Player Discussion Derek Stepan (C) - Part 2

[Micklebot]

Thats absolutely not true. This is a single example, which I called at the moment the deal was made. Instead of admitting that putting me down when I suggested this could be the case was wrong you're now generalising a statement that isnt true about me.

I didnt call you out specifically in that post because you are reasonable and dont look to insult posters like the other members in the previous Stepan thread. Its a shame it has gone this way.

You also said Dadonov was not truthful when he said he didn't come here just because of the contract. It is what it is, player says one thing you insist another, I'm done with this because it doesnt matter what evidence is presented, your view of what is common sense is all that matters, nobody, including the player, is allowed to think differently.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Has it officially been confirmed the issue is him wanting to be with his family? The trade was stupid from day 1, but I think we need to know one way or the other what his issue is here.

Been reported by at least 3 sources that I know of.

 

[TheDebater]

I was shit on aggressively by many posters for suggesting he wouldn't want to move to a new country away from his family when he just had a child. No crow was eaten I can tell you that much. How when this trade was being made did Dorion and Co not think this could possibly be a factor. Mind blowing.

*Edit I just went through the first Stepan thread which is now closed. Which us unfortunate because there are some absolute dandies in there and we cannot quote them. However there are quite a few posters that said some very insulting things to many posters in here.

@DaveMatthew pages of text defending this deal. YIKES.

@ReginKarlssonLehner @FormentonTheFuture and @JD1 personal insults directed at me for suggesting Stepan wouldn't want to be here and it was a bad trade. Questioned my intelligence and integrity.

I was also one of those who were skeptical when you suggested he would hate coming here, and I still think he does not "hate" being here but the pandemic circumstances definitely seem to have played a factor in this overall situation.

My only issue at the time was that you had no "facts" to prove that he truly did not want to come here, and you might still be wrong on that, he may have just changed his mind after the fact.

 

[bert]

I was also one of those who were skeptical when you suggested he would hate coming here, and I still think he does not "hate" being here but the pandemic circumstances definitely seem to have played a factor in this overall situation.

My only issue at the time was that you had no "facts" to prove that he truly did not want to come here, and you might still be wrong on that, he may have just changed his mind after the fact.

Quote me with a real quote or screen shot, dont put quotations around something I didnt specifically say. I have asked this of you several times.

So common sense cannot be applied? Only facts that are by your definition which this time there is no actual proof, outside of what he said to the media? Lip service to try and appease an entire fan base, what did you expect him to say exactly I am dissapointed I was traded here?... Come on. (no i dont think thats what happens every time). If that's the standard around here and it can be justified that you are insulted if you believe otherwise then were just promoting a bully culture.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I was shit on aggressively by many posters for suggesting he wouldn't want to move to a new country away from his family when he just had a child. No crow was eaten I can tell you that much. How when this trade was being made did Dorion and Co not think this could possibly be a factor. Mind blowing.

*Edit I just went through the first Stepan thread which is now closed. Which us unfortunate because there are some absolute dandies in there and we cannot quote them. However there are quite a few posters that said some very insulting things to many posters in here.

@DaveMatthew pages of text defending this deal. YIKES.

@ReginKarlssonLehner @FormentonTheFuture and @JD1 personal insults directed at me for suggesting Stepan wouldn't want to be here and it was a bad trade. Questioned my intelligence and integrity.

Not sure why you’re quoting me. The first post you quoted was me making fun of Variable 26/the Sens for having an “army” of 3 people in management. The second post was simply a discussion point. If you think that’s an insult I don’t know what to say.

 

[JungleBeat]

I was shit on aggressively by many posters for suggesting he wouldn't want to move to a new country away from his family when he just had a child. No crow was eaten I can tell you that much. How when this trade was being made did Dorion and Co not think this could possibly be a factor. Mind blowing.

*Edit I just went through the first Stepan thread which is now closed. Which us unfortunate because there are some absolute dandies in there and we cannot quote them. However there are quite a few posters that said some very insulting things to many posters in here.

@DaveMatthew pages of text defending this deal. YIKES.

@ReginKarlssonLehner @FormentonTheFuture and @JD1 personal insults directed at me for suggesting Stepan wouldn't want to be here and it was a bad trade. Questioned my intelligence and integrity.

Lol @DaveMatthew, Stepan, Josh Brown and Gudbranson have been terrible.

It’s almost as if posters praised every single Dorion move.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lol @DaveMatthew, Stepan, Josh Brown and Gudbranson have been terrible.

It’s almost as if posters praised every single Dorion move.

Sniff... That's my GM

 

[bert]

Not sure why you’re quoting me. The first post you quoted was me making fun of Variable 26/the Sens for having an “army” of 3 people in management. The second post was simply a discussion point. If you think that’s an insult I don’t know what to say.

There are more, it only allows me to add 10 screen shots.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don't care if Stepan would like to be playing in goddam Mongolia instead of Ottawa. He's been terrible and it's not working with the Ottawa Senators.

Waive him and send him to the TS / AHL. If you don't like playing hockey in Ottawa, how do you like not playing hockey in Ottawa? Don't like that either? Well...

 

[TheDebater]

Quote me with a real quote or screen shot, dont put quotations around something I didnt specifically say. I have asked this of you several times.

I did not put quotations, I implied that you suggested he did not want to come here and I used the word hate so that is why I put it in quotations because nobody actually knows if he "hated" coming here.

I did not go back and read the thread, but I recall your position on the subject and it turns out you were more right than all of us.

I am trying to give you credit for that, not sure why you are still a little prejudice towards me.

 

[Fuhrious]

A Wild fan blog appeared in my Google feed yesterday, talking about Stepan wanting to go there. Guy was playing around with Capfriendly and throwing around the idea of Bonino for Stepan. Frankly, I'd kill to make that swap...Bonino is massive on the faceoff dot, which is something this team desperately needs.

Of course the readers then proceeded to shoot down Bonino and throw out Rask, who wouldnt interest me in the slightest unless there was a pick (a 3rd maybe) coming back to Ottawa in the deal.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

A Wild fan blog appeared in my Google feed yesterday, talking about Stepan wanting to go there. Guy was playing around with Capfriendly and throwing around the idea of Bonino for Stepan. Frankly, I'd kill to make that swap...Bonino is massive on the faceoff dot, which is something this team desperately needs.

Of course the readers then proceeded to shoot down Bonino and throw out Rask, who wouldnt interest me in the slightest unless there was a pick (a 3rd maybe) coming back to Ottawa in the deal.

Beggars can’t be choosers. We will likely take what we can get. And attach what we need to attach

 

[Fuhrious]

Beggars can’t be choosers. We will likely take what we can get. And attach what we need to attach

Yep, and I wanted to make sure I mentioned it was a fan blog/site, as well. Basically as ITK as someone playing fantasy...

 

[cudi]

Beggars can’t be choosers. We will likely take what we can get. And attach what we need to attach

On HF lots of people certainly try lol

 

[DrEasy]

bert fully earned the right to crow on this one!

pretty sure we are beyond the red flag stage

The red flag stage was reached when he traded Ziba. His very first trade?

Why take a player at his word when you can assume he is lying, am I right?

Maybe I'm cynical, but my default is that people will say what's in their best interest. He's not going to diss Ottawa the moment the trade is consumed, surely?

Time to cut your losses - you don't eat salary, you don't sweeten the deal by adding a prospect or player so another team takes him. You just admit your mistake - put him on waivers and see if someones is foolish or desperate enought to claim him, let him play out the year with us. Caveat - only play him if you have injuries. Other wise - taxi squad. Then say avidazein at the end of the season.

I hear Stutzle is asking for a trade after seeing how you spelled this German word!

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lol @DaveMatthew, Stepan, Josh Brown and Gudbranson have been terrible.

It’s almost as if posters praised every single Dorion move.

I 100% admit that I was dead wrong.

Although Gudbranson hasn’t been terrible. He’s been fine.

Stepan, Brown and Paquette? Awful. The sooner they’re gone the better.

Message to fellow posters: it’s okay to admit you’re wrong. You don’t need to dig in your heels on every single thing, nor is there any shame in changing your opinion.

Thanks for calling me out @bert . I’m wrong a lot, just like you!

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

@ReginKarlssonLehner

I never directed insults(let alone personal) your way, brother--not sure where you interpreted insults from my post, let alone to tag me.

I have went on record several times since then to say this has not worked out and he's not even close to the same player I saw on Arizona. I did also say any trade for Stepan(even then he was nothing real special but now he's just fell off entirely) should be with us receiving an asset and it was brutal value.

I think the main reason for Stepan's disinterest is more about leaving his family behind than the Canadian weather, I was under the idea his family would move someone closer here with him, had no idea they'd stay behind and until May but alas.

 

[bert]

You also said Dadonov was not truthful when he said he didn't come here just because of the contract. It is what it is, player says one thing you insist another, I'm done with this because it doesnt matter what evidence is presented, your view of what is common sense is all that matters, nobody, including the player, is allowed to think differently.

I said Dadonov was truthful because he specifically said he came here because of the contract. You think otherwise I guess. I know the clip you sent, he was lead on to talk about Chabot and Tkachuk while english is a second language. So maybe there is more too it but he hasnt articulated it.

I dont necessarilly think Stepan was lying when he said he was excited to come here but I dont think its for the reasons you listed. I think its because an organization was giving him a chance to succeed in a prominent role so he can extend his career, he knew he wasnt getting that in Arizona. I dont think he was excited to come here because of the teams track record/potential, I dont think he was excited to come here because of the weather, the taxes or anything else. When I found out he was having a child I didnt think this had any chance of working especially considering how slow he is, I was very skeptical. I picked him really high in a hockey pool when I saw he was starting on a line with Kessel and Keller. I proceeded to watch a bunch of games and I saw he is too slow, he was too slow to play on that line. So yes I was very critical of the deal for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Liver King]

its really on Dorion to solve this issue asap

with how DJ plays him Dorion needs to make sure this doesn't linger, get rid of him now.

 

[Boud]

its really on Dorion to solve this issue asap

with how DJ plays him Dorion needs to make sure this doesn't linger, get rid of him now.

I would legit take anything to get him off this team.

 

[coladin]

I never directed insults(let alone personal) your way, brother--not sure where you interpreted insults from my post, let alone to tag me.

I have went on record several times since then to say this has not worked out and he's not even close to the same player I saw on Arizona. I did also say any trade for Stepan(even then he was nothing real special but now he's just fell off entirely) should be with us receiving an asset and it was brutal value.

I think the main reason for Stepan's disinterest is more about leaving his family behind than the Canadian weather, I was under the idea his family would move someone closer here with him, had no idea they'd stay behind and until May but alas.

Childish response is all it is. So people got it wrong and people take it like you killed one of their kids.

Stepan isn't working out. I didn't like it but understand why they did it. Look at Norris right now, he is positively flatlining. What do you do? Do you let the young player continue to slide in confidence and misery, or until they "figure it out", or do you have some veterans handy to spell them, for these players to get their bearings.

Now we can argue that Stepan should not be that veteran. Ok, fine. But do you want someone more celebrated that will be a block for years, or someone who may block a 20-30 game stretch while young star regains form and confidence?

Overly cautious is what I thought. Now, with they way Norris is really struggling, who comes in, another young underachiever or do you rely on veterans to be a pro and just play. It is not an easy situation for the organization

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Childish response is all it is. So people got it wrong and people take it like you killed one of their kids.

Stepan isn't working out. I didn't like it but understand why they did it. Look at Norris right now, he is positively flatlining. What do you do? Do you let the young player continue to slide in confidence and misery, or until they "figure it out", or do you have some veterans handy to spell them, for these players to get their bearings.

Now we can argue that Stepan should not be that veteran. Ok, fine. But do you want someone more celebrated that will be a block for years, or someone who may block a 20-30 game stretch while young star regains form and confidence?

Overly cautious is what I thought. Now, with they way Norris is really struggling, who comes in, another young underachiever or do you rely on veterans to be a pro and just play. It is not an easy situation for the organization

Agreed completely, their intentions and motives were good and correct, but Dorion’s value of Stepan was brutally off. We went hard after someone who had a good 9 game playoff stretch and paid through the nose for what essentially was still a big cap dump. Everything wrong has gone wrong and now we paying consequence of having Norris and other young guys still playing top 6 even when they struggling. Terrible.

Even if Ottawa went after Stepan, getting him for a 3rd or less would have meant we could still have a second that we’d be able to use now for help on C which Stepan failed to do. It was not a very thought out plan by Dorion.

 

[GCK]

Agreed completely, their intentions and motives were good and correct, but Dorion’s value of Stepan was brutally off. We went hard after someone who had a good 9 game playoff stretch and paid through the nose for what essentially was still a big cap dump. Everything wrong has gone wrong and now we paying consequence of having Norris and other young guys still playing top 6 even when they struggling. Terrible.

Even if Ottawa went after Stepan, getting him for a 3rd or less would have meant we could still have a second that we’d be able to use now for help on C which Stepan failed to do. It was not a very thought out plan by Dorion.

Steve Lloyd inferred today that we paid a 2nd because Arizona paid his SB. The trade itself was stupid, this if true just makes it embarrassing.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Steve Lloyd inferred today that we paid a 2nd because Arizona paid his SB. The trade itself was stupid, this if true just makes it embarrassing.

I think that's a lot more likely than Stepans value actually being a 2nd.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Steve Lloyd inferred today that we paid a 2nd because Arizona paid his SB. The trade itself was stupid, this if true just makes it embarrassing.

I think that's a lot more likely than Stepans value actually being a 2nd.

I remember hearing it too, but maybe I chose to avoid considering it because I am sick and tired of Melnyk's death grip on this team and his continued impediment on us putting out the best product possible. Nonetheless, Dorion actively chose to seek Stepan of all the options. Also, Stepan was a cap dump; we deserved to get an asset attached to Stepan, even if the bonus paid, we should have sent them a 3rd at most.