent offensively. I think people want to tell me about how Wallinder might miss the league and I was admittedly a big fan of him last year but yeah he does some stuff that makes you worry. I just don't see a reality where Edvinsson isn't in the league for a pretty long time. Maybe Larsson as a like a disappointment will make people happier, I don't know seems like 2nd pairing is as low to me as he is going to be. He just does too many things well in particular skating for an elite sized d-man for me to think he doesn't get minutes, those guys always do in the NHL.

I know the Larsson comparison is thrown out there in part because it was a more recent draft and because they're both big Swedish defensemen drafted in the top 10, but I don't know if that's a great comparable.

Maybe...Jay Bouwmeester fits better? Big, great skater, we wonder if the offense will translate or if he'll just be a defensive D but has solid defensive instincts that are easy to project. If Edvinsson can become Florida Bouwmeester and get 40 points a season we got ourselves an 8+ million dollar defenseman. If he becomes St. Louis Bouwmeester we got ourselves a really solid #2 or #3 guy.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I know the Larsson comparison is thrown out there in part because it was a more recent draft and because they're both big Swedish defensemen drafted in the top 10, but I don't know if that's a great comparable.

Maybe...Jay Bouwmeester fits better? Big, great skater, we wonder if the offense will translate or if he'll just be a defensive D but has solid defensive instincts that are easy to project. If Edvinsson can become Florida Bouwmeester and get 40 points a season we got ourselves an 8+ million dollar defenseman. If he becomes St. Louis Bouwmeester we got ourselves a really solid #2 or #3 guy.

I think that is a pretty good one and with Seider already arriving this year, I am not sure we need him to be more than that. It slots in correctly to our build. I think that is exactly why Yzerman and Draper went this way. I am fascinated to see how Edvinsson grows this year, I think that part is key to this, he has a lot of room to grow, but he is one of those guys you want progressing at a pretty good clip. I wasn't always enamored with Raymond's distribution at Frolunda though, so I am curious to see that next year too. Still I think he is an exciting core piece, you can see where he probably makes us better, he is a piece that helps more than likely.