News Article: Detroit Red Wings’ Salary Cap Mess & How Larkin Fits

[ricky0034]

it's a shame we never hear about offer sheets that aren't signed

I wonder if they are ever used privately by players that wanna get paid but don't want to rock the boat as much as much as signing it would as a negotiating tactic(ie: "I have an offer sheet for this much up your offer to me or i'll sign it")

 

[SCD]

They may be waiting to hear from Zetterberg regarding his intentions this year. If he goes on LTIR, flexibility increases with Larkin's salary.

If Zetterberg plays, then in reality Larkin has to decide who he wants to play with. The higher the AAV, the higher salary players like Zadina get sent down.
Or the team is forced to move AA.

 

[Claypool]

it's a shame we never hear about offer sheets that aren't signed

I wonder if they are ever used privately by players that wanna get paid but don't want to rock the boat as much as much as signing it would as a negotiating tactic(ie: "I have an offer sheet for this much up your offer to me or i'll sign it")

Negotiating tactics are usually made public by the agent to put pressure on the team publicly, see: Athanasiou going to the KHL or whatever. He never signed any contracts but he discussed going over there as an option.

I think in this specific case, though, the agent would risk the general manager calling the bluff and would come out looking stupid. Let's say Larkin's agent was threatening a 6 year, $7.5 million per deal offer sheet from Carolina. Why wouldn't he just sign the contract and force Holland to match? What would be the point of even making the threat? Holland could easily just call Don Waddell and ask why he's offer sheeting Larkin and he would say that's not true, the agent is lying.

 

[ricky0034]

Negotiating tactics are usually made public by the agent to put pressure on the team publicly, see: Athanasiou going to the KHL or whatever. He never signed any contracts but he discussed going over there as an option.

I think in this specific case, though, the agent would risk the general manager calling the bluff and would come out looking stupid. Let's say Larkin's agent was threatening a 6 year, $7.5 million per deal offer sheet from Carolina. Why wouldn't he just sign the contract and force Holland to match? What would be the point of even making the threat? Holland could easily just call Don Waddell and ask why he's offer sheeting Larkin and he would say that's not true, the agent is lying.

well yeah it would obviously have to be real

as to why it would make a lot less waves using the threat of it to negotiate behind closed doors rather than dragging it into the public,gives the team a chance to move salary without literally everyone knowing that they need to,a chance to change up the money or terms on it while using the offer sheet as a base and so on

 

[jkutswings]

They may be waiting to hear from Zetterberg regarding his intentions this year. If he goes on LTIR, flexibility increases with Larkin's salary.

If Zetterberg plays, then in reality Larkin has to decide who he wants to play with. The higher the AAV, the higher salary players like Zadina get sent down.
Or the team is forced to move AA.

It's not Larkin's job to take a discount on his first major deal to do management a solid. Get the kid a fair contract, then work out the consequences.

 

[Konnan511]

And completely illogical that anybody would offer $10M.

If he hits his full potential, 10mil a season in 5 seasons from now will be the norm (assuming the cap keeps rising).

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Man as far as a salary cap "mess", this one is pretty tame.

5.29-6.29 (aka where Larkin's contract will probably land). What you do is you send down Filip Zadina and Martin Frk and place Franzen on LTIR. And magically, you're there. You wait like a month and you can bring up Zadina then if you're dead set on having him in Detroit.

Basically, it's send down one or two guys who will likely be sent down at some point anyway and put a guy on LTIR who was going to go there anyway. Oh horrors of horrors.

I'm a bit sick of the dog and pony show on the LTIRetirements as well. They should be handled by a third party (NHL chosen or external from the league entirely) battery of doctors that are given the task of doing the physical. If they recommend never playing again a la Franzen, the guy should still get his money but the cap hit should just go away. They never should have imposed the recapture on deals that were ruled as valid before the lockout anyway.

 

[njx9]

I'm a bit sick of the dog and pony show on the LTIRetirements as well. They should be handled by a third party (NHL chosen or external from the league entirely) battery of doctors that are given the task of doing the physical. If they recommend never playing again a la Franzen, the guy should still get his money but the cap hit should just go away. They never should have imposed the recapture on deals that were ruled as valid before the lockout anyway.

For a while, I really hoped they'd be dealt with in the next labor deal, but then I figure the NHL will just find some way to make the entire process punitive for a bunch of teams, instead of coming up with something like you proposed.

 

[jkutswings]

If he hits his full potential, 10mil a season in 5 seasons from now will be the norm (assuming the cap keeps rising).

And the owners will have another lockout, and both sides will posture, and a new agreement will be signed. And the owners will go right back to overpaying players, and the cycle will repeat in 5-10 years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

For a while, I really hoped they'd be dealt with in the next labor deal, but then I figure the NHL will just find some way to make the entire process punitive for a bunch of teams, instead of coming up with something like you proposed.

I agree. The two things that bother me with it are

1) As a Detroit fan, Detroit has spent a massive amount of time and thought on these deals and the contracts to Franzen and Zetterberg that were ruled as 100% valid have been a millstone around their neck during planning. And they prepared their team with these contracts and the cap ramifications in mind.

2) Other teams essentially seemed to spit in the face of the thing (particularly Hossa and Kovalchuk's deals) or operate as if it didn't exist (Nashville trading Weber) because they know that the NHL wasn't going to say anything.

New Jersey flouted the rule in the league's face with a joke of a contract and eventually got out of it with only facing a 250k cap hit on their books for like 8 years.

Nashville is, in no way, shape, or form going to face a potential 24M bomb hitting their cap if Weber retires with a year to go. NHL wouldn't allow it. Hossa managed to last until the years his salary dipped to say "man, this skin allergy is really a pain to play with. I was willing to deal with it for 5M, but 1M, **** you. Basically so much has happened with this rule to sap away its credibility and you have the vast majority of NHL fans who don't even understand what it entails.

 

[SCD]

It's not Larkin's job to take a discount on his first major deal to do management a solid. Get the kid a fair contract, then work out the consequences.

You may not think it is fair, but that is reality. All contracts have consequences when living in the cap world.

 

[kliq]

It's not Larkin's job to take a discount on his first major deal to do management a solid. Get the kid a fair contract, then work out the consequences.

I dont think anyone is saying its his job, and for this season (even next season) it really doesnt matter with all the bad contracts. Where this becomes significant if he signs for 8 years is in 3-4 years from now when Nyquist, Franzen, Howard, Kronwall, Zetterberg, Helm, Vanek, Glendening, E, Daley, Jensen, and Green are all gone (or under new contacts), and its we are loading up to hopefully make a cup run. The lower cap-hit he signs for, the higher the probability of us landing better players.

He owes us nothing, sure, but players aren't stupid and see what bad contracts can do to a contender (see Chicago).

 

[kliq]

You may not think it is fair, but that is reality. All contracts have consequences when living in the cap world.

Exactly, it is what it is.

 

[StargateSG1]

It's not Larkin's job to take a discount on his first major deal to do management a solid. Get the kid a fair contract, then work out the consequences.

LOL,
like it's Larkin's job to accommodate for Kenny's gross cap mismanagement.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There are plenty of options to make the cap work. I just would have preferred they didn't go this route to begin with. It's like the college football programs that over sign recruits, knowing they'll have to cut a handful to make roster requirements. Except that some of the extra players here didn't really need to be signed in the first place.

It’s very doubtful Holland is surprised or unwilling to make any moves to fit Larkin’s contract. Like why for example leave exactly 7-8 million in cap space as a ”this is how much we’re willing to pay you” statement? Why avoid signing Vanek if then Z retires and millions are cleared up?
Like you say there are plenty of ways to make it work.

 

[jkutswings]

Like why for example leave exactly 7-8 million in cap space as a ”this is how much we’re willing to pay you” statement? Why avoid signing Vanek if then Z retires and millions are cleared up?
Like you say there are plenty of ways to make it work.

It's not to earmark that space specifically for Larkin. It's that not blowing the entire cap beforehand would allow for other ADDITIONAL options (trades that aren't exact dollar for dollar, extra picks for a cap dump, etc.), and still permit getting Larkin's deal done.

I'd rather have additional financial wiggle room to allow for greater creativity in jump-starting the rebuild, than guarantee the roster has depth to spare within 48 hours of the start of free agency.

 

[Oddbob]

And the owners will have another lockout, and both sides will posture, and a new agreement will be signed. And the owners will go right back to overpaying players, and the cycle will repeat in 5-10 years.

Sadly you are right, another lockout awaits in a couple of years. If they actually stop games again for their bologna, than they honestly deserve to have the League go in the toilet. 3 Strikes in 20ish years is ridiculous.

 

[Mijatovic]

Having a stupidly high salary structure probably allows Kenny to negotiate by saying look I would pay you but we cant actually do it. Then hopefully at some point he dumps these bad-ish contractrs and then goes and lands a superstar to fill out his underpaid guys?

Evil genius!

 

[Run the Jewels]

It still blows my mind that one of the five worst franchises in the league is anywhere near the cap ceiling. And most of the players who are responsible for that are either no longer playing or have NMC that make it difficult to trade them.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'd rather have additional financial wiggle room to allow for greater creativity in jump-starting the rebuild, than guarantee the roster has depth to spare within 48 hours of the start of free agency.

We have more than enough financial wiggle room. Larkin will get signed and we will be cap compliant on day 1.
We also stockpile picks at a greater rate than any team in the league so I don’t think we’re missing much by not taking on cap dumps.

 

[FMichael]

I'm not concerned about the cap hit for Larkin.

He, and his agent might prefer a 5, or 6 year deal (which ever takes him to UFA), but will get le$$ (probably getting offers from Holland in the $5 to $5.5 per season range) whereas Holland would offer $6, and possibly more for the max 8 years.

 

[FireBird71]

https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-no-trade-clauses/


Found this today pertaining to our NTC

 

[Flowah]

I wouldn't trade Larkin for that.

Is the hype around Jack Hughes justified?

Is our trade partner someone who will have at least, but maybe 2 high 1st rounders? Combined with our own that could be 2-3 lottery chances for a guy who is supposed to be elite level.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-no-trade-clauses/


Found this today pertaining to our NTC

That article should be stickied.

 

[odin1981]

Hahaha that's like 40% of our team now that has one. Not that I was keeping track of this, but after reading the article thats just depressing.