Player Discussion David Quinn

[redwhiteandblue]

first bold

Yea, that's why I mentioned it. Wanted to be fair. Didn't want to represent myself as an expert. But let's not pretend like watching every game is necessary either. I didn't say i never watch.

Howden is a different player. Different size, speed, skills and abilities. It's reasonable to assume they like what he brings more right now and I don't think it's about production or ineffectiveness. What is Howden doing wrong to deserve a demotion and what is lias doing right to deserve the promotion?

What would Lias bring to the role that would make him better overall than Howden?

Why do it after only 14 games? That's barely anytime. These guys need more than a dozen games in any one particular role before moving them for no particular reason. They're going to have good games where you can reinforce good habits and bad games where you can identify what to fix. You take Howden out of that role this early in the season and you deny him the opportunity to go through that in this particular season. Not that I even see him making egregious errors. Same for Lias

It is much smarter to leave both guys where they are for an extended period of time and shake things up after a significant sample. If Lias is promoted by game 40 and excels than why would any of this be a problem? It wouldnt be. Which is why imo people just lack the patience and the correct mindset when it comes to this issue.

As for last year? Lias was a much worse player overall last year. So much so that i can't even pretend like last years games count towards this arbitrary "Howden has had too long compared to Lias" meter. I really liked what lias did in pre-season. I'm on record saying I'd have had no problem with him getting promoted to start the season. But he wasn't so good that I ever thought it was necessary to promote him either.

I wasn't trying to instigate by pointing out how you said you don't watch games as much. I was pointing out credit to your point and proposing to you what I see. So my response before this wasn't meant to be rude or anything. I digress...

I think Lias being 'much worse' is a personal examination. I think he's been better this year for sure. I also dont think last year there was such a gap between him and Howden that made it any sense to favor Howden so. That's your opinion they did, I happen to very much disagree. Even if I were to agree with that the gap was so big, I'd still find it concerning that on a rebuilding roster my coach isn't experimenting with these guys.

Let's take Lias Andersson out of the equation for a second. What has Brett Howden done to deserve such a long leash? Again, I'm in full support of Howden becoming the best player he can for this team and not another, but he has been far from perfect. He's been just an average middle six guy, on his best nights. I'd say hes actually not really progressing and more so plateauing over the last 40 games or so, and being up to over a full season of NHL work, would mean he's not perfect. If it wasn't a rebuilding team he'd be in the AHL or on the 4th line.

So Howden is not perfect. Not to mention he's not being really challenged to get any better because he's spoon fed minutes with no worry of being underwhelming let alone bad. Considering all that, I don't see how you can just wash out last season, regardless of Lias or not. Bring Lias back into the conversation and, like I said before, I'm concerned the coach isn't at least tossing him an extended try out in a larger role.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Sure-
Brady Skjei, gotten progressively worse
Lias Anderson, Even after improving his hockey skating, still stuck on the 4th line and can't make progress
Pavel Buchenevich- Can't take the leap to being a top line forward although admittedly has looked better
The entire defensive structure- Players routinely out of position, can't make outlet passes, team giving up 20 plus shots a period and ranking near the bottom of the league in all possible defensive measures

You also just can't help yourself but take cheap shots can you? I've made far more relevant hockey arguments than practically anyoen participating in this thread. It's just you don't like them.

Can't help myself? You were whining about something happening when it's your fault. What do u want a pat on the head? You also gave me absolutely nothing. THATS what your insight is? That so and so isn't good enough? Arbitrary ice time complaints for Lias? Arbitrary line complaints that don't make sense for buch? A bunch of extremely basic stats and basic complaints about passes with zero context, evidence or definitive links to Quinn? this was analysis that a 25 year plus expert should have? And how are you going to tell me about how you consistently provide in depth analysis as if your posting history isn't there? I don't understand why you thought this post would accomplish what you thought it would

You don't need to be able to provide more but how are you going to talk yourself up and act like this is anything? Half of it likely isn't even an issue let alone the coaches fault yet you presented all of it like lead pipe evidence. Everything here reinforces what I said about how you seem to have enormous deficits in how youthink about the game

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

If you are aware of the definition of group think- it's the promotion of one idea over the other and supported by a mass who actually does not even know what they are talking about. Also, lots of times people are swayed by the desire to be "liked" thus afraid or unable to share something outside of the common held belief. Your attack on me for pointing out an opinion other than the common held belief is the definition of.

Again, Toronto has BETTER talent than the Rangers, a BETTER forward group, a BETTER defense and is in the next stage of a rebuild-- and still can't get it right because lots of their younger players developed in culture where they were not winning games. I'm not sure how that show a lack of understanding of the Toronto organization. A simple google search, which I did before making this claim, reveals that as far back as 2016, Babcock was questioning teh compete level of his players( sond familiar) and some still have not responded. SO the logical question is why-- I'll tell you- because they don't have examples of what it actually takes to rise to the next level because the organization is predominately filled with young guys at similar stages of their career and the coach( who in theri case) is the only guy who actually knows what it takes to win the Stanley Cup and is appropriately challenging them. Now let's take that into the Rangers. This team is filled with similair stage players who equally have not clue how to win at this level but the key difference is that also have a coach who is lost about how to win at this level. So who's in better shape here??? Don't the Rangers have t beat the Leafs to get to the next level? If you just look at things in your little insular bubble you fail to learn the lessons from other organizations.

I'm not trying to hype my hockey credentials-- I know what they are and I know they stack up to anyone on this site probably favorably

Bold- Again I have to repeat, it just seems like you aren't processing what is actually being said. I get why you THINK it makes sense to post what you're posting there but if you read what's actually being said you'd realize how what you're saying is pointless.

Italics: All of this was already addressed. Again I cannot understand why you thought this would counter anything I said bc it doesn't even remotely come close. You completely missed the point.

After that you seem to be making an atrocious apples to oranges comparison that misses out on so many obvious things which leads me back to my original point. You are failing to consider anything that does not agree with your pre-conceived opinion. Your opinion is so flawed and full of so many holes at such a basic level that it invites an overwhelmingly negative response. It is very strange to me how overwhelmingly negative the response to you is, so consistently, yet you never question if maybe it's just that you're wrong. That's not promoting blind acceptance of the majority and that's not a personal attack, it's promoting self reflection. You seem to have convinced yourself that your being attacked bc it makes it easier to dismiss what you're being told. You even used the words "disgusting" and for what? Because I pointed out that your opinions are massively flawed and consistently met with criticism. That is not a personal attack at all that is a direct criticism of your opinion and not you the person. You somehow think this is me telling you that culture is never an issue and that you should agree with everyone else when neither of those two things are even close to what I'm saying

Idc if you were hyping your credentials or not. They were utterly irrelevant. Your analysis was enormously flawed. Whether you have 2 years or 30 years has no bearing on how badly argued your stance was.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I wasn't trying to instigate by pointing out how you said you don't watch games as much. I was pointing out credit to your point and proposing to you what I see. So my response before this wasn't meant to be rude or anything. I digress...

I think Lias being 'much worse' is a personal examination. I think he's been better this year for sure. I also dont think last year there was such a gap between him and Howden that made it any sense to favor Howden so. That's your opinion they did, I happen to very much disagree. Even if I were to agree with that the gap was so big, I'd still find it concerning that on a rebuilding roster my coach isn't experimenting with these guys.

Let's take Lias Andersson out of the equation for a second. What has Brett Howden done to deserve such a long leash? Again, I'm in full support of Howden becoming the best player he can for this team and not another, but he has been far from perfect. He's been just an average middle six guy, on his best nights. I'd say hes actually not really progressing and more so plateauing over the last 40 games or so, and being up to over a full season of NHL work, would mean he's not perfect. If it wasn't a rebuilding team he'd be in the AHL or on the 4th line.

So Howden is not perfect. Not to mention he's not being really challenged to get any better because he's spoon fed minutes with no worry of being underwhelming let alone bad. Considering all that, I don't see how you can just wash out last season, regardless of Lias or not. Bring Lias back into the conversation and, like I said before, I'm concerned the coach isn't at least tossing him an extended try out in a larger role.

I dont think hes had a long leash. I don't think he's done anything wrong enough to warrant being labeled as "on a leash". But he hasn't done anything to stick out either. Lias is in the same boat which is why I'm saying that we should give this a hellyuva lot more than just a dozen games this yea before making the change.If one guy was truly distinguishing themselves it'd make this easier but neither is so I would expect a change before the midpoint of the year. I think it's very fair to give it 25-35 games. WHat might happen is Howden will hit a big slump, giving the staff plenty of issues to identify. At that point, with lias having solidified many aspects of his game, he steps in and maybe excels while Howden gets to key in on his flaws in a low responsibility, low ice time environment. That's what it seems like this staff does and I've seen it working most of the time. You know who doesn't get this kind of treatment is Skjei and everyone talks about what a regressing sack of crap he is

 

[JHS]

Can't help myself? You were whining about something happening when it's your fault. What do u want a pat on the head? You also gave me absolutely nothing. THATS what your insight is? That so and so isn't good enough? Arbitrary ice time complaints for Lias? Arbitrary line complaints that don't make sense for buch? A bunch of extremely basic stats and basic complaints about passes with zero context, evidence or definitive links to Quinn? this was analysis that a 25 year plus expert should have? And how are you going to tell me about how you consistently provide in depth analysis as if your posting history isn't there? I don't understand why you thought this post would accomplish what you thought it would

You don't need to be able to provide more but how are you going to talk yourself up and act like this is anything? Half of it likely isn't even an issue let alone the coaches fault yet you presented all of it like lead pipe evidence. Everything here reinforces what I said about how you seem to have enormous deficits in how youthink about the game

Wait so now the coach is not using the players correctly but that's somehow evidence as to why he's doing a good job?? Please think about what you post before you just continue to spew absolute backwards logic into a conversation that's clearly over your head...or maybe it's too late for that since it looks like you've already argued against yourself. Also, I've never once claimed to be an expert-- I'm a guy with an opinion. An educated and experienced opinion but you know opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one. I honestly don't intend to waste my time going on and on with you about this-- you've proven an argumentative person who, for whatever reason, seems to have it out for me or is trying to defend this precious board from any and all opinions that are counter to yours. Get off the high horse and accept the fact that people see the game different than yours.

You also can feel free to keep attacking my knowledge because it's honestly comical. I'm THE ONLY ONE offering any form of analysis here, between me and you. Every single one of your posts just tells me I know nothing. And literally everyone of your posts of regurgitating the same excuses the masses on here present as gospel for why these players are not taking strides forward. You asked for examples and I provided several with almost no real effort. I won't bother breaking down game film for you because it would be a gigantic waste of time. Has Brady gotten any better? no- Has Buch taken strides in his career this year, ok maybe a few but nothing significant-- he's alittle quicker to the puck, seems to handle the puck a bit better but still makes defensive blunders, can't find his man on defense and takes parts of the game off. Has the team's defensive structure significantly imporved-- nope it's actually gotten significantly worse as literally every single stat shows. I mean I actually have no clue what you are even trying to get at. If you think coach Quinn is great-- fantastic but you won't convince me of that.

 

[JHS]

Bold- Again I have to repeat, it just seems like you aren't processing what is actually being said. I get why you THINK it makes sense to post what you're posting there but if you read what's actually being said you'd realize how what you're saying is pointless.

Italics: All of this was already addressed. Again I cannot understand why you thought this would counter anything I said bc it doesn't even remotely come close. You completely missed the point.

After that you seem to be making an atrocious apples to oranges comparison that misses out on so many obvious things which leads me back to my original point. You are failing to consider anything that does not agree with your pre-conceived opinion. Your opinion is so flawed and full of so many holes at such a basic level that it invites an overwhelmingly negative response. It is very strange to me how overwhelmingly negative the response to you is, so consistently, yet you never question if maybe it's just that you're wrong. That's not promoting blind acceptance of the majority and that's not a personal attack, it's promoting self reflection. You seem to have convinced yourself that your being attacked bc it makes it easier to dismiss what you're being told. You even used the words "disgusting" and for what? Because I pointed out that your opinions are massively flawed and consistently met with criticism. That is not a personal attack at all that is a direct criticism of your opinion and not you the person. You somehow think this is me telling you that culture is never an issue and that you should agree with everyone else when neither of those two things are even close to what I'm saying

Idc if you were hyping your credentials or not. They were utterly irrelevant. Your analysis was enormously flawed. Whether you have 2 years or 30 years has no bearing on how badly argued your stance was.

I'm actually done with this whole situation with you. You have it out for me-- why I don't know. I know exactly what I'm reading. It's the same nonsense that many post on here. Inane player analysis based on preconceived hope or hype about prospects and blind allegiance to the organization because you, and many like you, just can't see what's in front of you. I think others have pointed out that you admit to not watching as many games as you used to. I don't know you but honestly I'd rather discus games and situations with people who actually watch.

How is comparing a Toronto team that was in the early stages of a rebuild in 2016 to a Rangers team that is in the early stages of a rebuild in 2019 and apples to oranges comparison? THE TEAMS ARE IN THE SAME STAGE OF THE PROCESS!!!! What Toronto's situation in 2016 shows us is players were being called out by the coach for lack of compete. I'm pretty sure David Quinn just did that with the Rangers. Again, APPLES TO APPLES. Next, let's play out Toronto's situation and you can clearly see that 3 years from the early stages of their rebuild they went out and got several top players but here they are with a core of younger players who still does not know how to win! The Rangers, similarly went out and got two players designed to accelerate the process and we have yet to see what will happen. ( Again apples to apples). The ONLY differences I see in this whole comparison is that Toronto had, from the start a Stanley Cup winning coach, and the Rangers have a former college coach. Clearly the Leafs have much better talent now( in 2019-2020) and possibly even when they started the process in 2016( I think Austen Mathews might project favorably to Kappo but I guess we will see) So again, for those capable of following all this- the Rangers, who were just called out by their coach for compete, who attempted to accelerate the rebuild by going out and getting two players, who have a potentially impact player in Kappo, will almost certainly face the same challenges as the Leafs are right now,. The Rangers, however will be in a worse spot because they have a coach with less experience behind the bench who will have to figure out a winning formula, unlike Babcock who has already done that. If you still can't see the analysis and the comparison "that's on you."

I actually think I may be getting trolled here at this point by @shinchanuuhh

 

[NYR]

Can't help myself? You were whining about something happening when it's your fault. What do u want a pat on the head? You also gave me absolutely nothing. THATS what your insight is? That so and so isn't good enough? Arbitrary ice time complaints for Lias? Arbitrary line complaints that don't make sense for buch? A bunch of extremely basic stats and basic complaints about passes with zero context, evidence or definitive links to Quinn? this was analysis that a 25 year plus expert should have? And how are you going to tell me about how you consistently provide in depth analysis as if your posting history isn't there? I don't understand why you thought this post would accomplish what you thought it would

You don't need to be able to provide more but how are you going to talk yourself up and act like this is anything? Half of it likely isn't even an issue let alone the coaches fault yet you presented all of it like lead pipe evidence. Everything here reinforces what I said about how you seem to have enormous deficits in how youthink about the game

He gave you absolutely nothing?

Maybe he should give you a guided tour of the Garden.
You can see what ice and an actual stick look like... For realz lol

OK I'll stop now before I get in trouble

 

[Kupo]

 

[NYR]

Wait..That's not Ramen

 

[eco's bones]

Bold 1
Group think?This comment makes no sense. I know WHY you think it does but if you read what's actually being said you'd realize this is nonsense

2
This is meaningless. There's a good reason why high school hockey players rarely ever get drafted high, let alone walk into the NHL right away. It is also irrelevant to the current topic where you have demonstrated a complete lack of awareness of almost every aspect of Toronto's team with the exception of the fact that they have some highly skilled players in their top 6. If you DO have a better ability to analyze anything hockey related...well it damn sure doesn't show up anywhere...at all...let alone in this topic. Your brag is the equivalent of a guy who became an apprentice level auto mechanic thinking he's ready to be an expert in building rockets. Sure they're vehicles but the knowledge you lack makes you closer to an average Joe then it does to a capable pro hockey analyst. What is more likely is that you are severely overestimating your opinions bc of your minor minor minor league experiences.

3 Yes. Everything in my post responds to this appropriately. Your inability to figure out how my comment fits into the discussion is not my problem

4 Your incredibly well supported conclusions? That's plural. We are only discussing one conclusion of yours. I don't think you understand the conversation which is what I said before.

It's not a personal insult to point out that your posts are consistently dismissed, ignored and disliked. I'm just pointing out the fact that most people dislike what you're saying. Sure there's something to be said about not just going along with group think. But there's also something to be said for when everyone tells you it's you...

Clearly you dislike being constantly challenged and you don't like when it's pointed out how your comments are met with an overwhelmingly negative response so why exactly do you subject yourself to this? (Which, again, not a personal insult to say your comments are poorly received) I don't get what you get out of it.

I've never been a fan of people who post things and then congratulate themselves on how smart they are before anyone has a chance to comment. It is a way of deflecting critique and critique is always useful--that I think is a problem with the poster you're replying too. I've played hockey for a long time too--it certainly can help someone understand the game but it's not necessarily a be all end all. Jeff Gorton for one may or may not have played at all--you won't find him listed at Elite Prospects or Hockey DB as a player though and yet he has a fairly profound understanding of the game and he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people. None of us are always right--none of us know all the answers and sometimes you do have to take a step or two backwards before you can go forwards again. That's what the Rangers chose to do because their window for winning a championship had closed.

I think also people see the coach or the GM and that's where they stop. A lot don't put much consideration in the people around them and the group effort it takes to build a championship team.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Wait so now the coach is not using the players correctly but that's somehow evidence as to why he's doing a good job??

Not what I'm saying.

Please think about what you post before you just continue to spew absolute backwards logic into a conversation that's clearly over your head...or maybe it's too late for that since it looks like you've already argued against yourself. .

You didnt even understand what I said...

. Also, I've never once claimed to be an expert-- I'm a guy with an opinion.

Never said you did

I honestly don't intend to waste my time going on and on with you about this-- you've proven an argumentative person who, for whatever reason, seems to have it out for me or is trying to defend this precious board from any and all opinions that are counter to yours. Get off the high horse and accept the fact that people see the game different than yours.

This makes less than zero sense

You also can feel free to keep attacking my knowledge because it's honestly comical.

Again you keep using this word attack to describe being questioned. At least you took out the word "personal" bc it's demonstrably untrue.

I'm THE ONLY ONE offering any form of analysis here, between me and you. Every single one of your posts just tells me I know nothing.

I gave you it in the very first post I made here and you never figured out wth it was so our convo stalled out. I even pointed out that you failed to understand it and you never went back so wth am I supposed to do? You keep introducing new and innovative ways to imagine you're being persecuted instead of figuring out what I'm actually saying

And literally everyone of your posts of regurgitating the same excuses the masses on here present as gospel for why these players are not taking strides forward. You asked for examples and I provided several with almost no real effort. I won't bother breaking down game film for you because it would be a gigantic waste of time. Has Brady gotten any better? no- Has Buch taken strides in his career this year, ok maybe a few but nothing significant-- he's alittle quicker to the puck, seems to handle the puck a bit better but still makes defensive blunders, can't find his man on defense and takes parts of the game off. Has the team's defensive structure significantly imporved-- nope it's actually gotten significantly worse as literally every single stat shows. I mean I actually have no clue what you are even trying to get at. If you think coach Quinn is great-- fantastic but you won't convince me of that.

You keep going back to the well of painting this as "Everyone is wrong but me". It's the masses? What masses? You never even figured out what I was saying, how tf would you know if I'm regurgitating anyone's point when you never figured out what the point was? What's the point/points I made in the first post? Start there.

Your examples were SUPPOSED to definitively show Quinn's flaws but they were either awful, poorly thought out, not even examples of something bad or...wait goddammit I SAID all this. You're just reiterating the stuff I already pointed out as bad and now I'm reiterating the stuff I already said as a counter to that. Just bc you said THINGS doesn't mean it was worth the bandwidth it took up nor does it mean it actually addresses the question fully.

 

[eco's bones]

In addition, if you were always against the rebuild, then of course you're going to dislike Quinn as coach. I have my gripes with him, but it's hard to ignore just how challenging of a roster he's been given, and we all know that he signed up the job fully knowing this would happen. I think he's had more of a positive impact than not, despite me disagreeing with some of his tactics.

To add to your post--last year was Quinn learning who his players were and what they were capable of and it was a team with lots of kids who were trying to find their way and a balancing act of getting the vets schooled in a whole new system. AV preferred that man to man D and he didn't want his players reacting to abuse from other teams. He seemed to think that Tanner Glass could handle any problems like that.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I'm actually done with this whole situation with you. You have it out for me-- why I don't know. I know exactly what I'm reading. It's the same nonsense that many post on here. Inane player analysis based on preconceived hope or hype about prospects and blind allegiance to the organization because you, and many like you, just can't see what's in front of you. I think others have pointed out that you admit to not watching as many games as you used to. I don't know you but honestly I'd rather discus games and situations with people who actually watch.

How is comparing a Toronto team that was in the early stages of a rebuild in 2016 to a Rangers team that is in the early stages of a rebuild in 2019 and apples to oranges comparison? THE TEAMS ARE IN THE SAME STAGE OF THE PROCESS!!!! What Toronto's situation in 2016 shows us is players were being called out by the coach for lack of compete. I'm pretty sure David Quinn just did that with the Rangers. Again, APPLES TO APPLES. Next, let's play out Toronto's situation and you can clearly see that 3 years from the early stages of their rebuild they went out and got several top players but here they are with a core of younger players who still does not know how to win! The Rangers, similarly went out and got two players designed to accelerate the process and we have yet to see what will happen. ( Again apples to apples). The ONLY differences I see in this whole comparison is that Toronto had, from the start a Stanley Cup winning coach, and the Rangers have a former college coach. Clearly the Leafs have much better talent now( in 2019-2020) and possibly even when they started the process in 2016( I think Austen Mathews might project favorably to Kappo but I guess we will see) So again, for those capable of following all this- the Rangers, who were just called out by their coach for compete, who attempted to accelerate the rebuild by going out and getting two players, who have a potentially impact player in Kappo, will almost certainly face the same challenges as the Leafs are right now,. The Rangers, however will be in a worse spot because they have a coach with less experience behind the bench who will have to figure out a winning formula, unlike Babcock who has already done that. If you still can't see the analysis and the comparison "that's on you."

I actually think I may be getting trolled here at this point by @shinchanuuhh

I dont have it out for you I just find it fascinating how you go about things around here. I see how poorly your points consistently go over and you never stop and reflect on it. I constantly see enormous holes in your thought process in regards to really basic stuff and you just don't see it. Everyone is always pointing it out and getting frustrated with your opinions bc of it too and it's just so interesting that it never changes and you get so annoyed by it...but you keep coming and you never change so I'm like "Why is this dude here?"

Then, I never interact with you and this one single time that i do you're acting like I have it out for you and always attacking you or something. You're at a 25 when you should be at a 3. I'm not persecuting you I'm pointing out 2 main things.


1 Your culture argument COULD have merit but you left enormous holes in your argument.

2 People seem to not enjoy you, you seem to not enjoy this place, so what do you get out of this?

Anyway this has gone in circles. You clearly enjoyed this about as much as a botfly infestation and you aren't figuring out a word I'm saying so before a mod inevitably shuts this down I'm just going to step out

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I've never been a fan of people who post things and then congratulate themselves on how smart they are before anyone has a chance to comment. It is a way of deflecting critique and critique is always useful--that I think is a problem with the poster you're replying too. I've played hockey for a long time too--it certainly can help someone understand the game but it's not necessarily a be all end all. Jeff Gorton for one may or may not have played at all--you won't find him listed at Elite Prospects or Hockey DB as a player though and yet he has a fairly profound understanding of the game and he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people. None of us are always right--none of us know all the answers and sometimes you do have to take a step or two backwards before you can go forwards again. That's what the Rangers chose to do because their window for winning a championship had closed.

I think also people see the coach or the GM and that's where they stop. A lot don't put much consideration in the people around them and the group effort it takes to build a championship team.

I dont even mind the qualifier of someone's personal experiences being brought up but it has to have a reason for being brought up.

In this case it was like "Here's my poorly conceived thought...I have 25 years of ill defined experience at a level so low that it really isn't worth mentioning...but you should accept what i said bc of my 25 years there." It did not have any place in this conversation.

Good points all around.

 

[eco's bones]

I dont even mind the qualifier of someone's personal experiences being brought up but it has to have a reason for being brought up.

In this case it was like "Here's my poorly conceived thought...I have 25 years of ill defined experience at a level so low that it really isn't worth mentioning...but you should accept what i said bc of my 25 years there." It did not have any place in this conversation.

Good points all around.

I agree. Here's my main issue with some of this. Will what we are doing now eventually win a championship? Maybe....and maybe's not the same as yes. If we had not changed tacks and gone on doing what we were doing? No.....the window had closed. That wasn't going to work.

So we had to change.

 

[NYR]

I've never been a fan of people who post things and then congratulate themselves on how smart they are before anyone has a chance to comment. It is a way of deflecting critique and critique is always useful--that I think is a problem with the poster you're replying too. I've played hockey for a long time too--it certainly can help someone understand the game but it's not necessarily a be all end all. Jeff Gorton for one may or may not have played at all--you won't find him listed at Elite Prospects or Hockey DB as a player though and yet he has a fairly profound understanding of the game and he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people. None of us are always right--none of us know all the answers and sometimes you do have to take a step or two backwards before you can go forwards again. That's what the Rangers chose to do because their window for winning a championship had closed.

I think also people see the coach or the GM and that's where they stop. A lot don't put much consideration in the people around them and the group effort it takes to build a championship team.

Eco.. You're well respected on here and you're defending a poster who talks to people in the manor in which he does?
Shame on you..

 

[eco's bones]

Eco.. You're well respected on here and you're defending a poster who talks to people in the manor in which he does?
Shame on you..

I had no idea I was well respected here to be honest. I look at myself as just another Rangers fan. There are a lot of us and lots of ways of looking at the things that happen around our team. I never agree with anyone on everything though--that is true. Hopefully no one else does either. People have the right to be wrong on things or it's even possible to be right on something even if the entire consensus is against them. Eventually though everyone is wrong on something---that's life. People aren't perfect---we are all flawed in some way. Knowing that is knowing to some degree humility. It's a good character trait to have IMO.

We're not in a contest against each other.....but the Rangers did make a change of direction and there's no going back and hardly anything left to go back to anyway. For instance we fleeced the Bruins on a concussion prone Rick Nash and he was a key player to the way things were before. We went in the direction we had to and got in front of the problem instead of let it comes to us. It's painful but whatever.....I've followed this team now for 47 years. Pain comes with being a Rangers fan.

 

[JHS]

I dont have it out for you I just find it fascinating how you go about things around here. I see how poorly your points consistently go over and you never stop and reflect on it. I constantly see enormous holes in your thought process in regards to really basic stuff and you just don't see it. Everyone is always pointing it out and getting frustrated with your opinions bc of it too and it's just so interesting that it never changes and you get so annoyed by it...but you keep coming and you never change so I'm like "Why is this dude here?"

Then, I never interact with you and this one single time that i do you're acting like I have it out for you and always attacking you or something. You're at a 25 when you should be at a 3. I'm not persecuting you I'm pointing out 2 main things.


1 Your culture argument COULD have merit but you left enormous holes in your argument.

2 People seem to not enjoy you, you seem to not enjoy this place, so what do you get out of this?

Anyway this has gone in circles. You clearly enjoyed this about as much as a botfly infestation and you aren't figuring out a word I'm saying so before a mod inevitably shuts this down I'm just going to step out

Cool- glad we can agree that you are a giant waste of time. With your level of “hard cutting analysis” I’ll just go ahead and add you to my ignore list. You’ve only ever analyzed my posts and offered 0 perspective of your own. I find your entire decorum comical— at least the posts I make have substance and and argument which can be evaluated. You’ve offered nothing in this back and forth besides “Your arguement has holes.” You can’t even point out what the holes are though or add in your own perspective and don’t wan’t an honest debate— you just want to insult me.

DEFINITION of ignore

 

[JHS]

I've never been a fan of people who post things and then congratulate themselves on how smart they are before anyone has a chance to comment. It is a way of deflecting critique and critique is always useful--that I think is a problem with the poster you're replying too. I've played hockey for a long time too--it certainly can help someone understand the game but it's not necessarily a be all end all. Jeff Gorton for one may or may not have played at all--you won't find him listed at Elite Prospects or Hockey DB as a player though and yet he has a fairly profound understanding of the game and he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people. None of us are always right--none of us know all the answers and sometimes you do have to take a step or two backwards before you can go forwards again. That's what the Rangers chose to do because their window for winning a championship had closed.

I think also people see the coach or the GM and that's where they stop. A lot don't put much consideration in the people around them and the group effort it takes to build a championship team.

I just have to say— and this is the problem with text as a form of communication, that I came under attack before I listed my hockey credentials and did so not to brag or toot my own horn here. I’m not here to have my ego stroked. I came here searching for honest dialogue about a team I love with people who share a common interest. I think it’s fair that when I’m personally attacked by implying that I have some sort of issue in my reading comprehension or serious lack of knowledge of a game I’ve been around 80% of my life that I point out otherwise. I share @NYR concern that you decided to embolden someone whose track record on here is abusive.

Anyway, I’ve spent too much time with this. I’ll await the next discussion I think I can offer some perspective to— probably won’t be a perspective shared by many on here— and jump into that discussion.

Sorry for the major thread drift everyone.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Cool- glad we can agree that you are a giant waste of time. With your level of “hard cutting analysis” I’ll just go ahead and add you to my ignore list. You’ve only ever analyzed my posts and offered 0 perspective of your own. I find your entire decorum comical— at least the posts I make have substance and and argument which can be evaluated. You’ve offered nothing in this back and forth besides “Your arguement has holes.” You can’t even point out what the holes are though or add in your own perspective and don’t wan’t an honest debate— you just want to insult me.

DEFINITION of ignore

This is almost all untrue lol

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

It's too early. Accidentally posted bc the site said I hadn't responded to something I thought I did.

 

[Raspewtin]

Brett Howden is a massive massive blind spot for David Quinn right now

he does absolutely nothing well. 80% of his games have been useless duds. he is a black hole offensively and defensively and quinn keeps giving him escalating minutes

 

[Leetch3]

every howden/lias comment this year is 100% deja vu to the same debates over pionk & ada last year

 

[eco's bones]

I just have to say— and this is the problem with text as a form of communication, that I came under attack before I listed my hockey credentials and did so not to brag or toot my own horn here. I’m not here to have my ego stroked. I came here searching for honest dialogue about a team I love with people who share a common interest. I think it’s fair that when I’m personally attacked by implying that I have some sort of issue in my reading comprehension or serious lack of knowledge of a game I’ve been around 80% of my life that I point out otherwise. I share @NYR concern that you decided to embolden someone whose track record on here is abusive.

Anyway, I’ve spent too much time with this. I’ll await the next discussion I think I can offer some perspective to— probably won’t be a perspective shared by many on here— and jump into that discussion.

Sorry for the major thread drift everyone.

FWIW I have friends who got very involved in coaching youth programs and into refereeing. There's a lot that goes into it. In NYS anyway you have to do a lot of shit to get certified as a referee. One of my best friends did that and then his son did it too and his son was good enough that he even got the opportunity to ref a few Div 3 college games but then he went in the Marines....that was a while ago and he died in 2010. A lot of grief in that. But I take the game very seriously and the Rangers are my team and even if they almost always fail I still get a lot of joy from following them. Opinions don't always align. I am optimistic about the future. I'm not a 60+ year old who sees everything around him as shit and as far as the Rangers I think things are looking up.

 

[JHS]

FWIW I have friends who got very involved in coaching youth programs and into refereeing. There's a lot that goes into it. In NYS anyway you have to do a lot of **** to get certified as a referee. One of my best friends did that and then his son did it too and his son was good enough that he even got the opportunity to ref a few Div 3 college games but then he went in the Marines....that was a while ago and he died in 2010. A lot of grief in that. But I take the game very seriously and the Rangers are my team and even if they almost always fail I still get a lot of joy from following them. Opinions don't always align. I am optimistic about the future. I'm not a 60+ year old who sees everything around him as **** and as far as the Rangers I think things are looking up.

Thanks for this. I agree— I think the future for the Rangers is bright and I look forward to watching it.

You are right, it’s not easy getting certified to officiate hockey games but it’s tremendous! Great way to earn some extra spending money. I’ve been doing it’s since I was like 15 and here I am 22 years later, still doing it.

I’m curious to see how the game goes tonight vs. the Penguins. Even though the Pens are not what they once were they still have talent.