Derek Stepan Sucks (UPDATE: Does Not Suck - 03/07/18)

[rt]

I'm for Neal. David Perron, too.

You good with 6yrs, 6.5mil avg for Neal?

James Neal
695gp 492pts .71ppg

His 2005 Draft Comps:

TJ Oshie
659gp 458pts .70ppg
8yrs 46mil 5.75avg

Bobby Ryan
722gp 500pts .69ppg
7yrs 50.75m 7.25avg

 

[Heldig]

I think the idea would be to hope that Keller can add to his totals, that Perlini and Fischer can add some much needed consistency and that Svechnikov can have one of those huge rookie breakout seasons like Keller just had.

I can't think of any bonafide scorers I'd want to trade for at this point. Who'd you have in mind?

Really not sure. My hunch is Chayka likes Pacioretty but dont see him giving up the assets that it would (likely) require unless prices have dropped similar to E Kane's did at the deadline.

JVR makes some sense but his recent scoring exploits have probably priced him out of a reasonable contract.

There are a few UFA wingers in Europe that could of interest (though they are not proven in the NHL).

There will be a few teams that look to shake up their rosters. A player from one of those teams might make sense. What are the Coyotes trade chips?

 

[rt]

POJ, Merkley, '18MIN 2nd, '19ARI3rd for Pacioretty and then re-sign Paciorretty to a 7yrs, 48mil, 6.85mil extension that kicks in when he's 31 and ends when he's 38.

Anyone happy with that outcome?

EDIT:
1. 32yo - 8mil
2. 33yo - 8mil
3. 34yo - 7mil
4. 35yo - 7mil
5. 36yo - 7mil
6. 37yo - 6mil
7. 38yo - 5mil
Remember Keller's ELC expires after year two above. Chychrun's after year one above.

 

[moosemeister]

POJ, Merkley, '18MIN 2nd, '19ARI3rd for Pacioretty and then re-sign Paciorretty to a 7yrs, 48mil, 6.85mil extension that kicks in when he's 31 and ends when he's 38.

Anyone happy with that outcome?

No

 

[rt]

No

Right. I doubt we could get him much cheaper in trade. I also doubt his extension is any more friendly than that. We'd be paying market price for a newly acquired player who has us over a barrel because we just traded a boat load of assets for him and he doesn't know us from Adam.

 

[Heldig]

No

Not interested in trading POJ for a 30+ year old winger.

 

[moosemeister]

Take POJ out and my interest rises a little.

Still probably say no.

 

[rt]

Not interested in trading POJ for a 30+ year old winger.

Think you’re getting Patchrs without him?

 

[Mosby]

You good with 6yrs, 6.5mil avg for Neal?

Nope. Hate the term there. Look where the Sabres are at in a similar player and deal with Okposo.

But outside of UFA what are our options? Do we have the right trade chips necessary to upgrade on wings? Agree with your earlier point in that these UFA winger contracts have the potential to become ugly quickly, but I'd rather fix our wings for free (just UFA cash) and use our other assets to improve the more important areas (ideally center).

 

[Mosby]

What are the Coyotes trade chips?

A non-top 4 1st rounder, Strome, Domi, Merkley, maybe Perlini.

 

[Heldig]

Think you’re getting Patchrs without him?

I dont really know (of course). POJ is the Coyotes best D prospect. If that is the cost I would look elsewhere.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

We clearly need to do something. We need firepower in the forwards. If we take a D in this draft, I'd certainly package POJ to get Patches.

 

[SniperHF]

This is totally random, but while spelunking for something I found an old rumor via James Mirtle from summer 2016 that the Coyotes were in on Stepan. This follows with what Chayka said a year later when he actually traded for him that he had been pursuing Stepan for awhile. So add a + 1 to James Mirtle

 

[rt]

We clearly need to do something. We need firepower in the forwards. If we take a D in this draft, I'd certainly package POJ to get Patches.

I don’t want the contract he’s inevitably due even if we only have to give up Dysin Flippin Mayo. That’s the point. Max Pac’s next contract will be terrible. I don’t want to be the team that gives it to him.

 

[rt]

I dont really know (of course). POJ is the Coyotes best D prospect. If that is the cost I would look elsewhere.

I dont really know (of course). POJ is the Coyotes best D prospect. If that is the cost I would look elsewhere.

Forget the acquisition cost. Focus on the retention cost only. You okay with:

7yrs, 48mil, 6.85avg

1. 32yo - 8mil
2. 33yo - 8mil
3. 34yo - 7mil
4. 35yo - 7mil
5. 36yo - 7mil
6. 37yo - 6mil
7. 38yo - 5mil

???

 

[Heldig]

rt I think your retention cost is pretty spot on and for that reason I dont think the Coyotes should pursue it. It is a young mans game and someone is going to pay Pacioretty and JVR too much. Very few cases where those "last" contracts dont come back to haunt the team long before the term is done.

I still think Chayka wants to go out and get a scorer to support the young core. Question is the cost. And for whom?

Is there a more realistic target?

 

[_Del_]

It really depends what the Mad Butcher is willing to spend on payroll. If we're getting a substantial raise in budget, then I frankly don't care what we pay him because it isn't my money and we're not near the cap. Presumably, we're still penny counters, so I'd probably pass on a long-term contract that could go sideways. I think all those guys are going to get overpaid, but a lot of stupid GM'S have run out of cap. We'd be dumb not to kick the tires on these guys though. We have an obvious need for established scoring threats, and who knows what the market is until you start asking. We still need at least one of almost everything, so there isn't a FA I wouldn't give a call right now. You never know.

 

[Name Nameless]

My initial take on all trade-speculations is trading for good players might make sense at the dead-line, when you're headed for the play-offs. In other situations, the other team you are trading with trades because they think they can win the trade. When you trade with them you give away assets. Unless exploiting cap-hell issues, you shouldn't expect to win a trade like that. I know, that's defencive...

Stepan was actually a cap-hell situation. Still a 7OA is a lot. Given how the Rangers fell apart without him, and the Yotes came together when he grew into the team, this might have been the rare example of trading for a good, established player and making it work. And Hjalmarsson may be another.

Pacioretty? Isn't that the invisible man? Nobody should want a player like that. Another team entering cap-hell should be the Oilers.

 

[Jakey53]

A non-top 4 1st rounder, Strome, Domi, Merkley, maybe Perlini.

After last year there is no way I trade our 1st. this year. I don't understand why you want to start trading these young kids before we know what they might become. It took years to draft these kids and takes patience with a rebuild, and in my opinion if we start doing more of these Stepan type deals, it will come back to bite us in the a--.

 

[cobra427]

I would be against almost any deal to acquire a winger if we have to pay 5+ and term. Wingers are the least valuable, easiest to replace, and we have enough guys in the pipeline with the potential to pick up our scoring. We will always be a low budget team so the money matters. I would spend the money to get a stop gap C better then Richardson but maybe not what we would have to pay to get an RNH level player. Draft BPA, keep our 5 D, sign Raanta, and let the youth develop. We need cohesion and development more then major changes this off season.

Chayka has made some nice moves that have worked out but he might have been a little lucky too. I say that because of Chychrun/Keller/Raanta/Stepan, and at the same time deAngelo/Duclair looking poor after their trades, Verby getting old this year. Ryan McDonough got lucky his first year, then went on to make bad deals. Any GM won't always get the best end of a trade, things tend to even out. Chayka is young and inexperienced, he could fall into this trap.

 

[rt]

I would be against almost any deal to acquire a winger if we have to pay 5+ and term. Wingers are the least valuable, easiest to replace, and we have enough guys in the pipeline with the potential to pick up our scoring. We will always be a low budget team so the money matters. I would spend the money to get a stop gap C better then Richardson but maybe not what we would have to pay to get an RNH level player. Draft BPA, keep our 5 D, sign Raanta, and let the youth develop. We need cohesion and development more then major changes this off season.

Chayka has made some nice moves that have worked out but he might have been a little lucky too. I say that because of Chychrun/Keller/Raanta/Stepan, and at the same time deAngelo/Duclair looking poor after their trades, Verby getting old this year. Ryan McDonough got lucky his first year, then went on to make bad deals. Any GM won't always get the best end of a trade, things tend to even out. Chayka is young and inexperienced, he could fall into this trap.

Huh?

EDIT: googled. This a basketball person. Got it.

 

[rt]

rt I think your retention cost is pretty spot on and for that reason I dont think the Coyotes should pursue it. It is a young mans game and someone is going to pay Pacioretty and JVR too much. Very few cases where those "last" contracts dont come back to haunt the team long before the term is done.

I still think Chayka wants to go out and get a scorer to support the young core. Question is the cost. And for whom?

Is there a more realistic target?

I’d like to try to buy low on Conor Sheary and cross our fingers his big year wasn’t a fluke.

 

[cobra427]

Huh?

Young Suns GM a few years ago, still there.

 

[rt]

Young Suns GM a few years ago, still there.

I can’t name one single player on the Suns.

I know the DBacks still have Goldschmidt. If I tried hard enough I might remember the name of that ex Dodgers pitcher they have now. That’s it.

I recently read the Cardinals now have Sam bradford. I know Fitz was undecided recently. Not sure what happened there. And Honey Badger might still be around. I know zero other players.

 

[Jakey53]

Think you’re getting Patchrs without him?

DO NOT want Patches at that price, and I mean in players and future contract.

Nope. Hate the term there. Look where the Sabres are at in a similar player and deal with Okposo.

But outside of UFA what are our options? Do we have the right trade chips necessary to upgrade on wings? Agree with your earlier point in that these UFA winger contracts have the potential to become ugly quickly, but I'd rather fix our wings for free (just UFA cash) and use our other assets to improve the more important areas (ideally center).

I think some of us are losing site of what we are trying to do. We are still rebuilding but some of these trades talked about are more suited for contenders. We have to stay the course here for a least another year and let the Perlini's, Strome's and Merkley's of the world show us if they are NHL material. Like you said fix our wingers for free and that might happen in this years draft. If we do trade any kids for a C, I would want back a young one, like a Galchenyuk for example. Or maybe a Paul Stastny that still can still produce, won't cost any assets and can help mentor the kids. Let's see what Strome can do for the remainder of this year,