Decision on Blashill coming up?

[cjeagle]

If only the Red Wings could hit the reset button and just get rid of all the players they have and start over new. Then they could just win. It should be that easy considering the example you are trying to use.

I have been an NHL fan for a couple of decades now. Except for the Vegas Golden Knights, I have seen expansion teams struggle at the outset usually ending up at the bottom of the standing for several years. The Redwings record against those expansion teams through the years before Blashill took over is quite impressive.

I have also been thru the Redwings struggles during the Dead Wings era a couple of decades ago and their inability to win in the playoffs soon after that despite having all time winning records in the regular season.

The major difference between those years and the Stanley and Conference Cup winning era was the coaches. Bowman instilled a winning philosophy on the team and the players that did not brook compromise or allow complacency and a lazy attitude to develop among his players very much unlike the lackadaisical play I have seen from them from time to time this past few years. Even Yzerman had to spend time in the doghouse for a time(at one point being considered for a trade) which helped him develop into the determined complete captain he later became famous for.

More than just improving their stats, our players need to learn how to win and only a hardnosed knowledgeable coach with a winning track record could do that.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Blashill hasn't changed anything.
The Red Wings upgraded on Howard.
This was the second-worst season of Blashill's disgraceful tenure.
Let's throw a party for him.

Wait, wait, wait John. So now you are telling us that you win more by getting better players?

 

[MBH]

Wait, wait, wait John. So now you are telling us that you win more by getting better players?

Clever.

Just imagine for a second if the Red Wings didn't shit the bed last year.
Say they were just the regular, normal Blashill mediocre.
Say they played .450 hockey like the previous two years.

This year's .429 would be his worst.

But they didn't.
Last year was historically bad.

So not only did Blashill not get fired with his .275 shitshow last year.
We now actually have people talking about "progress" made for this year's .429.

It's either dishonest or delusional to look at Blashill's .429 season and pretend like this team made progress.

Our two best forwards both sucked.
Our best young prospect forwards continue to disappoint.
And Blashill just turned in the second worst of his six years in Detroit. The second worst season in Detroit in 36 years.
And he's actually getting praise on this board.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

And folks have been unhappy because it's "boring" (and netting us points we wouldn't get playing exciting hockey while getting thumped 6-2).

I think there is more to be upbeat about Blashill now than last off-season. Until this season he didn't show the ability to change his system to fit his players, instead trying to shoehorn them into that "exciting" system that people prefer but with disastrous results. Now, as Blashill (hopefully) gets more talent can he blend the styles a bit, keeping these guys defensively responsible and organized while also putting them into positions to transfer to the other end of the ice and press the attack? I don't know, but hopefully.

When were the Wings playing exciting hockey under Blashill? From the outset people here were hoping he'd play a more wide open style than Babcock and were immediately disappointed because he implemented basically the same system.

It's not like the Wings went from run and gun last season t0 defensively responsible two-way hockey this season. They went from trying to play defensively responsible hockey to sit back and trap and hope you can convert on a counterattack then hang on.

There's definitely more to be upbeat about the team than last season, but I don't know that the Blashill was a big reason. His line blender was still in full effect. The power play continues to be an abomination. And he probably had the 1-2-2 painted onto his dry erase board so he wouldn't have to bother re-drawing it every time.

 

[Winger98]

When were the Wings playing exciting hockey under Blashill? From the outset people here were hoping he'd play a more wide open style than Babcock and were immediately disappointed because he implemented basically the same system.

It's not like the Wings went from run and gun last season t0 defensively responsible two-way hockey this season. They went from trying to play defensively responsible hockey to sit back and trap and hope you can convert on a counterattack then hang on.

There's definitely more to be upbeat about the team than last season, but I don't know that the Blashill was a big reason. His line blender was still in full effect. The power play continues to be an abomination. And he probably had the 1-2-2 painted onto his dry erase board so he wouldn't have to bother re-drawing it every time.

I didn't see them trying to be defensively responsible last year or the year before it. They routinely left their D out to dry, left the zone early, and tried to play an up tempo game that focused way more on trying to push the play and cause turnovers than playing anything remotely responsible defensively.

Was it exciting? No, because they suck. Was it successful? No, again, because they suck. If Blashill went with a 1-2-2 trap last year, a system that may have actually worked to hide some of the uglier flaws, maybe they wouldn't have been historically bad. Still bad, but not historically so.

And I don't know why you're ragging on Blashill putting this team into a 1-2-2. Yzerman gave him Merrill, Stecher, and Staal as upgrades to the backend over the summer. These are not guys who are going to fuel an up-tempo game. Thankfully, that was actually recognized this year and we didn't try to force this team to pretend it could do it. I'm not saying Blashill is the only reason this season wasn't a disaster, but I think it's clear he changed tactics and he went with a system that actually fit the team he was given. Folks might not like the 1-2-2 but it sure as hell wasn't what he was running the previous several years and it definitely fit this team better than his previous systems.

 

[jkutswings]

Folks might not like the 1-2-2 but it sure as hell wasn't what he was running the previous several years and it definitely fit this team better than his previous systems.

Agreed, and from that standpoint he's doing his job in trying to win as many games as he can with the personnel he has.

But in the bigger picture of the rebuild, Detroit needs to either get more talent here soon and/or get another coach. Blashill strikes me as the guy to squeeze what he can from a bad roster, but not excell when the games matter at an NHL level of competition. And dragging the team from a top 5 pick to a top 10-15 pick doesn't help anybody but the players, who aren't yet the right guys to eventually win meaningful games.

I can buy that Blashill is the Bryan Murray of this era, but that leaves him at best as the placeholder for when the roster is good enough to deserve a similarly talented head coach.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I didn't see them trying to be defensively responsible last year or the year before it. They routinely left their D out to dry, left the zone early, and tried to play an up tempo game that focused way more on trying to push the play and cause turnovers than playing anything remotely responsible defensively.

Was it exciting? No, because they suck. Was it successful? No, again, because they suck. If Blashill went with a 1-2-2 trap last year, a system that may have actually worked to hide some of the uglier flaws, maybe they wouldn't have been historically bad. Still bad, but not historically so.

And I don't know why you're ragging on Blashill putting this team into a 1-2-2. Yzerman gave him Merrill, Stecher, and Staal as upgrades to the backend over the summer. These are not guys who are going to fuel an up-tempo game. Thankfully, that was actually recognized this year and we didn't try to force this team to pretend it could do it. I'm not saying Blashill is the only reason this season wasn't a disaster, but I think it's clear he changed tactics and he went with a system that actually fit the team he was given. Folks might not like the 1-2-2 but it sure as hell wasn't what he was running the previous several years and it definitely fit this team better than his previous systems.

I wouldn't rip on him if he ran the 1-2-2 sometimes and didn't use it as the default system for most of the game. Again, there are more options than running a 1-2-2 or an uptempo game.

Yzerman has said that it's not about the wins and losses as much as developing players, but Blashill is running prevent defense for most of games to try and squeak out wins or loser points. Those aren't aligned goals.

 

[Ricelund]

LOL.
McCarty? Douchebag who's stoned more often than not.
Osgood? He's a paid shill.
Draper? Paid by the Red Wings.

Your "appeal to authority" fallacy is just more of the same hometown logic that's plagued this organization for more than a decade now, that plagues virtually all sports fan communities.

I mean... sure, re: McCarty. I guess.

I wasn't referring to comments made by Osgood on FSD.

It sounds like you just don't trust management if you're saying Draper is "paid by the Red Wings".

Then again, this is the same management that let AA go so I'm not surprised.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed, and from that standpoint he's doing his job in trying to win as many games as he can with the personnel he has.

But in the bigger picture of the rebuild, Detroit needs to either get more talent here soon and/or get another coach. Blashill strikes me as the guy to squeeze what he can from a bad roster, but not excell when the games matter at an NHL level of competition. And dragging the team from a top 5 pick to a top 10-15 pick doesn't help anybody but the players, who aren't yet the right guys to eventually win meaningful games.

I can buy that Blashill is the Bryan Murray of this era, but that leaves him at best as the placeholder for when the roster is good enough to deserve a similarly talented head coach.

Hey, tell that to last year's team.

I think there is value to putting the kids into competitive games, and I don't think playing the 1-2-2 is going to stunt their development. You get truly skilled guys into that system and they suddenly don't become unskilled, but they can make that system way more frustrating for the other team because suddenly instead of the system propping up the players, there are players using the system to choke off the other team and create offense. Truly skilled players make that system a nightmare for opposing teams.

I don't really care if Blashill is here next year or not. I'm more with you in the whole needing to get better players. I just disagree entirely that Blashill didn't shift the system this year to something that actually fit the players he had, and that it definitely made a difference on the ice. I can get not liking the guy, I can get not liking the system he went with, but I don't think it's arguable that he changing systems and that it affected how this team played.

I wouldn't rip on him if he ran the 1-2-2 sometimes and didn't use it as the default system for most of the game. Again, there are more options than running a 1-2-2 or an uptempo game.

Yzerman has said that it's not about the wins and losses as much as developing players, but Blashill is running prevent defense for most of games to try and squeak out wins or loser points. Those aren't aligned goals.

I don't think this a team that can really deviate from that system and expect things to go well. I don't agree that players can't be grown in a 1-2-2 system or that it will kill their development. skilled guys are going to be skilled guys. If we're worried about the environment in Detroit hindering the development of guys, I think the lack of talent around the young guys has the potential to cause far more damage. And if you brought in more talent, then they could open up the system a bit.

My big hope is that we see an actual upgrade brought onto the blueline (other than Seider, who I think is going to be a noticeable upgrade from day one) and either a significant signing up front or more kids. Oh, and better health from everyone. If we restock the cupboard with a bunch of guys who are realistically 3d line or 3rd pair quality players... well, we get what we pay for.

 

[MBH]

I mean... sure, re: McCarty. I guess.

I wasn't referring to comments made by Osgood on FSD.

It sounds like you just don't trust management if you're saying Draper is "paid by the Red Wings".

Then again, this is the same management that let AA go so I'm not surprised.

It sounds like you blindly approve of whatever they do.

I agree with Yzerman's moves when they make sense to me.
I disagree with them when they don't.
Maybe that's a novel concept to you.

I see no reason to keep this historically bad coach under Wings' employment.

If you want to list for me the important young Wings players who are making great strides under Blashill, I'm willing to listen.

But good luck with that.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

When were the Wings playing exciting hockey under Blashill? From the outset people here were hoping he'd play a more wide open style than Babcock and were immediately disappointed because he implemented basically the same system.

It's not like the Wings went from run and gun last season t0 defensively responsible two-way hockey this season. They went from trying to play defensively responsible hockey to sit back and trap and hope you can convert on a counterattack then hang on.

There's definitely more to be upbeat about the team than last season, but I don't know that the Blashill was a big reason. His line blender was still in full effect. The power play continues to be an abomination. And he probably had the 1-2-2 painted onto his dry erase board so he wouldn't have to bother re-drawing it every time.

If you want more exciting hockey, get better players (especially on the blueline). Until we can move the puck out of our zone more effectively and efficiently, we aren't going to see overly exciting hockey.

Mark my words: if we hired a new coach tomorrow (which we should), we would see more 1-2-2 for the foreseeable future.

Moving on from Blash is the right move. Expecting a different result without a significant change in personnel is asking for disappointment.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

If you want more exciting hockey, get better players (especially on the blueline). Until we can move the puck out of our zone more effectively and efficiently, we aren't going to see overly exciting hockey.

Mark my words: if we hired a new coach tomorrow (which we should), we would see more 1-2-2 for the foreseeable future.

Moving on from Blash is the right move. Expecting a different result without a significant change in personnel is asking for disappointment.

I'm not asking or expecting a different result. And it's not just about boring hockey. But I do think there are alternatives to running the 1-2-2 all game and chipping it high and hard off the glass for zone exits.

Sutter managed to get 4th line scrubs running great zone exits on the Kings some years ago. There's ways to get out of the zone even with less talented players. The defense has plenty of room for improvement but is significantly better than it was last season.

This isn't directed at you only but I feel like the point I'm trying to make keeps getting piled into things I'm not saying. It's not about boring hockey. It's not about expecting the Wings to suddenly compete for the playoffs. Blashill went with a super-conservative defensive shell this season that I think may be hindering some young players development.

Next season we will have Seider and hopefully some other upgrades, along with healthy players. This team could take another significant step forward but if Blashill continues to be Jacques Lemaire Jr, I don't see what the point is.

 

[Oddbob]

Perhaps they will offer him another role in the organization.

Checking the under neath of tables for gum?

 

[Oddbob]

Clever.

Just imagine for a second if the Red Wings didn't shit the bed last year.
Say they were just the regular, normal Blashill mediocre.
Say they played .450 hockey like the previous two years.

This year's .429 would be his worst.

But they didn't.
Last year was historically bad.

So not only did Blashill not get fired with his .275 shitshow last year.
We now actually have people talking about "progress" made for this year's .429.

It's either dishonest or delusional to look at Blashill's .429 season and pretend like this team made progress.

Our two best forwards both sucked.
Our best young prospect forwards continue to disappoint.
And Blashill just turned in the second worst of his six years in Detroit. The second worst season in Detroit in 36 years.
And he's actually getting praise on this board.

Stockholm Syndrome.

Did we shit the bed this year? We have the worst roster in the league and still somehow finished with only the 6th-7th worst record. I think we won about 5-6 more games than we should have quite honestly with this roster.

I am on the get rid of Blashill train for sure, however the team did as good and better than they could have with this roster. I want Blash gone, because I don't like how he uses players, line choices etc, and he has been here long enough with a losing record, and his message is likely beyond stale at this point for those in the room.

 

[redwings8831]

 

[Bench]

I wouldn't rip on him if he ran the 1-2-2 sometimes and didn't use it as the default system for most of the game. Again, there are more options than running a 1-2-2 or an uptempo game.

Yzerman has said that it's not about the wins and losses as much as developing players, but Blashill is running prevent defense for most of games to try and squeak out wins or loser points. Those aren't aligned goals.

All the time that's being spent now by guys like Zadina, when they get surrounded by actual elite talent, is going to pay dividends. This statement will be mocked, I have no doubt, but it's why Blashill has kept his job to this point.

Despite my frustrations with the current state of the Wings, when I watch games, I see a lot of guys losing 1 on 1 battles and not being able to execute plays on superior players. It's rare it's a total system collapse that sinks this team. Yzerman has been coveting players with a willingness to buy in to structure and follow assignments. Those that didn't are already gone.

This isn't a ringing endorsement that Jeff Blashill is the only coach capable of doing this. Of course not. But the system on ice is more than competent. Flame away, folks.

 

[LeftWingLocked]

Where is Keith Gave when we need him? He was a trouble maker at times but at least had insider info. Our local beat reporters are letting us down on what’s going on

 

[Bench]

Where is Keith Gave when we need him? He was a trouble maker at times but at least had insider info. Our local beat reporters are letting us down on what’s going on

No doubt they've heard scuttlebutt, but they aren't going to leak anything until it's got the Wings stamp of approval to distribute. This will enrage some and the Super Friends will continue to not give a flyin' goose what Johnny Blogger has to say and maintain their good relations with the team.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Yeah, Detroit is one of the worst towns for the sports media being "on payroll". Dissenters are run out pretty quick. I'm surprised Valenti is still on the air, to be honest.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Blashill hasn't changed anything.
The Red Wings upgraded on Howard.
This was the second-worst season of Blashill's disgraceful tenure.
Let's throw a party for him.

The Wings faced a fraction of the high danger chances they did last year. What are you talking about with "not changing"?

Jimmy Howard Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Thomas Greiss Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

At ES,
19-20 Howard faced 658 total shots. Of that, they determined 368 were "good" chances and 124 were "high danger".
20-21 Greiss faced 717 total shots. Of that, they determined 157 were "good" chances and 30 were "high danger".

Bernier in 19-20 faced 1079 total shots. Of that, 588 were "good" chances and 202 were "high danger".
Bernier in 20-21 faced 611 total shots. Of that, 142 were "good" and 46 were "high danger".

Like, these numbers should be indisputable about the Wings defense and structure being worlds better in 20-21 over 19-20. This isn't to go to bat for Howard, because he was all-time bad last year... but my god did the Wings leave their goalies out to dry in 19-20. Bernier was phenomenal in the face of that.

There are many ways to build a team from scratch.

The Vegas Golden Knights showed that you could build a competitive successful team fairly quickly with the right coaches, staff and players in place.

They have made the playoffs since they started 4 years ago most of them under former Redwing Gerald Gallant.

We could just keep on meandering by with Blashill who managed to keep his team out of the playoffs for 6 straight years or start anew with someone like Gallant which coached a team built from expansion leftovers and draft picks and led them to the Stanley Cup final.

We shouldn't be blinded by the fact that the Redwings better record this year was built mostly on the shoulders of both our goaltenders without which Blashill would have looked the inept coach he has been the past 6 years.

Steve could use the budget he has to add a few skilled players to the young promising core they already have in place. They just need a winning coach with a proven NHL track record to develop a competitive team.

The Golden Knights had complete flexibility to structure their team however they wanted without the burden of any long term deals to old players. They also got the benefit of being paid to take a legitimate top line from the rest of the league. Marchessault, R. Smith, Karlsson... they were given these guys and these guys with a massive chip on their shoulder because the old teams literally paid Vegas to take them. No, what we shouldn't do is say "VGK did this from scratch, so what the f*** is Detroit doing"? Detroit isn't being handed Jonathan Marchessault for free. If Detroit could have just blinked Nielsen, Abdelkader, Weiss, DeKeyser, Zetteberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, etc's contracts out of existence for no cost, they would have been able to make sweeping changes all at once too.

Again, no, it wasn't based upon our goalies magically being superheroes. Bernier and Greiss faced in 20-21 less good chances combined than Howard himself faced in 19-20. Combined, they faced about 60% of the high danger chances that Howard alone faced. The 1-2-2 made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in what the goalies were asked to do.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No doubt they've heard scuttlebutt, but they aren't going to leak anything until it's got the Wings stamp of approval to distribute. This will enrage some and the Super Friends will continue to not give a flyin' goose what Johnny Blogger has to say and maintain their good relations with the team.

This is something I always realize I couldn't care less about. I just assume that HSJ and crew will say whatever and people will lose their minds. I don't think a "tough" media area makes any damn difference into how good the team is or has any impact whatsoever about what a proper NHL organization does to improve their team. The Red Wings had the Super Friends running the media show for the 30 years prior to 2016 as well. When we were winning 4 Cups, we had Ted Kulfan writing articles, HSJ weighing in, drops from Drew Sharp, Chris McCosky, and I'm sure Art Regner was heavily involved in this stuff too.

The team is good or the team is bad. How the media covers it has absolutely nothing to do with any of it. I'm not saying you're complaining about it Bench, this is just the most recent one that was in there. It just builds into my whole thought process that the Lions are finally starting to teach me. If the team sucks and you're not happy... turn it off and watch something else for a while that does make you happy.

"Is only game, why you heff to be mad?"

 

[jkutswings]

But the system on ice is more than competent. Flame away, folks.

No flames, because it is competent.
But entertaining? Not a chance.

I would actually sooner become the Colorado Avalanche of the last few years and ice an entertaining product with no championships thus far to show for it, than become the New Jersey Devils of yesteryear, winning Cups with an approach that sucks every last ounce of fun out of the game.

I want talent and creativity showcased, both for my own amusement and the good of the sport. And low event hockey to the extreme (regardless of how appropriate it might be for a given roster) is something I will never confuse with entertainment, let alone support on a regular basis.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No flames, because it is competent.
But entertaining? Not a chance.

I would actually sooner become the Colorado Avalanche of the last few years and ice an entertaining product with no championships thus far to show for it, than become the New Jersey Devils of yesteryear, winning Cups with an approach that sucks every last ounce of fun out of the game.

I want talent and creativity showcased, both for my own amusement and the good of the sport. And low event hockey to the extreme (regardless of how appropriate it might be for a given roster) is something I will never confuse with entertainment, let alone support on a regular basis.

Yeah. But entertaining, free-flowing hockey is something you do when you have a bunch of skill. Detroit right now does not in any way, shape, or form have a bunch of skill. You saw just in the ES shots data I shared above. When they tried playing more wide open... they gave up literally 5x the great chances and over 3x just what the statisticians ranked as "good" scoring chances. The Wings simply don't have anything remotely in the neighborhood of being able to showcase talent and creativity right now. I'd rather we play low-event until we can get the guys like Seider, Raymond, Berggren, etc. in tow. When you can have Zadina willing and able to backcheck while he looks for offensive opportunities.

If the Wings continue with the low-event hockey for several more years... I'm not gonna be thrilled about that because they should start finding better hockey players. But right now, it keeps games from getting out of hand and it keeps guys like Zadina and when they come up full time, like Veleno, Raymond, Berggren, Seider, etc. more engaged in the game and not looking to fold up their chairs and go home when they are down 5-0 in the 1st.

 

[Bench]

No flames, because it is competent.
But entertaining? Not a chance.

That's a different argument.

I don't believe this is how the team plays if they have any shade of offensive acumen. We're in about the same spot as the Ducks right now. It will be interesting to follow the progression of both teams. The Ducks have Eakins, who I think in many ways has a lot in common with Blashill in the situations they inherited.

Some of you may find these comments interesting. You could almost swap out the Wings situation with it verbatim.

Ducks coach Dallas Eakins seeks patience during rebuild – Orange County Register

“When you’re a team in transition, when you’re rebuilding, it’s not for the faint of heart,” Ducks coach Dallas Eakins said. “Everyone, to a man, wants this to go fast. I want it to go fast. ‘Murph’ wants it to go fast. Our fan base wants it to go fast. The reality is it takes a high level of patience and it’s hard to do.”

Eakins referred to Ducks general manager Bob Murray by his nickname.

“That’s part of the deal,” Eakins said. “It’s not just a young player learning about the league and learning about his teammates, it’s Adam Henrique learning where Trevor (Zegras) is going to be or what his habits are. It’s Troy Terry learning the same thing.

“I think that’s why it’s so important for everyone just to be patient. We’ve got other guys like (Max) Comtois, and now you see Terry really getting his feet underneath him. (Isac) Lundestrom is making great strides. They all have a long way to go and you see how much time that is taking.”

Not for the faint of heart, indeed. But here's the REAL meat I wanted to share:

Catching up with a faster-paced and more skillful league has been an ongoing battle since the Ducks’ last playoff appearance in 2017-18. They began this season relying heavily on goaltending and tight defensive play, then opened up offensively and paid the price in the form of several one-sided defeats.

Recently, they’ve returned to a more defensive-oriented game plan.

“We might have gotten ahead of ourselves,” Eakins said. “You want to turn this around so fast for everyone, for the players, for the fans. We really buckled down. Our whole mindset was we’re going to win 1-0. At some point, you can’t just keep doing that. You’ve got to really chip away and try to instill an offensive mindset, too.

“We might have gotten a little ahead of ourselves there.”

Lately, the Ducks have simplified their game plan.

“It’s going to be a staple of how we play here over the next two or three years,” Eakins said. “We’re just going to start with that. We’re not going to get ahead of ourselves in what we’re trying to do. But we are back to, “Hey, that other team is going to have to work hard or try to nail us with a power play or something.’

“I do feel like we’ve tightened it up.”

You could just replace Eakins with Blashill here and it would be the identical story between last year and this year. This isn't a struggle unique to the Wings. This isn't the way these coaches want to coach. But the second they open up their team, they get shelled, and learn you gotta dial it back and keep instilling those defensive fundamentals.

 

[jkutswings]

<snip>

Everything you said and referenced is logical.

I'm just being selfish from the angle that boring hockey is helping a rebuilding team win enough games to not be dead last but not be any good, which in turn hurts their draft stock without being worth watching in the meantime.

I know they're human beings and asking to go 0-82 every year until the cupboard is stocked isn't remotely realistic. But continuing to essentially ignore the on-ice product for another few years (while a coach I don't see in the long term plans uses scheme to prop up a baby animal that's still too weak to walk) isn't all that appetizing either.