Rumor: Detroit Interested in Petry

Gniwder

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Go back to this message and see what you quoted. I explained way back there what I meant by #1 D minutes without actually being the #1 D.



See the above.

I don't care about your out. And I don't care if strangers on a message board laugh at me without trying to understand what I've been maintaining all along in this thread.

I think you're underrating Petry after the miserable season that Montreal just had and simultaneously you somehow think I am trying to knock Seider down a peg.

I want Seider to have support. Petry could take on a lot of the tough minutes so that Seider doesn't have to take on all of the tough minutes. He would help stabilize the back end when Seider isn't on the ice.
In other words you have no clue what a #1D is.

#1D is overall package, not the guy with the most defensive zone starts. Whether Seider gets more oZ or dZ starts depends on whatever defenseman Stevie manages to acquire. If Stevie gets Letang (doubtful, but we've seen stranger things happen) then Seider will be the one getting defensive zone starts.

Keep in mind Seider had 50/50 oZ/dZ starts this past season because of Leddy (54/46).

Detroit doesn’t need Petry to take on pp1 about duties from Seider. Seider led this team in pp points and was in on about 2/3 of our pp goals. What it needs is a better coach and wingers or a left point partner who can help score some goals.
I don't think Henkka bothered to look at Petry's PP stats
 

CountMC

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In other words you have no clue what a #1D is.

#1D is overall package, not the guy with the most defensive zone starts. Whether Seider gets more oZ or dZ starts depends on whatever defenseman Stevie manages to acquire. If Stevie gets Letang (doubtful, but we've seen stranger things happen) then Seider will be the one getting defensive zone starts.

Keep in mind Seider had 50/50 oZ/dZ starts this past season because of Leddy (54/46).


I don't think Henkka bothered to look at Petry's PP stats

I know what a true #1 D is and I never said that it's the guy who gets the most DZ starts.

There just aren't 32 D across the league who can do everything there is to do as a D at the highest level. So you get duties split up in a lot of cases. Seider looks like he is a #1. Ekholm, not a #1, but gets the average minutes of a top 32 D in the league. This is what I've been saying the whole time, lol.

Oh well. Chalk it up as a misunderstanding.
 

jaster

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Yeah, no one player can get all the tough defensive minutes. Seider will get some, Petry will get some and other D will get some as well. Nobody can play the full game, obviously. Because Seider would be the main offensive driver from the back and the #1 PP guy, I would give Petry most of the D zone starts, when trailing, for example. This frees Seider up for more offensive minutes when chasing a lead.

I don't say this to validate any of my arguments, but I actually do coach elite u15 hockey and this is a way that I think about the usage of my players.
At the NHL level, most coaches still play matchups though. You pit your defenseman best suited for the assignment against the other team's top line, especially at home. And in Detroit, even with Petry, that is going to be Seider. He's going to get the other team's top line. It's of course great to have backup for that role, especially on the road, and I guess Petry could be the first guy to jump on the ice when it can't be Seider. But that's all he would be in general, the first alternate for the toughest defensive assignments.

If the Wings are losing? Sure, I can see skewing Seider towards O-zone starts and Petry towards D-zone starts, in order to make something happen offensively, but we're getting awfully particular here. In general, Petry shouldn't be eating into Seider's defensive assignments. Seider is easily the better defender.

It's entirely possible to have your #1 and #2 dmen both be RHD, or LHD, it does happen. But given all the context around the possibility of a Petry acquisition, and what it would mean for Detroit's D corps, this is pretty square peg in a round hole. And this all feels weird, because we are comparing apples to oranges. Petry is not, and has never been, on the level of Moe Seider. They are in different tiers, different classes. Petry may easily be the 2nd best defenseman on Detroit, but he's still not close to Seider, even defensively.
 

WingsToPick4th

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I feel like MTL is going to push to sign Letang and wants to clear the cap from Petry. How about the wings just sign letang instead or neither of these old dudes..
 
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MBH

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Who's an example from the UFA market, with the contract you project them to get?

Of Petry's caliber?
Meh.
34 year old defenseman who's lost his defensive compass?
You want a defensive guy?
Go with Braun or Stralman or Psyk or Gudbranson

You want an offensive guy? Letang, DeAngelo, Gustafsson, Schultz.

Given that we already have Seider and Hronek as capable PP RDs, why are we even looking at $6M defenseman for the right side?

You want a partner for Edvinsson? Go get brain or Stralman or Gundbranson. Maybe Rutta. Don't pay big dollars.

And definitely don't trade away assets to get him.

I can't think of anything more ridiculous than paying assets to take on a $6.25M, in-decline RD when we've already got two RD who are better.

The kind of D we need on the right side shouldn't cost us any more than $1.5-2M, max.

The LD is where we need help.
 

MBH

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Name 15 defensemen you'd take over Seider?

Sure he finished 19th in scoring, but I'd take Seider over:
- Dahlin
- Burns
- Ghost
- Seth Jones
- Dobson

If you're talking about the difference in a couple of points, you take the better overall package.

19th in scoring.
Because he played a gazillion minutes - 10th in the NHL on the PP.
Seider ranked 81st in 5 on 5 scoring among defensemen with 600 minutes or more.

So I'm not going to compare Seider to the top 19 defensive scoring leaders and cherry pick which guys I think he's better than, defensively.

But here's a list of defenseman who I think are better than Seider.

I definitely don't rank Seider as top 15 in the NHL.
Not yet.
Not even close.
 
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Oddbob

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I understand the concern. I'm not in love with the cost but last season really was a tale of 2 seasons for Montreal. Like I said earlier in this thread, you're looking at a team that finishes around where Anaheim did if they didn't have Ducharme to start the year. Still not great, but definitely better than dead last.

Petry looked like Jeff Petry from 2 seasons ago after the coaching change. It's a definite gamble to bring him in and expect him to be productive for even 2 of those 3 seasons but I think it's worth the risk.

Also consider this - the asset returned for Hronek, if it's we get a late 1st and use it on a defenseman could maybe be ready to play in 3 years time. By that time graybeard Petry is either gone or playing 3rd pair for peanuts and we all win!

Worst case scenario Detroit LTIRetires Petry and they gun for one of the 2023 or 2024 UFA RD like Matt Dumba, Ryan Graves, Damon Severson, Mackenzie Weegar, Erik Cernak, Brett Pesce, or swing a trade.

Why can't Hronek improve with a new coach? Not saying he does, but many a player have seen a world of difference to their games just from coaching changes. Look at Sam Bennett, the Flames and it's fans couldn't wait to get rid of the guy and he was an instant hit in Florida.
 

Oddbob

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One thing that never gets pointed out with Petry is that he has only been a #1 D on bad teams. To me the only reason he had seen #1 minutes is because the teams he has played on have been bad. I don't think Petry has been bad, but to me he is a 3-4 guy at best and wouldn't have sniffed 1-2 on any actual good teams. Please don't bring up Mtl made the Cup in defence of him as #1 as they only made the playoffs because of the weird divisions and Mtl was very much still a bad team.
 

Oddbob

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19th in scoring.
Because he played a gazillion minutes - 10th in the NHL on the PP.
Seider ranked 81st in 5 on 5 scoring among defensemen with 600 minutes or more.

So I'm not going to compare Seider to the top 19 defensive scoring leaders and cherry pick which guys I think he's better than, defensively.

But here's a list of defenseman who I think are better than Seider.

I definitely don't rank Seider as top 15 in the NHL.
Not yet.
Not even close.

To be fair, he said name 15 you take over him. You didn't even mention one. I'm not sure where he ranks because it is just one season, but he is definitely in the convo of Top 15-20 already in my opinion, and not in the not even close area. People were already calling Makar Top 5 after his first 50 games. To me Seider's defence is already as impactful as Makar's offence his first season when you see all the little plays Seider makes in his own end that aren't stat measurable that keep things calm and in control in our zone.
 

Debrincat93

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hope not. his overall deterioration has bad news written all over it.
he could be the best thing since sliced bread on our blueline.. or easily be the worst thing imaginable.
rather pass and go a different route.
remove the michigan home connection and look at it from that POV, it makes no sense.
 

Henkka

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hope not. his overall deterioration has bad news written all over it.
he could be the best thing since sliced bread on our blueline.. or easily be the worst thing imaginable.
rather pass and go a different route.
remove the michigan home connection and look at it from that POV, it makes no sense.

Getting guys like Petry pretty much matches with the things Yzerman did on early Tampa days. He did get more veteran players first (Kubina, Brewer, Gagne, Roloson etc.), to bolster the roster, and surround the few kids. At the start it was Hedman and Stamkos only. Then he did sell other players one-by-one and opened spots for kids one-by-one. But the veterans were around them for 2-3 year periods.

That's why I'm believing on this rumor. It sounds like an Yzerman move. He doesn't want to go after UFAs like Klingberg, who'll probably all want a long-term deal. Yzerman has been doing those 2-3 maximums for all on our team. No long-term commitment with anybody.

It's reasonable, those kind of deals won't handcuff you long-term on the building process. You see how the kids are developing, vets help them and can build timelines, when they are ready and then get rid of the veteran, who is probably on the last year of his deal. Petry could now come in, and be gone at 2025 deadline, on his last year, who knows. That's how Yzerman has operated in the past. People just refuse to get this and accept it as normal Yzerman policy.

He can easily get players, if the right deal and idea is there, and get rid of them, if the right deal and idea is there as opposite.

Only Alex Edler is UFA guy who I think would sign short-term like 2 years from free agency. So you get him to play with Seider and trade for Petry to play with Edvinsson. 3rd pair is Walman/Oesterle-Lindström. Or maybe even Staal exists.

Then he will start experimenting the Hronek trade, to fix the center hole.
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

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Why can't Hronek improve with a new coach? Not saying he does, but many a player have seen a world of difference to their games just from coaching changes. Look at Sam Bennett, the Flames and it's fans couldn't wait to get rid of the guy and he was an instant hit in Florida.

Sam Bennett got better from changing roles from a 3rd/4th line grinder to being used on the 2nd line on a more offensively inclined team. I don’t think that’s the example you want to use.

19th in scoring.
Because he played a gazillion minutes - 10th in the NHL on the PP.
Seider ranked 81st in 5 on 5 scoring among defensemen with 600 minutes or more.

So I'm not going to compare Seider to the top 19 defensive scoring leaders and cherry pick which guys I think he's better than, defensively.

But here's a list of defenseman who I think are better than Seider.

I definitely don't rank Seider as top 15 in the NHL.
Not yet.
Not even close.

Please list them.
 

ricky0034

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The argument that he's only good because he played a lot of minutes makes my head hurt.
and "top 10 in the NHL in powerplay minutes" as if he wasn't also top 10 in powerplay points even with a shitty team around him

you know who gets lots of powerplay minutes? guys who are good on the powerplay

such as.....literally every other player near or above him in powerplay points

a couple like Makar and Carlson even got a full minute a game more than Seider did
 

Czechboy

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I'm surprised posters feel that Stevie Y would 'win' a trade by trading a 24 year old Dman that makes 4.4 million for 2 more seasons for a 34 year old Dman that makes 6.2 for 3 more seasons.

This is the Keith trade to me by the Oil. They shouldn't be giving away assets to get Petry (like the Oil did) they should be taking assets because he frees up cap space for them. Petry is an excellent player but age and cap are not in his favor at all. If the trade happened it should be a cap dump going the other way (any Holland contracts left?) or retained salary and a pick going to Detroit. Hawks got Seth Jones after dumping Keith.

Yzerman got players like Vrana and Ned for amazing deals. I cannot see him doing this unless it is a steal.
 

Mister Ed

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There are better options for cheaper. Unless Yzerman can get a huge asset back (Montreal's first overall + Petry for Detroit's 8th overall or something crazy like that), it's not worth it.
 
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MBH

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and "top 10 in the NHL in powerplay minutes" as if he wasn't also top 10 in powerplay points even with a shitty team around him

you know who gets lots of powerplay minutes? guys who are good on the powerplay

such as.....literally every other player near or above him in powerplay points

a couple like Makar and Carlson even got a full minute a game more than Seider did
Also - defensemen on shitty teams.
 

Gniwder

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Also - defensemen on shitty teams.
Speaking of which, keep in mind his partner was DDK, the shitty version of Leddy, and a bunch of AHL scrubs.

Not a surprise he scored more without a partner (PP and OT) than he did 5 on 5 where he had to cover for his garbage partner.

I've said it before (and got flamed for the exact opposite reason, lol, by Seider homers), but on a better team he'd have more ES points (because the offense would be better) but less PP points (because he'd have less PP time). In teh end, I think the point total would even out.

I also noticed you cherry picked 5 on 5 instead of ES, because OT victories apparently don't matter. Those are all GWA or GWG if you think about it.
 

Debrincat93

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Getting guys like Petry pretty much matches with the things Yzerman did on early Tampa days. He did get more veteran players first (Kubina, Brewer, Gagne, Roloson etc.), to bolster the roster, and surround the few kids. At the start it was Hedman and Stamkos only. Then he did sell other players one-by-one and opened spots for kids one-by-one. But the veterans were around them for 2-3 year periods.

That's why I'm believing on this rumor. It sounds like an Yzerman move. He doesn't want to go after UFAs like Klingberg, who'll probably all want a long-term deal. Yzerman has been doing those 2-3 maximums for all on our team. No long-term commitment with anybody.

It's reasonable, those kind of deals won't handcuff you long-term on the building process. You see how the kids are developing, vets help them and can build timelines, when they are ready and then get rid of the veteran, who is probably on the last year of his deal. Petry could now come in, and be gone at 2025 deadline, on his last year, who knows. That's how Yzerman has operated in the past. People just refuse to get this and accept it as normal Yzerman policy.

He can easily get players, if the right deal and idea is there, and get rid of them, if the right deal and idea is there as opposite.

Only Alex Edler is UFA guy who I think would sign short-term like 2 years from free agency. So you get him to play with Seider and trade for Petry to play with Edvinsson. 3rd pair is Walman/Oesterle-Lindström. Or maybe even Staal exists.

Then he will start experimenting the Hronek trade, to fix the center hole.
yea not at that contract. it would have to be one hell of an asset attached to him in order to make it plausable to take on Petry.
You can find someone similar to him either cheaper or as a UFA coming up. Maybe not this summer but soon, im sure.
 
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