Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[NYR]

Not exactly surprising that this turnaround started mid-Dec when Howden stopped getting 15+ mins/game.

Bottom line.. None of these kids were ready yet.
When does JG start getting some criticism for his actions??

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Oh I see.. So apparently it's Quinn that's responsible for Zibs production.
I guess he's also the reason Panarin is having a good season.
That's weak as hell but..Got it

'

So that’s weak? Ok. You DO understand that both Panarin& ZBad are having their best seasons by far?

So let me get this straight. Quinn is responsible for all the bad you see from younger players. And has zero to do with players having their best seasons?

got it. Crystal clear. What was that about? Weak? That’s was the term, yes?

You're both wrong. This is the problem with debates these days. Two extremes, no middle ground.

Quinn isn't responsible for all the bad performances
Quinn isn't responsible for all the good performances

Quinn is a good coach, who has had his positive effect on certain players, while at the same time having bad moments where he negatively impacted the team/players. There's a lot to like in Quinn, but at the same time that doesn't make him immune to criticism.

We can do better, but we can also do a lot worse. Rangers management thinks Quinn is the right coach for the situation we are in, similar to Renney over a decade ago. My biggest question is whether he can evolve and be the coach throughout the decade, as we go from rebuilding team, to contender.

 

[duhmetreE]

Bottom line.. None of these kids were ready yet.
When does JG start getting some criticism for his actions??

Not exactly a criticism. This is what 'patience' looks like. Kids figuring it out in the NHL. If they're waaaay off, they got sent down.

Howden is still a boy. When/if he turns into a man, he's going to be much better. With Lias out of the picture for now, we really need Howden to be that guy as the 3c

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

'



You're both wrong. This is the problem with debates these days. Two extremes, no middle ground.

Quinn isn't responsible for all the bad performances
Quinn isn't responsible for all the good performances

Quinn is a good coach, who has had his positive effect on certain players, while at the same time having bad moments where he negatively impacted the team/players. There's a lot to like in Quinn, but at the same time that doesn't make him immune to criticism.

We can do better, but we can also do a lot worse. Rangers management thinks Quinn is the right coach for the situation we are in, similar to Renney over a decade ago. My biggest question is whether he can evolve and be the coach throughout the decade, as we go from rebuilding team, to contender.

Good post.

Piggybacking on this, not unlike players, coaches develop and can improve over time. In general, I agree with the idea that the guy to help build your team may not be the guy to get it to the promised land. But by the same token, we’ve seen a number of players improve under DQ, and now we’re seeing the overall results get better too. Let’s see how he does over the next year + before we go predicting his demise. It is his first NHL gig, after all.

 

[JHS]

Don't shoot the messenger, I was just reading the BJ's board after they lost the game (not their only gripe with him after that game either.) I usually do that, for perspective. Literally every fan base complains abut their coach.

No one has any trouble ripping into Quinn for all the TMM penalties we've taken in the last 18 months.

But every fan is not right if they are on the coach for too many men. At the younger levels it is a coach penalty but not at higher levels.

 

[True Blue]

'



You're both wrong. This is the problem with debates these days. Two extremes, no middle ground.

Quinn isn't responsible for all the bad performances
Quinn isn't responsible for all the good performances

That’s my point, AK. Blaming all woes on Quinn yet steadfastly refusing to give him any credit for anything positive seems disingenuous.

 

[duhmetreE]

I question/criticize Quinn on occasion but he's helped develop good habits for the youngins.

He's serving his purpose. Ruff on the other hand...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That’s my point, AK. Blaming all woes on Quinn yet steadfastly refusing to give him any credit for anything positive seems disingenuous.

So is giving him credit for things that go well, without criticizing him for the mistakes he makes

 

[Mac n Gs]

Over the last 25 games, the team is 4th overall in HDCF% and 14th in xGF%, and if you look at the splits individually, they've been really good at generating scoring chances and middle-of-the-pack at preventing them. I can live with that type of balance moving forward, and I've liked how the team has shown they can win different styles of games. They've been in three absolute bog-fests against WPG, MIN, and CBJ and have come out on top in all 3 games. Say what you want about him, but he's gotten this team to play harder and less and less like a one-trick pony, which is the exact type of progress you want to see during a rebuild.

Yes, there have been some things that have frustrated me, but I give Quinn a lot of credit for getting this team to right the ship after a really terrible start.

 

[NYR]

'



You're both wrong. This is the problem with debates these days. Two extremes, no middle ground.

Quinn isn't responsible for all the bad performances
Quinn isn't responsible for all the good performances

Quinn is a good coach, who has had his positive effect on certain players, while at the same time having bad moments where he negatively impacted the team/players. There's a lot to like in Quinn, but at the same time that doesn't make him immune to criticism.

We can do better, but we can also do a lot worse. Rangers management thinks Quinn is the right coach for the situation we are in, similar to Renney over a decade ago. My biggest question is whether he can evolve and be the coach throughout the decade, as we go from rebuilding team, to contender.

Hey..I realize my complaints come off as a bit extreme which is not really my intention but if I weed through all the BS (Always my MO!), I simply can’t sit here and ever understand how giving up 40 SOG a game is ever acceptable under any circumstances.

I mean..there are very simple measures that can be taken to prevent this and it’s continuously ignored by this organization.
Quite frankly this management should be embarrassed for allowing this to continue without doing a single thing to address it.
I don’t want to hear the team is too young or about cap problems either.

I’m not looking to win a cup right this second and I’m certainly not blaming DQ for the weather either but when common sense things prevent the team from moving forward continuously?
Then I have to ask..WTF?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hey..I realize my complaints come off as a bit extreme which is not really my intention but if I weed through all the BS (Always my MO!), I simply can’t sit here and ever understand how giving up 40 SOG a game is ever acceptable under any circumstances.

I mean..there are very simple measures that can be taken to prevent this and it’s continuously ignored by this organization.
Quite frankly this management should be embarrassed for allowing this to continue without doing a single thing to address it.
I don’t want to hear the team is too young or about cap problems either.

I’m not looking to win a cup right this second and I’m certainly not blaming DQ for the weather either but when common sense things prevent the team from moving forward continuously?
Then I have to ask..WTF?

There are things that Quinn deserves credit for.

- The resilience this team has shown is part of the culture he's trying to instill
- The positive impact he's had on Buchnevich and DeAngelo
- Actually trusting a young Shestyorkin and Georgiev over Lundqvist

At the same time there are things I just cannot get over

- Benching players for taking bad penalties while putting his team on the PK because he can't control himself
- The love affair with Howden
- The lack of consistency on defense (both on Quinn and Ruff)

As I said, Quinn is a good coach and probably the right fit for this stage of the path towards a Cup. But that doesn't mean he is flawless. We should be able to criticize him for his mistakes, but when I see people opting to fire him and hire Laviolette/Gallant/Boudreau or whichever coach is available, I honestly wonder what that will do for us.

I love Laviolette, but he's not flawless either. I don't think a different coach can get more out of this team to be honest.

What bothers me a bit about the "praising Quinn for the development of young players" is that when AV was the coach, nobody ever gave him credit for Zuccarello, Brassard, Kreider, Miller, Fast, Skjei and Hayes all improving under AV. We always had to hear how AV "didn't like young players". You can't have it both ways. Either both Quinn and AV deserve credit for it, or neither. The same goes for criticism. It's not always black and white. Bottom line is: Quinn is a good coach, and probably the right fit for now despite his mistakes/flaws. He's not going anywhere in the next 2-3 years. I just hope Quinn learns from his mistakes and evolves as a coach because I would love to see this organization hang on to a coach for more than 5 years for once. I would love to see a coach take us all the way from picking 2nd overall to lifting a Cup

 

[Tawnos]

You can’t credit Quinn for the culture on one hand and criticize him for the benchings on the other. They’re part of the same thing.

I don’t think anyone thinks Quinn has nothing that he could be criticized for. I do think he failed to communicate properly with Andersson towards the beginning of the season, for instance. But there’s a difference between specific criticisms and claiming the guy is a bad coach.

And that’s the part I think gets people’s backs up. A lot of the things people cite to why he’s a bad coach come from things that are nothing more than a matter of approach. Or they’re based on expectations of the coach that the team itself doesn’t have. Those are, frankly, dumb stances to have.

And by the way, I pointed out *all the time* that AV’s track record with young players was actually quite good.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And by the way, I pointed out *all the time* that AV’s track record with young players was actually quite good.

I know you did, but you're the minority.

 

[Tawnos]

I know you did, but you're the minority.

Lifelong holder of minority opinions

 

[NYR]

There are things that Quinn deserves credit for.

- The resilience this team has shown is part of the culture he's trying to instill
- The positive impact he's had on Buchnevich and DeAngelo
- Actually trusting a young Shestyorkin and Georgiev over Lundqvist

At the same time there are things I just cannot get over

- Benching players for taking bad penalties while putting his team on the PK because he can't control himself
- The love affair with Howden
- The lack of consistency on defense (both on Quinn and Ruff)

As I said, Quinn is a good coach and probably the right fit for this stage of the path towards a Cup. But that doesn't mean he is flawless. We should be able to criticize him for his mistakes, but when I see people opting to fire him and hire Laviolette/Gallant/Boudreau or whichever coach is available, I honestly wonder what that will do for us.

I love Laviolette, but he's not flawless either. I don't think a different coach can get more out of this team to be honest.

What bothers me a bit about the "praising Quinn for the development of young players" is that when AV was the coach, nobody ever gave him credit for Zuccarello, Brassard, Kreider, Miller, Fast, Skjei and Hayes all improving under AV. We always had to hear how AV "didn't like young players". You can't have it both ways. Either both Quinn and AV deserve credit for it, or neither. The same goes for criticism. It's not always black and white. Bottom line is: Quinn is a good coach, and probably the right fit for now despite his mistakes/flaws. He's not going anywhere in the next 2-3 years. I just hope Quinn learns from his mistakes and evolves as a coach because I would love to see this organization hang on to a coach for more than 5 years for once. I would love to see a coach take us all the way from picking 2nd overall to lifting a Cup

See.. This might be where the misconception comes from.
I'm a very detail oriented person in business and in life.

I admittedly have not credited DQ for the good things he's done as I feel that it's more of a natural progression of players with a certain pedigree.

I will never, nor have I ever made up excuses just to support a narrative.

However..I do feel that DQ is lacking in not only experience but he falls completely short of qualifying as a legit NHL coach through his tactics.

@aufheben even posted multiple links that take you inside the mind of DQ and how he thinks the game.

I cannot for the life of me, after looking at it from every angle, rationalize or agree with how he runs a system.

He's not looking for NHL players, he's looking for f***ing robots.

It's never going to work over the short or long term IMO.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

I can't wait to see a real coach replace this f***ing loser.

 

[NYR]

I can't wait to see a real coach replace this ****ing loser.

He really has a lot to learn only it shouldn't be at the NHL level as if he's just another prospect.
It's a f***ing joke..

 

[aufheben]

I’m sure you guys would be thrilled if the Rangers were 1st in the league and just got dominated for the entire 3rd period by a 19th place team.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’m sure you guys would be thrilled if the Rangers were 1st in the league and just got dominated for the entire 3rd period by a 19th place team.

Fire Quinn, amirite?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fire Quinn, amirite?

The mid season turnaround has been remarkable.

 

[Athor]

22 SOG against in a game is a very reasonable and an obtainable target folks..

No it's not. Not in today's NHL. This isn't the game of 2 line passes & clutching/grabbing ala the 90s Devils anymore. The best team in the league in shots against is still giving up over 28/game.

Over the last 20 games they've surrendered 40 shots 3 times. They have just as many games where they've held the opponent to 30 or less.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Shots against is more or less meaningless tbh.

I mean you don’t want to be giving up 40 shots nightly but sometimes it’s gonna happen (if you open up a big lead for example.)

quality scoring chances for and against is more important and we’ve been much improved in that area.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Over the last 25 games, the team is 4th overall in HDCF% and 14th in xGF%, and if you look at the splits individually, they've been really good at generating scoring chances and middle-of-the-pack at preventing them. I can live with that type of balance moving forward, and I've liked how the team has shown they can win different styles of games. They've been in three absolute bog-fests against WPG, MIN, and CBJ and have come out on top in all 3 games. Say what you want about him, but he's gotten this team to play harder and less and less like a one-trick pony, which is the exact type of progress you want to see during a rebuild.

Yes, there have been some things that have frustrated me, but I give Quinn a lot of credit for getting this team to right the ship after a really terrible start.

Their quality chance prevention will improve as the team gets more experience. Youngest team in the league with a defense that is primarily composed of guys who are either barely old enough to rent a car or barely old enough to legally order a beer at a bar. Regardless, I'd rather be a team that takes 1 to give 2 than be a team that neither takes or gives little. Those teams rarely win.

I got really, really, REALLY down on Quinn in December, I had even said that if the poll had been put up then, he would have received a D grade from me. Everything you want to see improve has more or less improved since then. Perfect he is not, but no coach is and the results are obvious.

I don't think he is going to be the right guy to guide this team when its time to contend, but hell if he hasn't gotten this group to take the right steps towards getting there.

 

[True Blue]

I can't wait to see a real coach replace this ****ing loser.

Oh, look. The so-called silent majority gets a member. How cute.


What is the quote? You will never go broke underestimating of the people.......

 

[romba]

Shots against is more or less meaningless tbh.

I mean you don’t want to be giving up 40 shots nightly but sometimes it’s gonna happen (if you open up a big lead for example.)

quality scoring chances for and against is more important and we’ve been much improved in that area.

Please don't ruin a good story with facts, thx