Player Discussion David Quinn

[NYR]

What I can't understand is how you think that all Quinn has to do is copy Trotz system. If it were that easy, every team would do it. As it is, every team runs systems that are very similar.

So what you're saying is that every team runs the same system but they can't emulate a proven one?
Got it!

You could tell us what system you would like to see run. Better yet, tell us Quinn's systems, so we could compare it to other teams system. I'll wait.

DQ runs a 2-1-2/ 2-3 Zone on D

Do you even know wth I'm talking about?
I'll assume you don't since you asked so go do your homework and then we can continue...I'll wait....

Remember the old commercial...."Not going anywhere for a while?".

I don't have any problem making you wait because I know it annoys you lol.

Besides not only are you snarky but you're dense af.
There are numerous posts/threads answering all your ridiculous questions mean while you still haven't replied with anything of relevance.
Round and round we go lol

 

[The S5]

double post

 

[The S5]

So what you're saying is that every team runs the same system but they can't emulate a proven one?
Got it!



DQ runs a 2-1-2/ 2-3 Zone on D

Do you even know wth I'm talking about?
I'll assume you don't since you asked so go do your homework and then we can continue...I'll wait....



I don't have any problem making you wait because I know it annoys you lol.

Besides not only are you snarky but you're dense af.
There are numerous posts/threads answering all your ridiculous questions mean while you still haven't replied with anything of relevance.
Round and round we go lol

He doesn't run a strict zone in the defensive end. There are man to man coverage and pass offs that occur/should occur all the time.

Now, instead of being snarky, why don't you tell us why Parise was alone on the back door for the goal last night? Was it a system problem. Did Quinn not teach them to pick up their assignment and not puck watch? You see, goals are scored in this league when other teams don't execute whichever systems they run.

A good coach keeps his players accountable and earns the teams respect. A good coach isn't someone like Babcock who tries to intimidate and blames players when they don't execute.

So,which system would you like to see run that would fix all the Ranger problems?

There is an old story that was told by Lou Vairo. He was discussing a speech given by Freddie Shero to a group of Russian coaches in the 1970's. They all wanted to know about the Boston Bruins system for breaking the puck out of the D zone. In true Freddie fashion, his response was, "Bobby Orr".

 

[eco's bones]

Islanders have 4 guys under the age of 25--Barzal, Beauvillier, Dal Colle and Dobson. Dal Colle's a 4th liner and Dobson's only played 6 games. They are a veteran team and anyone who has followed the career of Barry Trotz Head Coach whether it's Nashville, Washington or the Islanders should know that he likes veteran teams. We don't have a veteran team--when we did a couple years back AV was our coach and he was another guy that liked to lean on experience over youth. Lou Lamoriello--Islanders GM--yeah he was with Toronto when all of Matthews, Marner and Nylander came into the league with other guys like Hyman and Brown but that's kind of a blip in his career. All those Devils teams over the years were loaded with vets and his Islander team now and his coach are almost perfect as far as his history.

The Rangers under age 25 guys--Georgiev 23, DeAngelo 24, Fox 21, Hajek 21, Lindgren 21, Buchnevich 24, Kakko 18, Lemieux 23, Chytil 20. Howden 21--we've also seen Andersson and Gettinger both 21. Most nights half our team in under 25. The Rangers have vets but they're also breaking guys into the league an even the likes of DeAngelo, Buchnevich and Lemieux have had to go through growing pains to get where they are and all of them still have room to get better.

The Rangers have beaten some of the best teams this year--Tampa, Nashville, Carolina, Pittsburgh and Washington. We have a lot of young talent and we don't suck. We're inconsistent though and FWIW that happens all the time with young teams. To me coaches like Trotz, Babcock, Quenneville would be wasted on this group. AV would have been wasted. The Rangers found a coach willing to work with and develop young players which is what they should have done. Whether Quinn will still be around when we're ready to contend again is a question but for now he's the guy of guy we need.

 

[True Blue]

I don't have any problem making you wait because I know it annoys you lol.

Besides not only are you snarky but you're dense af.
There are numerous posts/threads answering all your ridiculous questions mean while you still haven't replied with anything of relevance.
Round and round we go lol

Have no fear. You do not annoy me. You amuse me. Chief amusement? Your utter inability to answer questions. Questions that have not come at you from various posters.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

. AV would have been wasted. The Rangers found a coach willing to work with and develop young players which is what they should have done. Whether Quinn will still be around when we're ready to contend again is a question but for now he's the guy of guy we need.

AV cant be wasted by teams. he can only waste teams. Sponsored by the FAVS. f*** AV society

Have no fear. You do not annoy me. You amuse me. Chief amusement? Your utter inability to answer questions. Questions that have not come at you from various posters.

Oh yea...my favorite too...nothing I love more than that

 

[eco's bones]

AV cant be wasted by teams. he can only waste teams. Sponsored by the FAVS. **** AV society



Oh yea...my favorite too...nothing I love more than that

He's always come up short but AV's history is with veteran teams. I don't think some coaches really have the patience for working with more than maybe a couple rookies a year. He's one of them.

 

[NYR]

He doesn't run a strict zone in the defensive end. There are man to man coverage and pass offs that occur/should occur all the time.

Now, instead of being snarky, why don't you tell us why Parise was alone on the back door for the goal last night? Was it a system problem. Did Quinn not teach them to pick up their assignment and not puck watch? You see, goals are scored in this league when other teams don't execute whichever systems they run.

A good coach keeps his players accountable and earns the teams respect. A good coach isn't someone like Babcock who tries to intimidate and blames players when they don't execute.

So,which system would you like to see run that would fix all the Ranger problems?

There is an old story that was told by Lou Vairo. He was discussing a speech given by Freddie Shero to a group of Russian coaches in the 1970's. They all wanted to know about the Boston Bruins system for breaking the puck out of the D zone. In true Freddie fashion, his response was, "Bobby Orr".

Who ever said anything about strict?
It's completely dysfunctional and if you watch how plays develop, it's a zone D none the less.
Also if you look at the PK box, he's basically running the same exact thing and for that very reason and as much as I would like to see him canned, I'll cut Ruff some slack here.
It's DQ's system..100%.

As far as being snarky, maybe you should read your reply to me.
I'd love nothing more than to have a normal hockey convo but I can go either way so maybe consider your tone before pushing for a reply?

As for the Parise goal..Quite honestly, I didn't analyze it but from what I did see, DQ was kept players out on the ice for way longer than he should as usual.
They were exhausted.

While I appreciate the history, you don't need Bobby Orr to defend.

 

[NYR]

Have no fear. You do not annoy me. You amuse me. Chief amusement? Your utter inability to answer questions. Questions that have not come at you from various posters.

Ditto

 

[JHS]

It’s absolutley amazing that people still want to define Quinn as the Islanders just keeping winning hockey games. Trotz was the guy they should have gotten. It made 0 sense to hire Quinn before the season was over and now we will all watch the Islanders be competitive for years to come because of the coaching. Too many people are looking at this debate in such an insular way. The Rangers allowed a cross town rival to get an accomplished NHL coach because they were too quick to hire Quinn. Sometimes it make sure sense to wait and see all available options before making a choice on who to hire. That’s a basic management concept. Why the Rangers chose to ignore that is absurd.

From the X’s and O’s standpoint. My major issue with Quinn’s defensive structure is actually in the neutral zone. His forechecking s system relies on heavy puck pressure down below the tops of the circles. That’s essentially the same system every coach runs at every level. The issue I see isn’t often the F3 sags too low and teams are able to chip the puck off the boards and immediately past all 3 forwards to generate an outlet with speed out of the zone. The issue is with 2 defensemen back and forwards now several feet behind the rush, the attacking forwards are free to do what they they want and the backchecking Rangers can’t really apply adequate back pressure. The defense can’t realistically step up because if they are beat it’s breakawy city and this also explains why the defense backs the zone so far since they aren’t waiting to apply pressure until the forwards have caught up to the rush. I will say that this has improved in recent games, which leads me to believe it is being addressed but, a quarter of the way into the season these things should be a lot tighter!

 

[JHS]

Islanders have 4 guys under the age of 25--Barzal, Beauvillier, Dal Colle and Dobson. Dal Colle's a 4th liner and Dobson's only played 6 games. They are a veteran team and anyone who has followed the career of Barry Trotz Head Coach whether it's Nashville, Washington or the Islanders should know that he likes veteran teams. We don't have a veteran team--when we did a couple years back AV was our coach and he was another guy that liked to lean on experience over youth. Lou Lamoriello--Islanders GM--yeah he was with Toronto when all of Matthews, Marner and Nylander came into the league with other guys like Hyman and Brown but that's kind of a blip in his career. All those Devils teams over the years were loaded with vets and his Islander team now and his coach are almost perfect as far as his history.

The Rangers under age 25 guys--Georgiev 23, DeAngelo 24, Fox 21, Hajek 21, Lindgren 21, Buchnevich 24, Kakko 18, Lemieux 23, Chytil 20. Howden 21--we've also seen Andersson and Gettinger both 21. Most nights half our team in under 25. The Rangers have vets but they're also breaking guys into the league an even the likes of DeAngelo, Buchnevich and Lemieux have had to go through growing pains to get where they are and all of them still have room to get better.

The Rangers have beaten some of the best teams this year--Tampa, Nashville, Carolina, Pittsburgh and Washington. We have a lot of young talent and we don't suck. We're inconsistent though and FWIW that happens all the time with young teams. To me coaches like Trotz, Babcock, Quenneville would be wasted on this group. AV would have been wasted. The Rangers found a coach willing to work with and develop young players which is what they should have done. Whether Quinn will still be around when we're ready to contend again is a question but for now he's the guy of guy we need.

Did you forget that Barry Trotz took an expansion team from absolutely a joke to ultra competitive each year. I don’t think those initial rosters in Nashville were stacked with ready made talent and I’m pretty sure the reason he’s a living legend in Nashville s because of his ability to work well in an organization and develop young talent. Furthermore, why do we care if a coach is “wasted.” If a coach takes the job he knows what he’s up against. The Rangers never even gave Trotz a chance to turn the job down!

 

[NYR]

It’s absolutley amazing that people still want to define Quinn as the Islanders just keeping winning hockey games. Trotz was the guy they should have gotten. It made 0 sense to hire Quinn before the season was over and now we will all watch the Islanders be competitive for years to come because of the coaching. Too many people are looking at this debate in such an insular way. The Rangers allowed a cross town rival to get an accomplished NHL coach because they were too quick to hire Quinn. Sometimes it make sure sense to wait and see all available options before making a choice on who to hire. That’s a basic management concept. Why the Rangers chose to ignore that is absurd.

From the X’s and O’s standpoint. My major issue with Quinn’s defensive structure is actually in the neutral zone. His forechecking s system relies on heavy puck pressure down below the tops of the circles. That’s essentially the same system every coach runs at every level. The issue I see isn’t often the F3 sags too low and teams are able to chip the puck off the boards and immediately past all 3 forwards to generate an outlet with speed out of the zone. The issue is with 2 defensemen back and forwards now several feet behind the rush, the attacking forwards are free to do what they they want and the backchecking Rangers can’t really apply adequate back pressure. The defense can’t realistically step up because if they are beat it’s breakawy city and this also explains why the defense backs the zone so far since they aren’t waiting to apply pressure until the forwards have caught up to the rush. I will say that this has improved in recent games, which leads me to believe it is being addressed but, a quarter of the way into the season these things should be a lot tighter!

Umm.. This and I have nothing more to add at this time lol

 

[haveandare]

Did you forget that Barry Trotz took an expansion team from absolutely a joke to ultra competitive each year. I don’t think those initial rosters in Nashville were stacked with ready made talent and I’m pretty sure the reason he’s a living legend in Nashville s because of his ability to work well in an organization and develop young talent. Furthermore, why do we care if a coach is “wasted.” If a coach takes the job he knows what he’s up against. The Rangers never even gave Trotz a chance to turn the job down!

The initial rosters in Nashville didn't win anything or even come close. They didn't finish over .500 for 5 years and they didn't win a playoff series for 11 years.

Trotz never made them "ultra competitive each year" - 16-17 was the only time they'd ever made it past the second round, and that was two years after he was replaced. With him they won two playoff rounds in 15 years.

The Isles have a solid roster and they're doing well with him. The idea that he'd do as well with our vastly different roster is a big assumption. He has history with young teams but it's not good.

 

[nyr2k2]

The initial rosters in Nashville didn't win anything or even come close. They didn't finish over .500 for 5 years and they didn't win a playoff seasons for 11 years.

Trotz never made them "ultra competitive each year" - 16-17 was the only time they'd ever made it past the second round, and that was two years after he was replaced. With him they won two playoff rounds in 15 years.

The Isles have a solid roster and they're doing well with him. The idea that he'd do as well with our vastly different roster is a big assumption. He has history with young teams but it's not good.

Nice post. Not sure who you're replying to but I can guess.

There's also no guarantee Trotz wanted to come here. I know we all think of the Island as a shit show, but they were pretty certain to be getting their new arena and have some really nice pieces. I can see why it would be attractive. I can also see why a guy like Trotz would not have wanted to come here, if that was the case.

Anyway, I don't know why Trotz is relevant in a thread discussing David Quinn.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I an understand people having game to game gripes with... well, pretty much any coach. Specific line combos; who's in, who's out; etc. Lord knows, I do.

But given the state of the team and the mission he was assigned... are people really that upset with Quinn's performance to date?

By no means am I saying he's the guy to take the Rangers to the promised land (necessarily), but I have no complaints in his work molding a young team to date.

(My favorite example, BTW, is his work with Buch. Speaking as someone who suffers from depression myself – which I sometimes suspect Buch may have, though I have NO proof – his mix of half-humorous frustration plus continued praise/encouragement is an outstanding approach, providing continuous support while simultaneously pushing him forward.)

 

[JHS]

The initial rosters in Nashville didn't win anything or even come close. They didn't finish over .500 for 5 years and they didn't win a playoff series for 11 years.

Trotz never made them "ultra competitive each year" - 16-17 was the only time they'd ever made it past the second round, and that was two years after he was replaced. With him they won two playoff rounds in 15 years.

The Isles have a solid roster and they're doing well with him. The idea that he'd do as well with our vastly different roster is a big assumption. He has history with young teams but it's not good.

Fair- my point is Nashville kept him around because of his ability to work well in an organization that was building. That’s exactly what the Rangers are supposed to be doing now. Furthermore, holding an expansion team’s record in the first few seasons against the coach is not fair.

I’m aware that people want to be loyal to Quinn but let’s not even begin to go down the road of asserting he’s an equal caliber coach to Trotz. That’s just plain fiction.

 

[haveandare]

Fair- my point is Nashville kept him around because of his ability to work well in an organization that was building. That’s exactly what the Rangers are supposed to be doing now. Furthermore, holding an expansion team’s record in the first few seasons against the coach is not fair.

I’m aware that people want to be loyal to Quinn but let’s not even begin to go down the road of asserting he’s an equal caliber coach to Trotz. That’s just plain fiction.

Building an expansion team isn't really the same as rebuilding an existing team with a youth movement. The first few Nashville rosters were devoid of talent, but they weren't made up primarily of young players that had to be moulded to reach their potential.

I'm not holding their record against him, I'm responding to your point that the original Nashville rosters weren't very good by showing that their results also weren't very good. We have a roster that isn't very good and you're saying we should have hired Trotz. Based on his own history with Nashville, which you're touting, this team wouldn't be good either.

Trotz has almost 20 years of NHL experience on Quinn, of course they're not equal coaches today. Trotz's first few NHL seasons were abysmal. Ultimately, his team won two playoff rounds in 15 years. If Quinn ended up coaching this team that long with those results, you'd flip and rightly so.

 

[JHS]

Building an expansion team isn't really the same as rebuilding an existing team with a youth movement. The first few Nashville rosters were devoid of talent, but they weren't made up primarily of young players that had to be moulded to reach their potential.

I'm not holding their record against him, I'm responding to your point that the original Nashville rosters weren't very good by showing that their results also weren't very good. We have a roster that isn't very good and you're saying we should have hired Trotz. Based on his own history with Nashville, which you're touting, this team wouldn't be good either.

Trotz has almost 20 years of NHL experience on Quinn, of course they're not equal coaches today. Trotz's first few NHL seasons were abysmal. Ultimately, his team won two playoff rounds in 15 years. If Quinn ended up coaching this team that long with those results, you'd flip and rightly so.

Ultimately this conversation about Trotz is pointless because he’s currently leading the Islanders and probably will make them perineal contenders. My issue is the organization did not even wait till the season was over before making a hiring decision. Trotz’s departure from Washington was unexpected and the Rangers never gave themselves a chance at the guy. That’s just flat out awful management.

We won’t ever be able to actually quantify how terrible this decision was because it will all be based on what if’s and the Quinn defenders will say he was the guy the Rangers wanted but will continue to not see how absurd their stance is. I want the “best available” based on proven entities. Quinn’s hire was a total gamble.

 

[eco's bones]

I an understand people having game to game gripes with... well, pretty much any coach. Specific line combos; who's in, who's out; etc. Lord knows, I do.

But given the state of the team and the mission he was assigned... are people really that upset with Quinn's performance to date?

By no means am I saying he's the guy to take the Rangers to the promised land (necessarily), but I have no complaints in his work molding a young team to date.

(My favorite example, BTW, is his work with Buch. Speaking as someone who suffers from depression myself – which I sometimes suspect Buch may have, though I have NO proof – his mix of half-humorous frustration plus continued praise/encouragement is an outstanding approach, providing continuous support while simultaneously pushing him forward.)

I would add DeAngelo to your comment on Buch as well. He's given both these players tough love but he's also gotten great improvement out of both. Both Buch and Tony are playing with confidence now and both are much more engaged. Buch is not a perimeter player anymore--he battles for pucks and he takes the play to the net. He's a stiffer player physically and much more responsible without the puck. We're seeing major strides from Chytil this year too. I think the light bulb has gone on for him. Other young players like Kakko, Lemieux, Fox, Lindgren, Hajek stepping right in. FWIW I think Howden has been good lately. I don't think we should overfocus on Andersson's struggles and look at all this as failure--there's more time for him to get it and there's a lot more good happening under this coaching staff than bad. Most all of our younger guys are better this year than last.......and we added in Panarin and Trouba.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Ultimately this conversation about Trotz is pointless because he’s currently leading the Islanders and probably will make them perineal contenders. My issue is the organization did not even wait till the season was over before making a hiring decision. Trotz’s departure from Washington was unexpected and the Rangers never gave themselves a chance at the guy. That’s just flat out awful management.

We won’t ever be able to actually quantify how terrible this decision was because it will all be based on what if’s and the Quinn defenders will say he was the guy the Rangers wanted but will continue to not see how absurd their stance is. I want the “best available” based on proven entities. Quinn’s hire was a total gamble.

If it wasn’t expected that Trotz would be let go, how can you possibly hold it against the Rangers for not waiting for him to be let go when one of their other top candidates took a job elsewhere?

 

[McRanger]

I would add DeAngelo to your comment on Buch as well. He's given both these players tough love but he's also gotten great improvement out of both. Both Buch and Tony are playing with confidence now and both are much more engaged. Buch is not a perimeter player anymore--he battles for pucks and he takes the play to the net. He's a stiffer player physically and much more responsible without the puck. We're seeing major strides from Chytil this year too. I think the light bulb has gone on for him. Other young players like Kakko, Lemieux, Fox, Lindgren, Hajek stepping right in. FWIW I think Howden has been good lately. I don't think we should overfocus on Andersson's struggles and look at all this as failure--there's more time for him to get it and there's a lot more good happening under this coaching staff than bad. Most all of our younger guys are better this year than last.......and we added in Panarin and Trouba.

I see it with Buch but I don't see it with ADA. He's basically the same uber-talented but flawed player he was when he got here. The only difference is that he is playing consistently.

 

[True Blue]

Ultimately this conversation about Trotz is pointless because he’s currently leading the Islanders and probably will make them perineal contenders. My issue is the organization did not even wait till the season was over before making a hiring decision. Trotz’s departure from Washington was unexpected and the Rangers never gave themselves a chance at the guy. That’s just flat out awful management.

You keep on banging down this door. You say convesation about Trots is pointless, but yet keep bringing up his name. Those early Nashville teams were not young at all. And when they were, they were NEVER as young as the Rangers. A Trotz team did not did not get a playoff win until his 6 full year coaching. But wait, there's more. A Trotz team did not get as much as one playoff series win until his 12th year in the league. You keep up bringing his name over and over and over again, but the fact is that his experience in "building" Nashville resulted in waiting 12 years until the team could get a single playoff victory here. Want to sign up for that right now with the Rangers? You should. Because you keep up bringing what a wonderful job he did with Nashville.

You were told time and time again. Gorton did not need to wait until the season was over until he made his hire. He identified his man. At that point it made not a single lick of difference if Trotz became available. Not one.

Gorton identifying his choice to lead the youngest team in the league is far from awful management. It was a calculated decision as to what was best for the franchise. And guess what? It was NOT Trotz.

We won’t ever be able to actually quantify how terrible this decision was because it will all be based on what if’s and the Quinn defenders will say he was the guy the Rangers wanted but will continue to not see how absurd their stance is. I want the “best available” based on proven entities. Quinn’s hire was a total gamble.

That is because very few people see it as an awful decision.

You wanted your golden boy to become the head coach based on what he did with a Nashville team? Then you had better be on board with waiting until 2031 for the Rangers to get their first playoff series victory. How does that sound?

 

[haohmaru]

Gotta give DQ some credit - if you would’ve told me that Mika would be out basically the entire month of November and the Rangers would go 8-4-1, I probably would’ve laughed at you.

 

[haveandare]

Ultimately this conversation about Trotz is pointless because he’s currently leading the Islanders and probably will make them perineal contenders. My issue is the organization did not even wait till the season was over before making a hiring decision. Trotz’s departure from Washington was unexpected and the Rangers never gave themselves a chance at the guy. That’s just flat out awful management.

We won’t ever be able to actually quantify how terrible this decision was because it will all be based on what if’s and the Quinn defenders will say he was the guy the Rangers wanted but will continue to not see how absurd their stance is. I want the “best available” based on proven entities. Quinn’s hire was a total gamble.

I'd bet you he doesn't make them perennial contenders. They're having a great season, we've seen it happen without leading to perennial contender status time and time again from many different teams. Something is clicking over there right now, and good for them, but I wouldn't count on it lasting for years and years by any means.

The organization knew who they wanted whether you think that is absurd or not. They wanted Quinn because they knew they'd be running an extremely young team and he has recent experience with all young rosters. Trotz doesn't have experience with teams that young, his resume isn't a quarter of as great as you're making it out to be, and he would also be a total gamble becuase he's never ever worked with a team like this before.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Gotta give DQ some credit - if you would’ve told me that Mika would be out basically the entire month of November and the Rangers would go 8-4-1, I probably would’ve laughed at you.

Agreed. The team seems to be coming together more and more. Kudos to Quinn.

That said, I hope he can do something about the defensive structure/PK, because without some massive improvements in those areas, the team will be stuck in neutral.