Derek Roy: The one where we talk about players who aren't Derek Roy

[opendoor]

Yup. Expect to see Schroeder and Kassian with full time jobs next year.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Raymond Schroeder Hansen
Higgins Lapierre Weise

Is likely what we'll see.

Even that's probably pretty tight. If they can manage to get Tanev, Lapierre, Schroeder, and Weise signed for basically the same money they're making now (say just under $4M combined) they'll still only have $7M to re-sign Raymond and fill in 5 additional lineup spots (6th, 7th, and 8th defensemen, backup goalie, and 13th forward).

Roy would be great to have on the 3rd line, but the only way teams ever get away with that kind of thing is if they either have guys on ELCs or they have centers that are so good that they can play with mediocre wingers and still put up Art Ross caliber seasons.

 

[Verviticus]

they could just not carry an 8th defenceman for 20 games and that would free up space. they're also going to have an enormous number of d prospects on the farm so they can always just use those as an 8th in a pinch

 

[Bleach Clean]

If the Canucks pay Roy $5M to play 3rd line center next season he'd better get used to playing with guys like Weise because that's the caliber of linemate he's going to get with how little room the Canucks would have to fill out their roster.

Roy on the 3rd line is simply a luxury the Canucks cannot afford next season.

Technically, they can afford it. But I understand what you mean by sinking money into a "marginal upgrade".

I think Roy makes sense here if they give Kesler the traditional 3rd line responsibilities.

 

[opendoor]

Technically, they can afford it. But I understand what you mean by sinking money into a "marginal upgrade".

I think Roy makes sense here if they give Kesler the traditional 3rd line responsibilities.

I'm having trouble envisioning a prospective lineup with Roy in it that is both realistic and not a short term injury or two away from disaster.

 

[Verviticus]

if you can get roy for the same price as booth then it's just straight up an upgrade, otherwise you're trading strength in the 3c for weakness somewhere else. unless there's some magic cast i dont see roy staying here

 

[shortshorts]

if you can get roy for the same price as booth then it's just straight up an upgrade, otherwise you're trading strength in the 3c for weakness somewhere else. unless there's some magic cast i dont see roy staying here

Impossible.

 

[604]

I'm having trouble envisioning a prospective lineup with Roy in it that is both realistic and not a short term injury or two away from disaster.

It depends on how you look at it.

We are never actually in a disaster situation because we have Schneider/Luongo. Any team with goaltending that good has a chance to win.

We will always be one or two injuries away from "disaster" because if Luongo + Roy are gone, either H. Sedin/Kesler or Schneider goes down...we are screwed.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm having trouble envisioning a prospective lineup with Roy in it that is both realistic and not a short term injury or two away from disaster.

The margin is very slight, but to gain the extra room, the Canucks could qualify Tanev instead of signing him to a multi-year deal.



CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Derek Roy ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Tom Sestito ($0.666m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Dale Weise ($0.677m)
Steve Pinizzotto ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.550m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Chris Campoli ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,000,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $300,000

 

[Johnny Canucker]

His brother RJ lives in Vancouver.

His brother RJ is going bananas on twitter right now about some girl. Its funny stuff.

 

[slappipappi]

The margin is very slight, but to gain the extra room, the Canucks could qualify Tanev instead of signing him to a multi-year deal.

I assume that Tanev would receive an offer sheet at those numbers. $1.68M would only cost a team 3rd round pick. They could offer up to $3.36M with only losing a 2nd round pick.

PLus, if Tanev accepted the qualifying offer, he would become a UFA at the end of the year (If Tanev accepted a 1 year term, which he undoubtedly would). That would be poor asset management by the Canucks.

I believe Tanev will cost the Canucks at least $2M next year, perhaps more if they wait too long.

Plus, I'm not sure if Luongo can be moved without taking on some poor salary back.

 

[Outside99*]

The margin is very slight, but to gain the extra room, the Canucks could qualify Tanev instead of signing him to a multi-year deal.



CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Derek Roy ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Tom Sestito ($0.666m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Dale Weise ($0.677m)
Steve Pinizzotto ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.550m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Chris Campoli ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,000,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $300,000

- with a deeper pool of prospects and no re-entry waivers, not sure what carrying a roster of 22 buys you. The 2 extra players on $550K minimum, are they going to be any better than what's on the farm? Not based on the past 4 years. Save your cap space and get a veteran RHD instead - you can always pay these guys the said $550K and leave them in the AHL. Besides, the 4th line is the reserve IMO.

 

[LiveeviL]

The margin is very slight, but to gain the extra room, the Canucks could qualify Tanev instead of signing him to a multi-year deal.



CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Derek Roy ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Tom Sestito ($0.666m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Dale Weise ($0.677m)
Steve Pinizzotto ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.550m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Chris Campoli ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,000,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $300,000

YEAH?

 

[opendoor]

I assume that Tanev would receive an offer sheet at those numbers. $1.68M would only cost a team 3rd round pick. They could offer up to $3.36M with only losing a 2nd round pick.

How many offer sheets for Tanev quality players have we seen in the history of the NHL?

PLus, if Tanev accepted the qualifying offer, he would become a UFA at the end of the year (If Tanev accepted a 1 year term, which he undoubtedly would). That would be poor asset management by the Canucks.

How could Tanev possibly become a UFA at the age of 24?

 

[opendoor]

- with a deeper pool of prospects and no re-entry waivers, not sure what carrying a roster of 22 buys you. The 2 extra players on $550K minimum, are they going to be any better than what's on the farm? Not based on the past 4 years. Save your cap space and get a veteran RHD instead - you can always pay these guys the said $550K and leave them in the AHL. Besides, the 4th line is the reserve IMO.

You seriously think the team is going to go into an 82 game season with a 20 man roster? What if someone gets hurt in the morning skate or gets sick?

 

[opendoor]

The margin is very slight, but to gain the extra room, the Canucks could qualify Tanev instead of signing him to a multi-year deal.



CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Derek Roy ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Tom Sestito ($0.666m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Dale Weise ($0.677m)
Steve Pinizzotto ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.550m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Chris Campoli ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,000,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $300,000

They're going to qualify Tanev regardless and he's not going to accept it just like any other decent RFA. And even $1.2M might be a little optimistic on a multi year deal.

And I'd argue that lineup is both a little unrealistic and potentially disastrous. A 22 man roster without the cap space to recall a player just doesn't seem realistic or prudent to me (though there is a new rule that makes this a little more viable). And going with a guy of Vandermeer's quality (who can't seem to handle the AHL, let alone the NHL) solidly in the top 6 is a recipe for trouble as well. Cam Barker netted a $700K contract so you can get a good idea what level of quality you're going to get as a permament fixture in the top 6 (and potentially the top 4 once the Canucks defense hits their usual patch of injuries) at league minimum.

Basically the Canucks would be forgoing the ability to weather injuries, have a junk bottom pairing and depth defenseman, have an absolute bottom of the barrel backup goalie, all in order to shoehorn Roy or Kesler in to the 3rd line role. And with all that, Derek Roy is still one winger injury from playing with Dale Weise which is exactly the current situation people are lamenting.


Under different circumstances it'd probably work, but even if it's technically possible to field a lineup with Roy in it I'm not sure it'd be smart; not without the benefit of key players being on bargain contracts which is something the Canucks really don't have save maybe for Hansen.

 

[Bieksallent]

YEAH?

Wouldn't it be a bit much to expect him to go from hip surgery to the NHL in one offseason?

 

[Fat Tony]

How could Tanev possibly become a UFA at the age of 24?

If the Canucks don't qualify him. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Basically the Canucks would be forgoing the ability to weather injuries, have a junk bottom pairing and depth defenseman, have an absolute bottom of the barrel backup goalie, all in order to shoehorn Roy or Kesler in to the 3rd line role. And with all that, Derek Roy is still one winger injury from playing with Dale Weise which is exactly the current situation people are lamenting.

No, it would all be to keep David Booth here. A player that has provided this team with virtually nothing over the last 2 years. Remove Booth from that roster and all of a sudden there's some breathing room for better depth and enough cap space to replace him.

Roy on the 3rd line makes a lot of sense going forward if Jensen and Kassian can slot in on his wings. Their size and style of play would help make up for Roy's diminuitive stature and their contracts would help keep the 3rd lines collective salary down.

If Schroeder takes another step forward, put Roy in the top 6 where his skill will be best served.

Without Roy, this team is 1 injury away from having abysmal centre depth. With him in the mix the team is much better insulated from injury. Teams never regret having too many natural centremen...

 

[Bleach Clean]

They're going to qualify Tanev regardless and he's not going to accept it just like any other decent RFA. And even $1.2M might be a little optimistic on a multi year deal.

If Tanev accepts his qualifier, which correct me if I'm wrong he would have to do if the team does not issue him a multi-year deal, then his cap-hit will be his salary + 10% correct?

And I'd argue that lineup is both a little unrealistic and potentially disastrous. A 22 man roster without the cap space to recall a player just doesn't seem realistic or prudent to me (though there is a new rule that makes this a little more viable). And going with a guy of Vandermeer's quality (who can't seem to handle the AHL, let alone the NHL) solidly in the top 6 is a recipe for trouble as well. Cam Barker netted a $700K contract so you can get a good idea what level of quality you're going to get as a permament fixture in the top 6 (and potentially the top 4 once the Canucks defense hits their usual patch of injuries) at league minimum.

Basically the Canucks would be forgoing the ability to weather injuries, have a junk bottom pairing and depth defenseman, have an absolute bottom of the barrel backup goalie, all in order to shoehorn Roy or Kesler in to the 3rd line role. And with all that, Derek Roy is still one winger injury from playing with Dale Weise which is exactly the current situation people are lamenting.


Under different circumstances it'd probably work, but even if it's technically possible to field a lineup with Roy in it I'm not sure it'd be smart; not without the benefit of key players being on bargain contracts which is something the Canucks really don't have save maybe for Hansen.

It's not ideal, I definitely agree there. It's perhaps the best of a bad situation. With the cap crunch looming, cut backs will have to be made somewhere. Booth can be removed if Roy is re-signed. That's still an option the team has. Or perhaps they can squeeze him in depending on how much they value depth over top6 help.

On injuries: Yes, injuries will be a big factor with a line-up like that. If they go with Booth+Roy and sacrifice quality depth, then injuries will move up guys like Weise. But at the same time, they at least start out with a player like Booth initially... Instead of a 3rd liner from FA. So the team will sacrifice something either way.

Cap space: There will be an accrual of cap space as the season wears on. Going from 300k to 600k in space shouldn't take long.

Lastly, the 6th Dman is something of a debate on that roster it seems. I'll say that AV has not hesitated to go with Barker or Alberts over the Ballard. Essentially, that position on the Canucks has been at a 700k-1.2m level anyways. Under a 70m cap. So keeping it at a 500-600k level at a 64m cap doesn't seem far fetched to me. I have to believe they can find a Cam Barker level player for that type of money out there somewhere. Campoli is a prime candidate, for instance. The point being that I don't see it as a big concern considering the options we've seen there this year.

Wouldn't it be a bit much to expect him to go from hip surgery to the NHL in one offseason?

Exactly.

 

[Scurr]

I'm having trouble envisioning a prospective lineup with Roy in it that is both realistic and not a short term injury or two away from disaster.

With one injury at centre this season we ended up with Hank, Schroeder, Lapierre, Ebbet. I'll take Weise on the 3rd line over having to watch that crap again.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Roy is not going to sign here and play 3rd line duty where he could be flanked with the likes of Dale Weise all season.

 

[Scurr]

Roy is not going to sign here and play 3rd line duty where he could be flanked with the likes of Dale Weise all season.

Daniel, Burrows, Booth, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian are all signed for next season. Jensen will be on the farm. Lets not exaggerate.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Roy is not going to sign here and play 3rd line duty where he could be flanked with the likes of Dale Weise all season.

Why is it assumed Roy will get the weaker wingers when compared to Kesler?

 

[opendoor]

If Tanev accepts his qualifier, which correct me if I'm wrong he would have to do if the team does not issue him a multi-year deal, then his cap-hit will be his salary + 10% correct?

Qualifying Offers are virtually always rejected by the player. Its only real purpose for Tanev would be to keep him as Canucks property.

It's not ideal, I definitely agree there. It's perhaps the best of a bad situation. With the cap crunch looming, cut backs will have to be made somewhere. Booth can be removed if Roy is re-signed. That's still an option the team has. Or perhaps they can squeeze him in depending on how much they value depth over top6 help.

On injuries: Yes, injuries will be a big factor with a line-up like that. If they go with Booth+Roy and sacrifice quality depth, then injuries will move up guys like Weise. But at the same time, they at least start out with a player like Booth initially... Instead of a 3rd liner from FA. So the team will sacrifice something either way.

Cap space: There will be an accrual of cap space as the season wears on. Going from 300k to 600k in space shouldn't take long.

Lastly, the 6th Dman is something of a debate on that roster it seems. I'll say that AV has not hesitated to go with Barker or Alberts over the Ballard. Essentially, that position on the Canucks has been at a 700k-1.2m level anyways. Under a 70m cap. So keeping it at a 500-600k level at a 64m cap doesn't seem far fetched to me. I have to believe they can find a Cam Barker level player for that type of money out there somewhere. Campoli is a prime candidate, for instance. The point being that I don't see it as a big concern considering the options we've seen there this year.

They might be able to do it if they can ditch Booth without any salary coming back (something that will likely be tough to do), but I don't see going with a 22 man roster or a league minimum starting defenseman being viable at all.

And cap space doesn't accrue that quickly. The Canucks would have to do through half the season without a single call up before that $300K would turn into enough space to add $600K in annual salary. Again, not going to happen.

And all that ignores the biggest factor and that's the fact that perhaps the #1 or #2 center UFA is unlikely to be willing to sign on with a team to play behind H. Sedin and Kesler.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

God, if we can't keep Roy I'll be sad. What a fun, skilled player to watch.