Rumor: Detroit Interested in Petry

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Now we're talking about Petry coming in and taking over the #1 spot from Seider?

This thread was already off the rails, now it's jumping onto a completely different track, on a head-on collision with "Babcock should be the next head coach."

 

[jaster]

No, we aren't.

Thank you for actually taking the time to comprehend the point I was attempting to make! That's more than one can usually expect on a message board, it appears.

Guys, it's nice that you said one thing in one place, and then quoted it to rebuff my comment, but the problem is that there was a later, contradictory comment that is the one I was referring to. You know, the most recent comment before my post.....

Well, we don't know how the new coach will see things. Most here assume a continued linear development for Seider, but that is not a given. Even if we assume that Seider and Petry play on different pairs, we don't know how they would be deployed. Petry could end up getting a lot of the tougher, defensive minutes and bounce back closer to a TOI total closer to where he had been in previous seasons, before the disaster that was the 2021-2022 Montreal Canadiens.

The bold effectively makes Petry the #1. Based on the words typed in this post, he would be getting the same or more minutes than Seider, and the tougher matchups.

So, let's not go lecturing about reading comprehension until you all have nailed down your own writing comprehension.

A message board indeed.

Jeff Petry is not coming to Detroit and threatening Moritz Seider's role. It's foolish to expect otherwise. It's both an underrating of Seider and an overrating of Petry. Seider is going to Seider, whether you fully appreciate him yet or not, and Jeff Petry, should he come to Detroit (I highly doubt it), would fill a role completely outside of what Seider does. Moe Seider does not need help. The Red Wings do.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Guys, it's nice that you said one thing in one place, and then quoted it to rebuff my comment, but the problem is that there was a later, contradictory comment that is the one I was referring to. You know, the most recent comment before my post.....



The bold effectively makes Petry the #1. Based on the words typed in this post, he would be getting the same or more minutes than Seider, and the tougher matchups.

So, let's not go lecturing about reading comprehension until you all have nailed down your own writing comprehension.

A message board indeed.

Jeff Petry is not coming to Detroit and threatening Moritz Seider's role. It's foolish to expect otherwise. It's both an underrating of Seider and an overrating of Petry. Seider is going to Seider, whether you fully appreciate him yet or not, and Jeff Petry, should he come to Detroit (I highly doubt it), would fill a role completely outside of what Seider does. Moe Seider does not need help. The Red Wings do.

Tougher defensive minutes is still in line with CountMC's original statement.

EDIT: Rather than respond in kind, let me try to explain myself better. It seems CountMC's point is pretty clearly not that he thinks Petry will replace Seider as #1. You may be arguing that "if it walks like a duck..." which is an angle I can understand.

But instead of raising that issue and having a discussion about it, you popped in to misrepresent the spirit of Count's post and take a dump on the whole thread.

How is that helpful or productive?

 

[Gniwder]

Jeff Petry is not coming to Detroit and threatening Moritz Seider's role. It's foolish to expect otherwise. It's both an underrating of Seider and an overrating of Petry. Seider is going to Seider, whether you fully appreciate him yet or not, and Jeff Petry, should he come to Detroit (I highly doubt it), would fill a role completely outside of what Seider does. Moe Seider does not need help. The Red Wings do.

Seider is easily a top 15 defenseman in this league already, why are we even talking about Petry getting more minutes or tougher assignments?

.... and I got flamed for saying he's not a Norris Trophy contender, lol.

And as long as we're having dumb arguments, I want to remind everyone that Makar is generational, lol.

 

[CountMC]

Guys, it's nice that you said one thing in one place, and then quoted it to rebuff my comment, but the problem is that there was a later, contradictory comment that is the one I was referring to. You know, the most recent comment before my post.....



The bold effectively makes Petry the #1. Based on the words typed in this post, he would be getting the same or more minutes than Seider, and the tougher matchups.

So, let's not go lecturing about reading comprehension until you all have nailed down your own writing comprehension.

A message board indeed.

Jeff Petry is not coming to Detroit and threatening Moritz Seider's role. It's foolish to expect otherwise. It's both an underrating of Seider and an overrating of Petry. Seider is going to Seider, whether you fully appreciate him yet or not, and Jeff Petry, should he come to Detroit (I highly doubt it), would fill a role completely outside of what Seider does. Moe Seider does not need help. The Red Wings do.

Petry had been around 23/game for the previous 4 seasons. Seider was 23/game this past season. The majority of the defense next year will be inexperienced and/or unrelaible, so I think that Petry could come in and play around 23 and Seider could even play a little more than he did this past season.

I want Seider to be the #1 and Petry to be the #2 in this case. Seider is tilted more to offensive and PP minutes and Petry is used more defensively. I don't see any contradiction made at any point in this thread.

And for the record, I'm a huge Seider fan and have made no statement at any point that I don't appreciate his game and his contributions. There's many ways to look at team building.

 

[jaster]

Tougher defensive minutes is still in line with CountMC's original statement.

EDIT: Rather than respond in kind, let me try to explain myself better. It seems CountMC's point is pretty clearly not that he thinks Petry will replace Seider as #1. You may be arguing that "if it walks like a duck..." which is an angle I can understand.

But instead of raising that issue and having a discussion about it, you popped in to misrepresent the spirit of Count's post and take a dump on the whole thread.

How is that helpful or productive?

To me, saying, "He wouldn't take over the #1 spot," and "He would have the most minutes on the team (or at least tied with Seider) and have the toughest matchups" are directly contradictory. So while we can discuss the "spirit" of his posts, the spirit to me is muddled. And what I'm responding to is the post that included the latter sentiment. It's the idea that Petry is going to come in and eat into some of Seider's role and be a #1, a quasi-#1, a #1B, whatever, because..... Petry is that good?

Now, I can see someone making the argument that Seider was pressed into more action than he should have been last season because of how bad our D is, but I disagree with that. I think Seider was given exactly what he could handle, is a special talent, and is not going to be relinquishing any of his role, to Jeff Petry nor anyone else. He's our clear-cut #1, in nearly every facet of the game. It's going to take someone much better than Petry to diminish Seider's role, even slightly.

As for the thread, well, leave it to this board to take a player who's game I otherwise like and wouldn't mind seeing in Detroit, in a vacuum, and making me annoyed by him lol. Guess that's not helpful, but how many posts around here are actually helpful to anyone? Ridiculous content gets posted here in a "nice" way all the time.

I'll chalk this one up to people being bored in the off-season, and drilling down so far on Jeff freaking Petry that they lose sight of the forest from the trees.

 

[CountMC]

Seider is easily a top 15 defenseman in this league already, why are we even talking about Petry getting more minutes or tougher assignments?

.... and I got flamed for saying he's not a Norris Trophy contender, lol.

And as long as we're having dumb arguments, I want to remind everyone that Makar is generational, lol.

If you're referring to me, I never once said that Petry should get more minutes than Seider nor did I say he should get tougher minutes than Seider.

 

[Gniwder]

Petry had been around 23/game for the previous 4 seasons. Seider was 23/game this past season. The majority of the defense next year will be inexperienced and/or unrelaible, so I think that Petry could come in and play around 23 and Seider could even play a little more than he did this past season.

I want Seider to be the #1 and Petry to be the #2 in this case. Seider is tilted more to offensive and PP minutes and Petry is used more defensively. I don't see any contradiction made at any point in this thread.

And for the record, I'm a huge Seider fan and have made no statement at any point that I don't appreciate his game and his contributions. There's many ways to look at team building.

Seider is better defensively than he is offensively, though he is better offensively than most thought he would be. You have a really strange take.

Seider is top 15 in the league, Petry doesn't come anywhere close. Most people are taking a break from this board because there isn't any news lately, but when they read this thread you are going to get laughed at.

 

[jaster]

Petry had been around 23/game for the previous 4 seasons. Seider was 23/game this past season. The majority of the defense next year will be inexperienced and/or unrelaible, so I think that Petry could come in and play around 23 and Seider could even play a little more than he did this past season.

I want Seider to be the #1 and Petry to be the #2 in this case. Seider is tilted more to offensive and PP minutes and Petry is used more defensively. I don't see any contradiction made at any point in this thread.

And for the record, I'm a huge Seider fan and have made no statement at any point that I don't appreciate his game and his contributions. There's many ways to look at team building.

I can see where you're coming from with this post. Making them #1 and #2 is problematic though, given that both play the right side. They won't play together, and Petry won't be taking responsibilities from Seider, so achieving these roles would be difficult.

And Seider is better than Petry defensively. And offensively. And physically. And higher IQ. Etc, etc, etc. Just feels like you're trying to shoehorn Petry into a role that just isn't realistic.

 

[Gniwder]

If you're referring to me, I never once said that Petry should get more minutes than Seider nor did I say he should get tougher minutes than Seider.

This is exactly what you said:

"I meant it in the sense that he would play #1 minutes the same way that someone like Ekholm plays #1 minutes in Nashville, without actually being the #1 D. "

If you're gong to backtrack, at least delete your old posts, lol. Not that it would help since you've already been quoted multiple times.

At some point you need to learn to quit digging the hole deeper. 29 posts.... not a good way to establish yourself here.

 

[jaster]

If you're referring to me, I never once said that Petry should get more minutes than Seider nor did I say he should get tougher minutes than Seider.

You said, "Petry could end up getting a lot of the tougher, defensive minutes." Sounds like tougher minutes. Parse this out for me

 

[CountMC]

You said, "Petry could end up getting a lot of the tougher, defensive minutes." Sounds like tougher minutes. Parse this out for me

Yeah, no one player can get all the tough defensive minutes. Seider will get some, Petry will get some and other D will get some as well. Nobody can play the full game, obviously. Because Seider would be the main offensive driver from the back and the #1 PP guy, I would give Petry most of the D zone starts, when trailing, for example. This frees Seider up for more offensive minutes when chasing a lead.

I don't say this to validate any of my arguments, but I actually do coach elite u15 hockey and this is a way that I think about the usage of my players.

 

[CountMC]

This is exactly what you said:

"I meant it in the sense that he would play #1 minutes the same way that someone like Ekholm plays #1 minutes in Nashville, without actually being the #1 D. "

If you're gong to backtrack, at least delete your old posts, lol. Not that it would help since you've already been quoted multiple times.

At some point you need to learn to quit digging the hole deeper. 29 posts.... not a good way to establish yourself here.

Where is the contradiction?

Josi is a LHD, the #1 and plays a ton of minutes in Nashville. Ekholm is the #2, also a LHD and played the 28th most minutes (on average) in the NHL this season among D from a different pairing.

I think a Seider and Petry led D could be split somewhat similarily.

Seider would be the #1 and play the most minutes from 1 pairing and Petry would be the #2 and play the 2nd most minutes from a different pairing. Petry would play a lot of minutes still because our D as a group would still be relatively weak. Those minutes would be enough to resemble #1 minutes across the league.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, no one player can get all the tough defensive minutes. Seider will get some, Petry will get some and other D will get some as well. Nobody can play the full game, obviously. Because Seider would be the main offensive driver from the back and the #1 PP guy, I would give Petry most of the D zone starts, when trailing, for example. This frees Seider up for more offensive minutes when chasing a lead.

I don't say this to validate any of my arguments, but I actually do coach elite u15 hockey and this is a way that I think about the usage of my players.

That's not giving tough assignments, that's about player usage. Obviously you give your best offensive players OZ starts when playing from behind. Likewise you give your best defensive players DZ starts when playing with a lead, and Seider is already better than Petry.

There was a thread here about Larkin and his OZ starts. For some reason there were posters that thought that was a bad thing, to me it's obvious that you give your best offensive players more OZ starts especially when playing from behind which is the norm for this team.

If you're really a coach, you need work on your communication. You'll lose players with mixed messaging and unclear communication even at age 15.

Where is the contradiction?

Josi is a LHD, the #1 and plays a ton of minutes in Nashville. Ekholm is the #2, also a LHD and played the 28th most minutes (on average) in the NHL this season among D from a different pairing.

I think a Seider and Petry led D could be split somewhat similarily.

Seider would be the #1 and play the most minutes from 1 pairing and Petry would be the #2 and play the 2nd most minutes from a different pairing. Petry would play a lot of minutes still because our D as a group would still be relatively weak. Those minutes would be enough to resemble #1 minutes across the league.

If this is the way you coach you are in trouble.

 

[CountMC]

That's not giving tough assignments, that's about player usage. Obviously you give your best offensive players OZ starts when playing from behind. Likewise you give your best defensive players DZ starts when playing with a lead, and Seider is already better than Petry.

There was a thread here about Larkin and his OZ starts. For some reason there were posters that thought that was a bad thing, to me it's obvious that you give your best offensive players more OZ starts especially when playing from behind which is the norm for this team.

If you're really a coach, you need work on your communication. You'll lose players with mixed messaging and unclear communication even at age 15.


If this is the way you coach you are in trouoble.

I don't think you're really making any effort to try and understand what I am saying.

I THINK SEIDER IS BETTER THAN PETRY. Does that help?

Usage and assignments go hand in hand. Just because Seider is the first choice for shut down minutes doesn't mean that Petry isn't also a good choice to get a lot of those minutes.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't think you're really making any effort to try and understand what I am saying.

I THINK SEIDER IS BETTER THAN PETRY. Does that help?

Usage and assignments go hand in hand. Just because Seider is the first choice for shut down minutes doesn't mean that Petry isn't also a good choice to get a lot of those minutes.

What you should have said is "Petry is a good defenseman that can optimize Seider's usage." (Maybe he is, but he's too old for this core which is a different issue.)

That isn't anything close to what you actually said if you go back and read your own posts. Like I said, you need to work on your communication skills. I hired ski instructors, and I see this issue all the time. Backtracking is the worst way to make a point, just say you misspoke and start over. Backtracking confuses people.

 

[CountMC]

What you should have said is "Petry is a good defenseman that can optimize Seider's usage." (Maybe he is, but he's too old for this core which is a different issue.)

That isn't anything close to what you actually said if you go back and read your own posts. Like I said, you need to work on your communication skills. I hired ski instructors, and I see this issue all the time. Backtracking is the worst way to make a point, just say you misspoke and start over. Backtracking confuses people.

I think the issue here is that you've been interpreting me saying #1 minutes for Petry to mean more minutes than Seider and hence Petry supplanting Seider as the #1.

I never once made that argument and I have no intention to. I brought forward the Ekholm example very early on in this thread as a player who plays #1 minutes but is not the #1 D on his team and that has guided my posts.

Could I have explained the whole thing better from the start? Almost certainly.

Should I have refrained from trying to explain myself to a poster named ButtKrak? Maybe

 

[Gniwder]

I think the issue here is that you've been interpreting me saying #1 minutes for Petry to mean more minutes than Seider and hence Petry supplanting Seider as the #1.

I never once made that argument and I have no intention to. I brought forward the Ekholm example very early on in this thread as a player who plays #1 minutes but is not the #1 D on his team and that has guided my posts.

Could I have explained the whole thing better from the start? Almost certainly.

Should I have refrained from trying to explain myself to a poster named ButtKrak? Maybe

Petry isn't going to get harder minutes or more minutes than Seider. Seider is the better defenseman on both ends of the ice.

Petry isn't Eklholm, and Josi gets more TOI than him anyways, so even that doesn't make any sense. Obviously Ekholm gets more DZ starts because Josi is the better offensive player.

Just be prepared to get laughed at when everyone else returns to the boards. Wow.

Edit: I gave you an out and you decided to double down. Hilarious.

 

[Henkka]

Definitely Seider would play the higher minutes, but Petry would be at 2nd pair + 1st PP QB.

Seider would pushed on more defensive situations to learn.

 

[MBH]

So you like more mistake-prone defence and losing games?

And you don't like Simon Edvinsson learn from a veteran? It has never been better for a prospect to learn from other learner.

Go on the UFA market and get a better version of Petry for a cheaper price.

Hronek for Petry is stupid.

Seider is easily top 15 D in the league???
Nobody put up a stop sign on that?

OK.

 

[CountMC]

Petry averaged 22 minutes TOI, Seider 23 minutes last season.

Seider is young and capable of playing the minutes, Petry is aging (34 years old). If he joins the team, he'd definitely be second pair, and he would be taking ice time away from whomever winds up being on the third pair, not Seider.

I don't see this trade happening, so it's a moot point as far as Petry. It would take someone like Letang (25 min TOI) to steal minutes from Seider.

Go back to this message and see what you quoted. I explained way back there what I meant by #1 D minutes without actually being the #1 D.

Petry isn't going to get harder minutes or more minutes than Seider. Seider is the better defenseman on both ends of the ice.

Petry isn't Eklholm, and Josi gets more TOI than him anyways, so even that doesn't make any sense. Obviously Ekholm gets more DZ starts because Josi is the better offensive player.

Just be prepared to get laughed at when everyone else returns to the boards. Wow.

Edit: I gave you an out and you decided to double down. Hilarious.

See the above.

I don't care about your out. And I don't care if strangers on a message board laugh at me without trying to understand what I've been maintaining all along in this thread.

I think you're underrating Petry after the miserable season that Montreal just had and simultaneously you somehow think I am trying to knock Seider down a peg.

I want Seider to have support. Petry could take on a lot of the tough minutes so that Seider doesn't have to take on all of the tough minutes. He would help stabilize the back end when Seider isn't on the ice.

 

[Gniwder]

Go on the UFA market and get a better version of Petry for a cheaper price.

Hronek for Petry is stupid.

Seider is easily top 15 D in the league???
Nobody put up a stop sign on that?

OK.

Name 15 defensemen you'd take over Seider?

Sure he finished 19th in scoring, but I'd take Seider over:
- Dahlin
- Burns
- Ghost
- Seth Jones
- Dobson

If you're talking about the difference in a couple of points, you take the better overall package.

 

[CountMC]

Go on the UFA market and get a better version of Petry for a cheaper price.

Hronek for Petry is stupid.

Seider is easily top 15 D in the league???
Nobody put up a stop sign on that?

OK.

Who's an example from the UFA market, with the contract you project them to get?

 

[CountMC]

Definitely Seider would play the higher minutes, but Petry would be at 2nd pair + 1st PP QB.

Seider would pushed on more defensive situations to learn.

Keep Seider on PP1. He's proven he is good at it and it's what's best for his development.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Definitely Seider would play the higher minutes, but Petry would be at 2nd pair + 1st PP QB.

Seider would pushed on more defensive situations to learn.

Detroit doesn’t need Petry to take on pp1 about duties from Seider. Seider led this team in pp points and was in on about 2/3 of our pp goals. What it needs is a better coach and wingers or a left point partner who can help score some goals.