Decision on Blashill coming up?

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Reddwit

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This is something I always realize I couldn't care less about. I just assume that HSJ and crew will say whatever and people will lose their minds. I don't think a "tough" media area makes any damn difference into how good the team is or has any impact whatsoever about what a proper NHL organization does to improve their team. The Red Wings had the Super Friends running the media show for the 30 years prior to 2016 as well. When we were winning 4 Cups, we had Ted Kulfan writing articles, HSJ weighing in, drops from Drew Sharp, Chris McCosky, and I'm sure Art Regner was heavily involved in this stuff too.

The team is good or the team is bad. How the media covers it has absolutely nothing to do with any of it. I'm not saying you're complaining about it Bench, this is just the most recent one that was in there. It just builds into my whole thought process that the Lions are finally starting to teach me. If the team sucks and you're not happy... turn it off and watch something else for a while that does make you happy.

"Is only game, why you heff to be mad?"

The Red Wings sheltered Babcock and his abuses for 10 years. Colaiaocavo and Chelios both confirmed that “Red Wings leadership” (aka troublemakers like Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg) were eventually going to Holland every year begging to get Babcock fired. And all we heard were some rumblings of a little unrest in Babs’ dying days here.

Then he goes to Toronto, and doesn’t even make it halfway through his contract before the media teases out Marner’s story and justifiably runs Babcock not just out of Toronto but out of the league.

But sure. No difference.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

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The Red Wings sheltered Babcock and his abuses for 10 years. Colaiaocavo and Chelios both confirmed that “Red Wings leadership” (aka troublemakers like Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg) were eventually going to Holland every year begging to get Babcock fired. And all we heard were some rumblings of a little unrest in Babs’ dying days here.

Then he goes to Toronto, and doesn’t even make it halfway through his contract before the media teases out Marner’s story and justifiably runs Babcock not just out of Toronto but out of the league.

But sure. No difference.

Bullshit. Babcock got ran out of Toronto because the team had a roster loaded for f***ing bear and they couldn't make it out of the first round and they were struggling through the start of the 19-20 season under .500. Toronto wins one playoff series, you've still got Babcock there being the dick that he is. Winning cures everything and losing brings out the people with pitchforks looking for something to be mad about. Babcock got fired because it became really damn evident that his ludicrously talented team had entirely stopped playing for him (There is no earthly way that Toronto team, in 19-20, should ever have been 9-10-4). He got fired because they were getting worse in the playoffs and had just lost in consecutive years to Boston and didn't look like they were making progress.

You didn't hear the stories about things like with Franzen because, sadly, even 2010 was a ludicrously different time than now. Things like mental health issues, verbal abuse, and what not in professional sports were looked at with a "this guy is a real wuss and not a real man" instead of with the appropriate view that verbal browbeatings are not an appropriate thing for a coach to do. People didn't take the stories of guys like Mike Commodore with anything more than a grain of salt because Commodore was known to be an abrasive dick who had an axe to grind.

But sure, Toronto media are just the greatest and they can do no wrong. The media wanted to find something to get Babcock drummed out because the Maple Leafs were seemingly capped out and not getting better. Babcock was doing the same questionable "washed vet or never-was over kid with potential" bullshit that he did in Detroit. He played Patrick Marleau more than Auston Matthews in the most recent game 7 against Boston. He pinned down guys like Justin Holl, Josh Leivo, and other potentially useful kids for duffers like Roman Polak, Matt Hunwick, and others. Toronto's front office clipped Babcock because the team was wildly underperforming, not because the media put some blitz out on him.
 

SirKillalot

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I've heard some pretty big praise for Blashill from Yzerman, McCarty, Draper, Osgood, etc. in relatively candid contexts. I really couldn't care less what the fanbase thinks of him. We have no idea how the guys in the room feel about him and that's what matters.

Which would be why he would stay. I see it as Blashill is just doing what Yzerman has told him to do, and he has agreed with it. I don't think it's like Yzerman says one thing and Blashill an coach however he'd like. I think this will be in the future, but right now, they have agreed on what to do, what to focus on and even though it's not allowed to say in public, make the team stay close to bottom to draft good players while developing parts of players game.

Actually, when I see Blash talking about the prospect of returning, it's like he's trying to find silver linings, not throwing his hands up, but I don't see where any of the things he lists are really a result of his coaching. For example, he recently mentioned the team finished better this year than last. Well, it was a given that they would improve a little over last season because they got some goaltending. We all said they would get more points.

As mentioned above, I think he and Yzerman has agreed on how to play, what to focus on, but stay close to a high draft pick. Playing with limits basically.

You don't go from historically bad to true Stanley Cup contender overnight most of the time. We're going to hit a phase where we are a bubble team. We might even hit that phase next year if Veleno, Seider, Berggren and Zadina start to be impact players.

That is true, but I don't want a "quick fix" to bubble team status. Then I would rather get the right pieces and tactics in order and finish 5/6th in the conference and take steps from there. Alternative like Penguins in 07, where they were a bubble team with young core pieces and next year conference champion.

The Wings have a huge cap advantage, shit tons of draft picks, and good, respected prospects coming in. Because of the pandemic and cap crunch lots of players are going to hit free agency who normally wouldnt. Passing up on all of that would be willful malpractice and keeping Blashill would be a sign to me that this team is not serious about building or fielding a winning roster, and a sure sign that Chris Ilitch is the second coming of "Dollar Bill" Wirtz, running a storied franchise into the ground.

Which I hope they don't waste on players to end up in mediocrity in terms of being a playoff team that can't acheive anything. A lot of those players don't do magic elsewhere, so why would they suddenly do magic here?

I can only speak for myself, but I just want to watch a more exciting brand of hockey for the time being. Wether we play with Blashill's current system, where the focus is on defensive responsibility and limiting offensive risks, or we hire a new coach with a new system, we are still nowhere near a playoff team yet.

I would rather watch exciting 4-3 games, maybe win some games 4-2 and 4-3, as opposed to trying to shut the door defensively, only to lose 2-1 or 3-1. I am ready to see some goals. It's been too many years of bland/boring hockey.

Also, why not make a change? Don't you think a new voice behind the bench would be a breath of fresh air for some of these guys? I get what Blashill tries to do, and sure he has made a few of our players become more complete players..BUT we didn't draft Zadina to be a defensive specialist...

I do agree with that. I also want to see more offensively minded hockey. But not if your defense is just lackluster and no cup can be won because of it. If they rather build that defensive qualities and confidence and then let go on limits offensively and let players play, I think that approach would be better. The alternative is to trade for or sign real quality D-men from FA. Which doesn't often come by and are available.

The Vegas Golden Knights showed that you could build a competitive successful team fairly quickly with the right coaches, staff and players in place.





Trades[edit]
In return for agreeing to select certain unprotected players, the Golden Knights were granted concessions by other franchises.
Post-draft[edit]

Not all players selected by the Golden Knights in the Expansion Draft would remain with the team. Some players were traded in the following days, some the day after:
Other players who were no longer on the Golden Knights' roster at the start of the 2017–18 NHL season include the following:

This is Vegas opening draft player and roster moves.
They acquired a number 1 goalie in Fleury
Florida Panthers gave them Reilly Smith for them to take Jonathan Marchessault.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/33903/reilly-smith
Jonathan Marchessault at eliteprospects.com
Both solid NHL-players, both having acheived 50 points before, Smith did it twice.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/23166/cody-eakin
Drafted Cody Eakin who had several 35 points seasons and quite servicebale bottom six or low end 2nd line center.
I don't want to go through all, but they drafted many very servicable d-men, who albeit not top notch, still no slouch's either. They also got young talent to draft less talented, but experienced players. For example Theodore and Tuch. And they got pieces for the future and took on some contract to example take William Karlsson, which they in turn could use in a bigger role than what he had where he was. That goes for some other players as well, which in logjams elsewhere could cherish some freedom there. Plus all of the assets the team got to take on players and then to trade some players away again.

Point is, they got an NHL-ready roster, and more so especially on the back end, even though most didn't expect their offense to flourish as much as they did. We don't have that back end, nor enough forwards with upside and future in the roster at this time. However, they are coming.
Biggest concern and difference is defense quality, goalie quality and future. That is not comperable from Red Wings to what Vegas were able to weal and deal.


Agreed! Blashill is well respected around the league and he has not lost the locker room which is important.

Which again has to do with people probably have word of or know by experience that he is coaching with limits and in a specific way for more planned and hopeful future benefits in regards to development and other assets coming into the team at a later stage.

Sadly, that roster of expansion draft leftovers is exponentially more talented than the trash we run out every night.

The "expansion leftovers" where a mix of quality pieces, solid NHL'ers still with future and possibility to trend upwards and exciting talent in the mix.
 
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SirKillalot

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The Red Wings sheltered Babcock and his abuses for 10 years. Colaiaocavo and Chelios both confirmed that “Red Wings leadership” (aka troublemakers like Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg) were eventually going to Holland every year begging to get Babcock fired.

I don't believe this until one of those speak up. Both persons who have spoke have had a torn in their side to Babcock. Z, D and Lidstrom don't have anything to lose to speak up.

The whole Franzen incidents I as I read things, don't think anyone knew they extend of his mental state. And honestly think it's been blown up given the end of Franzen's career and his state now.
Again, these guys have nothing holding them back of speaking out about things if they want to., if there is something there. I have only read once that Z spoke about it, and he said he didn't know and hadn't seen the extent of it. Or it's possible that he being in the league for many years, in many cases are used to coaches being on different players now and then and it sort of is a part of pro hockey.
 

MBH

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Bullshit. Babcock got ran out of Toronto because the team had a roster loaded for f***ing bear and they couldn't make it out of the first round and they were struggling through the start of the 19-20 season under .500. Toronto wins one playoff series, you've still got Babcock there being the dick that he is. Winning cures everything and losing brings out the people with pitchforks looking for something to be mad about. Babcock got fired because it became really damn evident that his ludicrously talented team had entirely stopped playing for him (There is no earthly way that Toronto team, in 19-20, should ever have been 9-10-4). He got fired because they were getting worse in the playoffs and had just lost in consecutive years to Boston and didn't look like they were making progress.

You didn't hear the stories about things like with Franzen because, sadly, even 2010 was a ludicrously different time than now. Things like mental health issues, verbal abuse, and what not in professional sports were looked at with a "this guy is a real wuss and not a real man" instead of with the appropriate view that verbal browbeatings are not an appropriate thing for a coach to do. People didn't take the stories of guys like Mike Commodore with anything more than a grain of salt because Commodore was known to be an abrasive dick who had an axe to grind.

But sure, Toronto media are just the greatest and they can do no wrong. The media wanted to find something to get Babcock drummed out because the Maple Leafs were seemingly capped out and not getting better. Babcock was doing the same questionable "washed vet or never-was over kid with potential" bullshit that he did in Detroit. He played Patrick Marleau more than Auston Matthews in the most recent game 7 against Boston. He pinned down guys like Justin Holl, Josh Leivo, and other potentially useful kids for duffers like Roman Polak, Matt Hunwick, and others. Toronto's front office clipped Babcock because the team was wildly underperforming, not because the media put some blitz out on him.

You like apologist media, just like you like like apologist posters.
You attack anyone who posts anything attacking the status quo, or who criticizes anything about this organization.

We're sitting here in Blashill's 5th straight year out of the playoffs.
Accomplished NHL coaches all over the league have been fired for less, and we've still got the same cast and crew making excuses for Blashill.

So of course you're going to rip on the Toronto press for destroying Babcock.

You spent years shitting on people who told that Babcock was despised by his players.

And since our cowardly Detroit media wouldn't touch those issues - they basically still pretend it didn't happen - it gives people who hate the uncomfortable truth the cover to pretend everything is just great.

The same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Babcock a pass for being a douchebag, is the same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Holland a pass as he drove the franchise into the ground, that allowed Ilitch to PRETEND Holland was "promoted", that will give Yzerman a pass for keeping Blashill around.

They have an aversion to truth.
They're basically just a mouthpiece for DRW marketing.

And while it's only f***ing hockey, truth still matters to some degree, doesn't it?
 

MBH

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I don't believe this until one of those speak up. Both persons who have spoke have had a torn in their side to Babcock. Z, D and Lidstrom don't have anything to lose to speak up.

The whole Franzen incidents I as I read things, don't think anyone knew they extend of his mental state. And honestly think it's been blown up given the end of Franzen's career and his state now.
Again, these guys have nothing holding them back of speaking out about things if they want to., if there is something there. I have only read once that Z spoke about it, and he said he didn't know and hadn't seen the extent of it. Or it's possible that he being in the league for many years, in many cases are used to coaches being on different players now and then and it sort of is a part of pro hockey.

It was reported by posters in this group and other popular Red Wings groups...
that Hudler, Filppula and Franzen absolutely hated Babcock's guts. Filppula wouldn't even talk contract with Holland. Franzen despised coming to work.
Part of the reason I was unfairly harsh on Franzen was because I felt he quit on his team. I didn't hear about the depths of his concussion issues.
But I did hear from people close to the team who said Franzen would never play a game for the Wings while Babcock was coach.
While I understood that, I didn't respect it, because I felt it was unfair to his teammates.

The hatred couldn't be hidden by reporters who refused to do their job.
The stories got out because people talk.

You know how the media in Detroit works.
Nothing. No reporting. Then a player leaves and the local media throws him under the bus as a favor to the Red Wings PR department.

Call it "journalism" if you want.
That's not what I'd call it.
 

DetroitRed

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As mentioned above, I think he and Yzerman has agreed on how to play, what to focus on, but stay close to a high draft pick. Playing with limits basically.

Well, that wouldn't explain his career before Yzerman.

I think Jeff is trying to make an impact and I give him enough credit not to assume the general manager has to make coaching decisions for him. If I thought that, I would want a new coach even more because the ownership needs to trust the decisions of the GM and the GM needs to be able to trust the head coach in turn to do his job. I think Jeff is responsible for Jeff. Moreover, I don't think that Jeff necessarily had to come up with a winning record in order to consider his tenure with the Wings as successful.

Also, I don't think people inside the organization liking Jeff is anything to pay attention to. Steve's almost certainly not going to make it publicly known ahead of time if he has thinks he can improve coaching and changing coaches wouldn't necessarily mean that he doesn't get along with Blashill.

You can be friends with someone and on the same page together when it comes to hockey, but that doesn't mean you can't or should not find someone else more talented if the opportunity comes along. In fact, you can be best friends and on the same basic page with the worst coach in all of sports history. Or you can at least be polite and professional towards them publicly instead of putting all of the dirty laundry onto the front lawn. It doesn't mean you won't hire someone else.
 
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SirKillalot

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The same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Babcock a pass for being a douchebag, is the same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Holland a pass as he drove the franchise into the ground, that allowed Ilitch to PRETEND Holland was "promoted", that will give Yzerman a pass for keeping Blashill around.

Well, the way I see it is that Holland got the choice of being fired or mutually decide to end it, or be promoted. And not because he was doing a bad job, he was actually finally learning to operate within the salary cap era, that took him a bit.

But, it was more so that people in charge wanted to hire Yzerman as it has been "in the works" for many years, and an overall long term plan was that he did get the request of becoming the GM when Holland leaves. Yzerman was available, Holland had been here for many years and everyone could see that the Red Wings would have to go through a rebuild at some point within the salary cap era. And reason is that one couldn't attract players anymore in the same degree as Red Wings were not a power house anymore, were not a team with unlimited cap, so those player had options to get long term high quality deals elsewhere even though those teams were not necessarily better.

It was reported by posters in this group and other popular Red Wings groups...
that Hudler, Filppula and Franzen absolutely hated Babcock's guts. Filppula wouldn't even talk contract with Holland. Franzen despised coming to work.
Part of the reason I was unfairly harsh on Franzen was because I felt he quit on his team. I didn't hear about the depths of his concussion issues.
But I did hear from people close to the team who said Franzen would never play a game for the Wings while Babcock was coach.
While I understood that, I didn't respect it, because I felt it was unfair to his teammates.

I know about Filppula and Babcock not being a great fit. I was sad to see Flip go as him staying could have mean't another cup or two, as Filppula was a great fit as a 2nd line center or 3rd line if Z played center to spread depth. Filppula in his prime was a really solid middle six asset in my opinion.

At the same time I don't take posters too seriously regarding "reports" or "rumors". I take solid sources. Now, if I were in Detroit and part of a group of people who in some ways were closer to the team, I would possibly have a different view on some things, but only speculation and no point of going into that.
 

ricky0034

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No doubt they've heard scuttlebutt, but they aren't going to leak anything until it's got the Wings stamp of approval to distribute. This will enrage some and the Super Friends will continue to not give a flyin' goose what Johnny Blogger has to say and maintain their good relations with the team.

Yzerman also just plain runs a tighter ship with this stuff in general than Holland did

just something people will have to get used to
 

SirKillalot

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I think Jeff is trying to make an impact and I give him enough credit not to assume the general manager has to make coaching decisions for him. If I thought that, I would want a new coach even more because the ownership needs to trust the decisions of the GM and the GM needs to be able to trust the head coach in turn to do his job.

I agree on that each people in every position needs to trust each people in every position.
But, the way I see it is that for me it seems that Yzerman and Blashill have agreed upon something in regards to how there were going to play and about this player needs to learn this and that player needs to learn that. Otherwise I don't see how Yzerman has not officially decided to go on from Blashill.

And this is also why I think Blashill have been shuffling lines like a deck of cards all season. For players to learn different things to learn, and for the team to play with limits and not end too high in the standings.
Any winning team doesn't change lines like crazy. It's purposely done for different reasons.
And of course they can't officially say that in real life to not get bad fallout from the league.

Blashill is a soldier at this point in time, and that is why he gets great review from the hockey people. He's being professional and understand the situation. He could have coached however he wanted, we could end up higher, but middle of nowhere, get a worse pick, get a rift between and Yzerman and then get fired and achieve nothing long-term.
He knows he will be given all the freedom either later on with Detroit or elsewhere.
 

DetroitRed

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I agree on that each people in every position needs to trust each people in every position.
But, the way I see it is that for me it seems that Yzerman and Blashill have agreed upon something in regards to how there were going to play and about this player needs to learn this and that player needs to learn that. Otherwise I don't see how Yzerman has not officially decided to go on from Blashill.

And this is also why I think Blashill have been shuffling lines like a deck of cards all season. For players to learn different things to learn, and for the team to play with limits and not end too high in the standings.
Any winning team doesn't change lines like crazy. It's purposely done for different reasons.
And of course they can't officially say that in real life to not get bad fallout from the league.

Blashill is a soldier at this point in time, and that is why he gets great review from the hockey people. He's being professional and understand the situation. He could have coached however he wanted, we could end up higher, but middle of nowhere, get a worse pick, get a rift between and Yzerman and then get fired and achieve nothing long-term.
He knows he will be given all the freedom either later on with Detroit or elsewhere.
I think we can prove through logic that Steve is not calling the shots for Blashill. Here's why:

1.) If Steve didn't let Blashill coach for himself, then how would Steve know whether Blashill was doing a good job or a bad job? Furthermore, how can YOU say Blashill is a good coach or a bad coach if you think Steve is doing the coaching for him? You wouldn't be able to.

2.) If Steve was doing the coaching for Blashill, then he ought to save the organization some money by firing Blashill and just do both jobs himself.

Therefore, I just think it's wildly unlikely.

To me, success for Blashill under the conditions of a rebuild are not necessarily based on wins because it will be very hard for him to have a winning record in his predicament. However, Blashill needed to be able to point to players and say more than this guy is on track or that guy did reach at least where we thought we could minimally get him to. Almost every coach you can hire can get guys to stay on track. Blashill needed some of those big project prospects and problem child types to become major successes for him. And he needed to accomplish that specifically because we're in a rebuild and we need a coach who can help the rebuild along. Further, a guy like Larkin who came into the league a stud...fast-forward a few years to 2020-21 and his game is suffering in a year when his passion to perform should be renewed because he just became captain of the storied Detroit Red Wings, his hometown team. So, I know Zadina for example, is on track. To me, just on track, which is about the best Jeff can say over his career as coach, doesn't show me that Blashill is a great coach or that we can't improve over him as coach, nor that we shouldn't try to. That's just how I feel.
 
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StargateSG1

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People pretending that Jeff Blashill will do better with the better roster are funny.
He had a great rosters in both 2017 and 2018 IIHF Worlds and got blown out by Sweden in the Semifinal 6-0 in 18 and lost in Quarterfinal in 17 to Finns .
"Winning at every level" charade apparently doesn't include NHL and the Worlds.
He wasn't even considered for this year's HC job.
 

MBH

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Well, the way I see it is that Holland got the choice of being fired or mutually decide to end it, or be promoted. And not because he was doing a bad job, he was actually finally learning to operate within the salary cap era, that took him a bit.

But, it was more so that people in charge wanted to hire Yzerman as it has been "in the works" for many years, and an overall long term plan was that he did get the request of becoming the GM when Holland leaves. Yzerman was available, Holland had been here for many years and everyone could see that the Red Wings would have to go through a rebuild at some point within the salary cap era. And reason is that one couldn't attract players anymore in the same degree as Red Wings were not a power house anymore, were not a team with unlimited cap, so those player had options to get long term high quality deals elsewhere even though those teams were not necessarily better.



I know about Filppula and Babcock not being a great fit. I was sad to see Flip go as him staying could have mean't another cup or two, as Filppula was a great fit as a 2nd line center or 3rd line if Z played center to spread depth. Filppula in his prime was a really solid middle six asset in my opinion.

At the same time I don't take posters too seriously regarding "reports" or "rumors". I take solid sources. Now, if I were in Detroit and part of a group of people who in some ways were closer to the team, I would possibly have a different view on some things, but only speculation and no point of going into that.

I'm so far away from a Holland slappy, it's funny.
But I felt sorry for Ken Holland.
I felt ashamed of Ilitch.
For sitting there, with the game's best GM from 98-09... a guy with 3 cups to his name...
While Ilitch is acting like the franchise is celebrating the acquisition of the league's best general manager in Yzerman.

Anyway, it was an embarrassing scene from the Red Wings front office, and nobody in Detroit media had the guts to call it ou for what it was.
I don't think Holland quite understood what the f*** was happening until that day, to be honest.

And then Holland got the f*** out of dodge immediately.

Anyway, I don't blame you for not believing posters who say "My friend is close to the team and he says this."

I take all of it with a grain of salt. I have two friends close to the team, and I take their stuff with a grain of salt - because these guys have their own ideas, and when they've had a few drinks, it seems like their mixing their own ideas with what their source is telling them.
And their sources only have a piece - their piece - of the puzzle.

But sometimes, general narratives are too obvious to miss.
 

MBH

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I don't know anyone can look at the season Larkin just had..
Can look at Larkin's on-ice and off-ice demeanor... and think Blashill is doing a good job developing our young stars.
Who else was happy Larkin's season ended just out of mercy?
 

lilidk

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Because we still don't know if Blashill coming next season I believe it is up to Blashill if he wants to stay or go. End of the season showed ,he could win some games even without core players. Blashill is not a bad coach, but it whoud be nice to see someone else , it's been a while.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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You like apologist media, just like you like like apologist posters.
You attack anyone who posts anything attacking the status quo, or who criticizes anything about this organization.

We're sitting here in Blashill's 5th straight year out of the playoffs.
Accomplished NHL coaches all over the league have been fired for less, and we've still got the same cast and crew making excuses for Blashill.

So of course you're going to rip on the Toronto press for destroying Babcock.

You spent years shitting on people who told that Babcock was despised by his players.

And since our cowardly Detroit media wouldn't touch those issues - they basically still pretend it didn't happen - it gives people who hate the uncomfortable truth the cover to pretend everything is just great.

The same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Babcock a pass for being a douchebag, is the same meek Detroit hockey press that gave Holland a pass as he drove the franchise into the ground, that allowed Ilitch to PRETEND Holland was "promoted", that will give Yzerman a pass for keeping Blashill around.

They have an aversion to truth.
They're basically just a mouthpiece for DRW marketing.

And while it's only f***ing hockey, truth still matters to some degree, doesn't it?

No, I'm not ripping on Toronto for bashing Babcock. He f***ing deserved to get crapped on. He's an awful human being. But Toronto's media didn't run him out of that job. Him not being a good coach and not progressing the team did. I don't see how you read what I posted as running down the Toronto media. I just said that it wasn't because Toronto's reporters wrote bad stories about him that he got fired. He got fired because the team was underperforming in a massive way after two consecutive disappointing playoff runs. The playoff runs and the 9-10-4 record to that point were chum... and then the sharks tore him apart after he was out of the seat. It is more the national media and now all of the prior players coming out that has destroyed Babcock and his legacy... and those were inspired by him being so bad that Dubas, Shanahan, and others clipped him from the job.

I'm saying that the Detroit media didn't take to running stories shitting on Babcock the asshole because until around 2012... the Wings were still a damn good hockey team and in 2012, the guys who would come out to the media were guys like Commodore who everyone knew had a hard-on for hating Babcock. Even Franzen if he did come out and say something was continuously viewed as a floater and a guy who was much "weaker" in presence and stature than fans thought a guy of his power and size should be. Zetterberg and Lidstrom and crew were all professionals about it which meant they kept the stuff like this in-house and tried to deal with it that way. That's why the stories didn't come out in Detroit as they were happening.

And I spent years railing against saying Babcock was despised by his players? The f***? I don't remember that. I may have said that his reputation for that was overblown in like 2013 because at that point the only credible reports that had come out from anyone were from guys like Mike Commodore. That would be like trusting Bobby the Brain Heenan on WWF TV in 1988 that Hulk Hogan was a braying jackass who buried everyone. It was absolutely true. However, when the source you have is a guy who made it his party line to shit on the guy, it doesn't really resonate. I mean, Babcock was undoubtedly the same piece of shit in Anaheim that he was in Detroit, right? That's why Commodore carried the burning torch of hatred for him. If he was a prick to the Red Wings, it stands to reason that he was an asshole to the Ducks as well. But again, nobody said a word in any kind of media. Not just the Superfriends wanting to protect the Winged Wheel, but the southern California market and the team that was literally owned by Disney who still had a little bit of an expansion "wow" to them even in the early 2000s.

It's like I'm banging my head into a brick wall on Blashill. Fire Blashill or not. It doesn't f***ing matter. The Wings have a god awful roster and have for the past five years. Blashill probably got a reprieve from the Wings bringing Yzerman back into the fold where Yzerman wanted to see what Blashill did with his own eyes. If Holland didn't leave, Blashill probably does get fired. Firing Blashill after 19-20 would have surely satiated the hate boner. It would have been a pound of flesh that would have maybe sated the wolves (fans of your ilk) for a couple months. Then, you'd have another coach come in and the results would have been the same because the whole point of them losing right now is that they have about 5 currently legitimate NHL players on the roster, another 3 or 4 guys who used to be legitimate but who were completely washed, and the remainder of the roster is guys who are either never will bes or are rookies breaking in on a woefully undertalented team running a 1-2-2.

All I ever post about Blashill is that he's irrelevant in all of this. Fire him, dismember him, slaughter him and his entire bloodline, do whatever the f*** you want... the Red Wings would still be out of the playoffs for the past five years. They should fire Blashill because they're showing that they view who coaches this team as being completely irrelevant to anything.

You want the truth? The truth is that the Red Wings haven't had a roster that could win a damn thing since 2013 and even then, it was only just able to scrape and claw to survive. They've had 7 years of being less talented than damn near every other team they played and that falls on Ken Holland and the front office getting high on their own supply after landing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the late 90s. They landed about 6 good NHL players from 2000-2014 in the NHL draft. The Red Wings were the NHL's version of the Ottoman or Roman Empire. Massively powerful and dominating in their day until they became decrepit and lazy and fell completely apart.

Saying that retaining Blashill or ejecting him into the Sun to replace him with Lane Lambert or whoever is an irrelevant move to fix what's actually wrong with the team isn't making excuses for him. It's saying that the team is so damn bad it doesn't matter who is captaining the ship, it's still gonna run headlong into the iceberg and sink.
 

MBH

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No, I'm not ripping on Toronto for bashing Babcock. He f***ing deserved to get crapped on. He's an awful human being. But Toronto's media didn't run him out of that job. Him not being a good coach and not progressing the team did. I don't see how you read what I posted as running down the Toronto media. I just said that it wasn't because Toronto's reporters wrote bad stories about him that he got fired. He got fired because the team was underperforming in a massive way after two consecutive disappointing playoff runs. The playoff runs and the 9-10-4 record to that point were chum... and then the sharks tore him apart after he was out of the seat. It is more the national media and now all of the prior players coming out that has destroyed Babcock and his legacy... and those were inspired by him being so bad that Dubas, Shanahan, and others clipped him from the job.

I'm saying that the Detroit media didn't take to running stories shitting on Babcock the asshole because until around 2012... the Wings were still a damn good hockey team and in 2012, the guys who would come out to the media were guys like Commodore who everyone knew had a hard-on for hating Babcock. Even Franzen if he did come out and say something was continuously viewed as a floater and a guy who was much "weaker" in presence and stature than fans thought a guy of his power and size should be. Zetterberg and Lidstrom and crew were all professionals about it which meant they kept the stuff like this in-house and tried to deal with it that way. That's why the stories didn't come out in Detroit as they were happening.

And I spent years railing against saying Babcock was despised by his players? The f***? I don't remember that. I may have said that his reputation for that was overblown in like 2013 because at that point the only credible reports that had come out from anyone were from guys like Mike Commodore. That would be like trusting Bobby the Brain Heenan on WWF TV in 1988 that Hulk Hogan was a braying jackass who buried everyone. It was absolutely true. However, when the source you have is a guy who made it his party line to shit on the guy, it doesn't really resonate. I mean, Babcock was undoubtedly the same piece of shit in Anaheim that he was in Detroit, right? That's why Commodore carried the burning torch of hatred for him. If he was a prick to the Red Wings, it stands to reason that he was an asshole to the Ducks as well. But again, nobody said a word in any kind of media. Not just the Superfriends wanting to protect the Winged Wheel, but the southern California market and the team that was literally owned by Disney who still had a little bit of an expansion "wow" to them even in the early 2000s.

It's like I'm banging my head into a brick wall on Blashill. Fire Blashill or not. It doesn't f***ing matter. The Wings have a god awful roster and have for the past five years. Blashill probably got a reprieve from the Wings bringing Yzerman back into the fold where Yzerman wanted to see what Blashill did with his own eyes. If Holland didn't leave, Blashill probably does get fired. Firing Blashill after 19-20 would have surely satiated the hate boner. It would have been a pound of flesh that would have maybe sated the wolves (fans of your ilk) for a couple months. Then, you'd have another coach come in and the results would have been the same because the whole point of them losing right now is that they have about 5 currently legitimate NHL players on the roster, another 3 or 4 guys who used to be legitimate but who were completely washed, and the remainder of the roster is guys who are either never will bes or are rookies breaking in on a woefully undertalented team running a 1-2-2.

All I ever post about Blashill is that he's irrelevant in all of this. Fire him, dismember him, slaughter him and his entire bloodline, do whatever the f*** you want... the Red Wings would still be out of the playoffs for the past five years. They should fire Blashill because they're showing that they view who coaches this team as being completely irrelevant to anything.

You want the truth? The truth is that the Red Wings haven't had a roster that could win a damn thing since 2013 and even then, it was only just able to scrape and claw to survive. They've had 7 years of being less talented than damn near every other team they played and that falls on Ken Holland and the front office getting high on their own supply after landing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the late 90s. They landed about 6 good NHL players from 2000-2014 in the NHL draft. The Red Wings were the NHL's version of the Ottoman or Roman Empire. Massively powerful and dominating in their day until they became decrepit and lazy and fell completely apart.

Saying that retaining Blashill or ejecting him into the Sun to replace him with Lane Lambert or whoever is an irrelevant move to fix what's actually wrong with the team isn't making excuses for him. It's saying that the team is so damn bad it doesn't matter who is captaining the ship, it's still gonna run headlong into the iceberg and sink.


Of course Babcock's douchebaggery led to his firing.
Underperforming for a quarter of the season wouldn't have been enough. Not to fire the guy who'd turned a joke team into a playoff team in one season.

You don't hire Lane Lambert or whatever coach so that you get 5 or 6 more points in the regular season - though that's probably likely.
You hire your new coach so that Dylan Larkin doesn't sound utterly f***ing demoralized and broken willed by the end of the season.
So that Filip Zadina looks like a guy you drafted sixth overall.
So that it's obvious you're building towards something better.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Jul 6, 2012
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Of course Babcock's douchebaggery led to his firing.
Underperforming for a quarter of the season wouldn't have been enough. Not to fire the guy who'd turned a joke team into a playoff team in one season.

You don't hire Lane Lambert or whatever coach so that you get 5 or 6 more points in the regular season - though that's probably likely.
You hire your new coach so that Dylan Larkin doesn't sound utterly f***ing demoralized and broken willed by the end of the season.
So that Filip Zadina looks like a guy you drafted sixth overall.
So that it's obvious you're building towards something better.

Underperforming for two consecutive playoff runs where you get drummed out in the first round and then starting a season with essentially that same President's Trophy roster and puttering through two bad months does it. When you are winning, things like this get swept under the rug. See literally any college team or pro team that has had a huge black mark on their history. Things didn't start swirling around negative until the bloom was off the rose. For Toronto to see two years of regular season dominance followed by two unceremonious dumpings by Boston and the "tie going to the veteran" far too often in terms of playing Matt Hunwick and Roman Polak while the team is starting to sleepwalk through a season? It's not one year of underperformance is what I'm saying. Babcock had the first year after being awful and getting Matthews where Toronto lost in the first round, but to the Capitals in a series with 5 OT games and they looked like they were on the verge of being back. Then they had two years of being on fire in the regular season and then Boston just dumping them in 2018 with the three goal lead lost in Game 7 and then blowing a 3-2 series lead the next year to lose in 7 to Boston as well.

Also, I mean, Boston dealt away two legit 1Cs for this exact reason too. They couldn't hack it in the playoffs and the media was swarming around. Joe Thornton had a playoff run or two where he didn't score and the Bruins were struggling in that season to that point, so they made the decision to move on from him. Tyler Seguin had a really bad playoff run and was just extended to big money for a 21 year old. So Boston used his partying and how dealing him would resolve their locker room issues to deal a 1C away.

What if the Bruins hadn’t traded Joe Thornton?
Boston Bruins: Tyler Seguin trade is still a head-scratcher
 

Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,468
8,333
That's a mistake, cut ties with anything Kenny had a hand in, everywhere in the org.

Kenny doesn’t factor here. This is Yzerman’s guy at this point.

Blashill survived two seasons with Yzerman running the org. Even if you don’t believe that Yzerman rubber stamped the first extension before coming to Detroit, surviving two seasons is enough to indicate that Yzerman was comfortable with him and the job he was doing. Even if we aren’t entirely satisfied by it.
 

StargateSG1

Registered User
Nov 26, 2016
1,787
654
Kenny doesn’t factor here. This is Yzerman’s guy at this point.

Blashill survived two seasons with Yzerman running the org. Even if you don’t believe that Yzerman rubber stamped the first extension before coming to Detroit, surviving two seasons is enough to indicate that Yzerman was comfortable with him and the job he was doing. Even if we aren’t entirely satisfied by it.
Sure.... 2 years for tanking purposes with incompetent coach... If he resigns him, that means 1-2 more years of tanking.
 
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