Proposal: Deal around Bobby Ryan and RNH?

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Oilers don't need wingers, Sens don't need centers. Not a good fit for anyone here.

Pageau is a fantastic 3rd line center, Kelly is (I think) still an adequate 4th line center. RNH is no better or worse than Turris and Brassard, they're all pretty equivalent in the depth charts as low end 1Cs with good but not great offensive and defensive abilities.

Ottawa will give Ryan and Brassard the chance to have some chemistry, instead of giving up on Ryan after three solid (but underwhelming, in relation to the contract) years, especially since they have to add something here.

I think Turris and RNH are rather good defensively

 

[Riptide]

Figured Yakupov doesn't factor into the future and Pulj might not be ready for the NHL this year

Lucic-McDavid-Eberle
Ryan-Leon-Pulj

Pretty talented and mostly big top 6 but I get where most of the responses are coming from in this thread.

I think you'll see Edmonton do something more along the lines of how PIT structured things in the playoffs and really spread out the talent, while using bottom/middle 6 guys as a 3rd wheel to round out the scoring lines. How successful this will be is going to be dependent on how well different guys fit/mesh with their linemates. But I do think that this will be the route EDM takes.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think you'll see Edmonton do something more along the lines of how PIT structured things in the playoffs and really spread out the talent, while using bottom/middle 6 guys as a 3rd wheel to round out the scoring lines. How successful this will be is going to be dependent on how well different guys fit/mesh with their linemates. But I do think that this will be the route EDM takes.

Yeah, Maroon and Kassian could represent the utility/muscle on the line or create space by parking in front of the net.

I don't claim to be a trade genius, this was a thought that literally crossed my mind and figured I'd get some input here.

Rationale was Turris would be better off as a 2C and RNH is an expensive luxury for Edmonton. Bobby Ryan would at least represent a veteran top 6 winger with some decent size but given the chatter in the thread, maybe Ryan would be considered the expensive luxury.

I will say this, the discussion in the thread is better then the typical "lol no" - at least people are providing their thoughts on why such a deal doesn't work which is actually enjoyable discussion even if my trade premise didn't exactly go over well.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Figured Yakupov doesn't factor into the future and Pulj might not be ready for the NHL this year

Lucic-McDavid-Eberle
Ryan-Leon-Pulj

Pretty talented and mostly big top 6 but I get where most of the responses are coming from in this thread.

Lucic-Mcdavid-Eberle
Draisaitl-RNH-Pulj/yak

Is likely what we'll see with Drais potentially playing RW and Pouliot moving up if Yak/Pulj doesn't cut it.

 

[Fourier]

Yeah, Maroon and Kassian could represent the utility/muscle on the line or create space by parking in front of the net.

I don't claim to be a trade genius, this was a thought that literally crossed my mind and figured I'd get some input here.

Rationale was Turris would be better off as a 2C and RNH is an expensive luxury for Edmonton. Bobby Ryan would at least represent a veteran top 6 winger with some decent size but given the chatter in the thread, maybe Ryan would be considered the expensive luxury.

I will say this, the discussion in the thread is better then the typical "lol no" - at least people are providing their thoughts on why such a deal doesn't work which is actually enjoyable discussion even if my trade premise didn't exactly go over well.

I think there is no common opinion on whether or not RNH is an expendable luxury but as others have stated I would bet that there is near 100% agreement that if he is traded it should be for a defenseman that can play in the top 4 right away. The last thing I would expect would be to see him traded for a high priced winger.

The Oilers wing depth is:

LW: Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, Hendricks, Khaira, Caggiula, Pakarinen, Benson
RW: Eberle, Puljujarvi, Yakupov, Kassian, Slepyshev, Russell

Obviously losing Hall reduces the high end of this group, but adding Lucic, Puljujarvi, Caggiula and Benson this year means more overall depth on the wings. In that group you probably have 12 wingers that could play somewhere on the NHL roster without looking out of place.

Having both RNH and Draisiatl allows the Oilers a great deal of flexibility as well as protection in case of injuries. I suspect that Draisaitl will see time on the RW, at least until Puljujarvia finds his sea legs.

 

[kasper11]

As an impartial observer, that seems friggin terrible for Edmonton.

Ryan makes more money. He is 6 years older and signed until he is 35. Decline is highly likely. He's basically a 20-25 goal winger making top-line money.

Hopkins had an off-year last year dealing with injuries, but has scored at a pretty identical rate to Ryan the past 3 years. He is also a center, a more valuable position. Plus, at 23, he can be expected to, at a minimum, maintain his current production if not show a bit of improvement. His contract ends at age 28, so there isn't much of a concern with the length.

Yes, Hopkins is a bit overpaid. But, he is likely to outproduce Ryan throughout the life of his contract (given their relative ages) for less money.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah, Maroon and Kassian could represent the utility/muscle on the line or create space by parking in front of the net.

Rationale was Turris would be better off as a 2C and RNH is an expensive luxury for Edmonton. Bobby Ryan would at least represent a veteran top 6 winger with some decent size but given the chatter in the thread, maybe Ryan would be considered the expensive luxury.

I think if you are looking for a winger and want to move a center, the first team that comes to mind is Columbus. Not sure who they'd actually move, but that is a team with a very legitimate need for an offensive center.

Outside of them, I'm honestly not too sure who really needs a center to the point where they'd give up what you'd realistically need to move RNH. Sure he's an upgrade in a lot of places, but how much of an upgrade is likely pretty debatable.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Yeah, Maroon and Kassian could represent the utility/muscle on the line or create space by parking in front of the net.

I don't claim to be a trade genius, this was a thought that literally crossed my mind and figured I'd get some input here.

Rationale was Turris would be better off as a 2C and RNH is an expensive luxury for Edmonton. Bobby Ryan would at least represent a veteran top 6 winger with some decent size but given the chatter in the thread, maybe Ryan would be considered the expensive luxury.

I will say this, the discussion in the thread is better then the typical "lol no" - at least people are providing their thoughts on why such a deal doesn't work which is actually enjoyable discussion even if my trade premise didn't exactly go over well.

I think if Edmonton wanted to do a 7 million dollar experiment (with respect to their cap) they'd see if they could convince Rick Nash to accept them as a destination.

 

[oilerbear]

RNH isnt being moved for a player that isn't a puck moving RHD

Puck moving D?
Babcock made it clear that the responsibility of Dmen can be the same right or left side.

Since the #10-14 forwards generate the same EVG as #2-6 Dmen.
and
top 300 EVG scorers 93.8% of the goals come from the Forwards.

you kind of want the forwards to have the puck.

In the new fast NHL.
Dmen skating up the puck allow defence to set -up for stopping Zone entry and HSCA entry.

the last thing you want is a dman skating to the perimeter not getting tto the HSCA.

So you want Dmen that read the play as fast as possible and make Transition passes to the forwards when ever possible.

you want a top end EVA d on each pair.
you want as many HSCA d in your top 4.

our best EVA d
Klefbom top 30
Larsson top 40
Sekera top 50 versu 2nd comp or lower.

our top 60 HSCA D
Larsson top 10
Davidson top 30
Klefbom top 60

Davidson - Larsson
Klefbom - Fayne
Sekera - XXX

with Dmen contributing almost zero value to EVG scoring. you do not want them abandoning HSCA Defence for inefficient Offence.
Dmen like BArrie; Faulk; Giordano who have awful HSCA results.
To high EVGA to be wild card competitive.

Does not allow a line of Hall- Duchene- Perry 2.70 EVGF/60 to generate enough even offence to maintain a chance at a wild card spot.

 

[Riptide]

I think there is no common opinion on whether or not RNH is an expendable luxury but as others have stated I would bet that there is near 100% agreement that if he is traded it should be for a defenseman that can play in the top 4 right away. The last thing I would expect would be to see him traded for a high priced winger.

The Oilers wing depth is:

LW: Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, Hendricks, Khaira, Caggiula, Pakarinen, Benson
RW: Eberle, Puljujarvi, Yakupov, Kassian, Slepyshev, Russell

Obviously losing Hall reduces the high end of this group, but adding Lucic, Puljujarvi, Caggiula and Benson this year means more overall depth on the wings. In that group you probably have 12 wingers that could play somewhere on the NHL roster without looking out of place.

Having both RNH and Draisiatl allows the Oilers a great deal of flexibility as well as protection in case of injuries. I suspect that Draisaitl will see time on the RW, at least until Puljujarvia finds his sea legs.

No offense... but there's a pretty big difference in some of those guys. At least Pakarinen has played a few NHL games... but most of them would be huge question marks - and to an extent that includes Puljujarvi.

 

[Nordic*]

From a Senator standpoint, we have to add. Perhaps our 1st 2017.

 

[Clamshells]

I think Turris and RNH are rather good defensively

Yes, of course. They are strong two-way players, but they're not players who come to mind when you think of when you talk about players who excel defensively. A clear gap below players like Bergeon, Toews, Kopitar, etc. Wasn't a knock on them at all.

 

[34]

Bobby Ryan is better than RNH.

Thread/

 

[PuckG]

Bobby Ryan is better than RNH.

Thread/

And yet not a single person thinks it's a good deal for Edmonton.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Is there a deal to be made with these 2 as the central pieces of a deal?

Oilers might be interested in adding a new winger that can contribute in the top 6 and RNH-Turris-Brassard would represent a very talented and deep top 3 centres. Maybe even Yakupov could be worked into the deal.

Thoughts?

Oilers need rnh to shelter Leon and McJesus. They might add another center for more shelter

 

[Fourier]

No offense... but there's a pretty big difference in some of those guys. At least Pakarinen has played a few NHL games... but most of them would be huge question marks - and to an extent that includes Puljujarvi.

This is list of the Oilers depth now and going forward. The twelve that I think could play on the roster are: Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, Hendricks, Khaira, Caggiula, Pakarinen, Eberle, Puljujarvi, Yakupov, Kassian, Slepyshev


These guys are not all going to be expected to play in the top 6. The three that are probably the biggest question marks are Khaira, Caggiula and Slepyshev. But Khaira was very good last year in all roles he was asked to play. Of course right now you would expect him to be a 4th line winger but he is actually skilled enough to play higher in the line-up in a pinch. Frankly I don't see a significant difference between him and Pakarinen in that regard at this time but I would say that Khaira's upside is higher. Unless he regresses unexpectedly I would expect him to play a fair bit this year and he might actually earn a spot out of camp.

Slepyshev looked ready last year after camp but struggled when things heated up. He was actually not so bad in a bottom six role but I think the Oilers want to develop him the right way. That said as an injury call up he is probably not going to hurt you. He has very good size, plays a defensively sound game and has a terrific shot. He could play a more offensive role on the third line if needed but is probably more likely to be a 4th line call-up. (he is listed in many places as being 187lbs but when he came over from Russia he was actually up to about 220lbs so the is much bigger than the listings have him at. Seehttp://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=117748 )

My expectations of Caggiula are probably a little optimistic. BUt he plays a style of game that translates quite well and he can play down the roster so its not like he needs a key role

 

[ManofSteel55]

Puck moving D?
Babcock made it clear that the responsibility of Dmen can be the same right or left side.

Since the #10-14 forwards generate the same EVG as #2-6 Dmen.
and
top 300 EVG scorers 93.8% of the goals come from the Forwards.

you kind of want the forwards to have the puck.

In the new fast NHL.
Dmen skating up the puck allow defence to set -up for stopping Zone entry and HSCA entry.

the last thing you want is a dman skating to the perimeter not getting tto the HSCA.

So you want Dmen that read the play as fast as possible and make Transition passes to the forwards when ever possible.

you want a top end EVA d on each pair.
you want as many HSCA d in your top 4.

our best EVA d
Klefbom top 30
Larsson top 40
Sekera top 50 versu 2nd comp or lower.

our top 60 HSCA D
Larsson top 10
Davidson top 30
Klefbom top 60

Davidson - Larsson
Klefbom - Fayne
Sekera - XXX

with Dmen contributing almost zero value to EVG scoring. you do not want them abandoning HSCA Defence for inefficient Offence.
Dmen like BArrie; Faulk; Giordano who have awful HSCA results.
To high EVGA to be wild card competitive.

Does not allow a line of Hall- Duchene- Perry 2.70 EVGF/60 to generate enough even offence to maintain a chance at a wild card spot.

God forbid if we had Barrie, Faulk, or Giordano instead of Mark freaking Fayne.

You've found great advanced stats for our garbage defensemen for years. Guess what - we've been crap for 10 years now, based primarily around having an awful defense. Show all the advanced stats you want, the fact remains that defensemen who can move the puck is still a need for this team, unless Larsson or Klefbom changes their game to more of an offense based game. And I don't want them to, for the record, but bringing in a top tier RH puck mover would give us a respectable defense core for the first time since we traded Pronger and lost Spacek in the same summer.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Oilers need rnh to shelter Leon and McJesus. They might add another center for more shelter

I don't know if McLellan shelters McDavid much this year. If McDavid is as good as we know he is, he doesn't need to be sheltered, and him playing the tough minutes would give us 3 legitimate scoring lines rather than having to use Nugent-Hopkins on a shut down line.

 

[Sens Rule]

Ottawa would ask for Ceci plus from Ottawa and have no interest in Ryan for Nugent-Hopkins. Ottawa would not want to trade Ceci and weaken their defence for a 3rd 1b or 2a quality centre because they already have 2 of them.

There is no trade to be had.

Also if I am the Oilers I keep Nugent-Hopkins. You either have a loaded top 6 using him or 3 strong lines if all the centres play centre. I think they shouldn't move Nugent-Hopkins at all. That could be their strength. And with all 3 of McDavid, Draisati and Nugent-Hopkins at centre.. You will have a killer 3rd line and often have positive match ups each game. Plus you can have a sheltered cheap 4th line playing minimal minutes with the top 3 lines eating over 50++ minutes a game easily.

 

[Del Preston]

Bobby Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

Oilers would only move RNH for a defenseman, I think.

 

[edguy]

Pass from Ottawa. We have Turris/Brassard in the top 6 C role already. RNH doesnt beat out either of them.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Puck moving D?
Babcock made it clear that the responsibility of Dmen can be the same right or left side.

Since the #10-14 forwards generate the same EVG as #2-6 Dmen.
and
top 300 EVG scorers 93.8% of the goals come from the Forwards.

you kind of want the forwards to have the puck.

In the new fast NHL.
Dmen skating up the puck allow defence to set -up for stopping Zone entry and HSCA entry.

the last thing you want is a dman skating to the perimeter not getting tto the HSCA.

So you want Dmen that read the play as fast as possible and make Transition passes to the forwards when ever possible.

you want a top end EVA d on each pair.
you want as many HSCA d in your top 4.

our best EVA d
Klefbom top 30
Larsson top 40
Sekera top 50 versu 2nd comp or lower.

our top 60 HSCA D
Larsson top 10
Davidson top 30
Klefbom top 60

Davidson - Larsson
Klefbom - Fayne
Sekera - XXX

with Dmen contributing almost zero value to EVG scoring. you do not want them abandoning HSCA Defence for inefficient Offence.
Dmen like BArrie; Faulk; Giordano who have awful HSCA results.
To high EVGA to be wild card competitive.

Does not allow a line of Hall- Duchene- Perry 2.70 EVGF/60 to generate enough even offence to maintain a chance at a wild card spot.

I bolded the reason why you need a puck moving RHD

(You dont need a puck moving LHD because you already have good LHD, also your D are more on the stay-at home side than offensive side)

 

[bert]

I don't think either team is interested in this deal.

But, I'd say Ottawa adds.

Yes Ottawa clearly adds haha dont see this as a deal that makes sense for Edmonton. Love it from a sens perspective. Aka not gonna happen.

 

[victor]

Also if I am the Oilers I keep Nugent-Hopkins. You either have a loaded top 6 using him or 3 strong lines if all the centres play centre. I think they shouldn't move Nugent-Hopkins at all. That could be their strength. And with all 3 of McDavid, Draisati and Nugent-Hopkins at centre.. You will have a killer 3rd line and often have positive match ups each game. Plus you can have a sheltered cheap 4th line playing minimal minutes with the top 3 lines eating over 50++ minutes a game easily.

I agree. Doesn't fit to where Ottawa is going.

With the following lineup, you can mix and match players, depending on what is needed. Draisaitl plays both C/RW, so you can swap him in and out for the right wingers if you want to give him more time.

Lucic - McDavid - Yakupov
Pouliot - RNH - Eberle
Maroon - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi

It'll be interesting to see what happens with RNH this year. First season where he's facing 2nd-3rd competition, and likely will have good wingers. Might be a good pick-up in a keeper league.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Sens take this and run.

All things being equal you take the center over the winger. While RNH may not be the better of the two players right now, he'll probably be the better than Ryan within a couple seasons. RNH is younger, cheaper and will be better sooner rather than later. It's an easy pass from Edmonton's perspective.