Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[JHS]

I definitely wouldn't say we know that. People learn from mistakes. These players didn't get to the NHL by being unable to learn.

How do you think "development" happens if you also think that making mistakes doesn't help players improve?

I think I may not be explaining myself well. I know players will make mistakes and that's part of their development. What I'm saying is they are being put in situations that they should not be and that is making their mistakes and number of mistakes even more common. My point is the coach so be designing and using systems that maximize players skill sets and I don't believe Quinn is doing that.

 

[McRanger]

Pretty funny how lately there has been the sounds of crickets on this thread. Guess Quinn will become an idiot again after the tdl?

What else is there to say?

The system is the system, the link earlier points out what many already suspected: that their play in the neutral zone and blue line is not poor defending but by design, and that it will likely continue to lead to sustained opposition pressure.

And while Quinn has made some personnel moves (Haley out of the lineup, Howden out of the top 9, Hajek off the top pair) that were massive improvements, they never should have been needed in the first place and I think overall his player deployment has been, at best, questionable.

Together I think that makes for a sub par coach, and I think the loyalty and patience people have for him is weird considering how little we had in the beginning for our last coach. I think people like Quinn because he came from nowhere (as opposed to the big name hires and retreads that drive people nuts), and because he says the right things and seems like a Very Serious Coach despite the team playing sloppy and undisciplined hockey. And I think that if the coach were some Sather crony, or someone who talked about analytics instead of accountability, the same posters who love Quinn would be losing their minds even if the results were exactly the same.

But that's just my opinion. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind (giving up 40+ shots back to back certainly didn't, which makes the timing of a gloating victory post a little odd) so what's the point in going over the same thing again and again?

 

[McRanger]

I’m just answering the guy’s question. There are parts of the defensive system that drive me nuts. However, the Rangers have been getting better as the season has progressed.

Since Dec. 1st: 18th CF%, 20th xGF%, 21st HDCA/60
Since Jan. 1st: 14th CF%, 13th xGF%, 15th HDCA/60

Definitely improved, though most of the improvements in the ratios have come from the offense improving, not the defense.

Here are the first 10 games of the season, 10 games from the middle of the season (after Chytil was recalled and Zibs was healthy) and the last 10 games.

First 10 games [CF - 385] [xGF - 16.49] [HDCF - 77]
Mid 10 games [CF - 384] [xGF - 16.86] [HDCF - 74]
Last 10 games [CF - 501] [xGF - 20.30] [HDCF - 103]

First 10 games [CA - 510] [xGA - 21.59] [HDCA - 103]
Mid 10 games [CA - 489] [xGA - 22.98] [HDCA - 110]
Last 10 games [CA - 483] [xGA - 19.89] [HDCA - 98]

Massive improvement in offense, modest improvement in defense.

And only a modest defensive improvement is actually a little crazy and concerning when you consider that the team is spending more time in the offense zone and removed Hajek, statistically the worst D-man in the league, off the top pair.

 

[True Blue]

But that's just my opinion. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind (giving up 40+ shots back to back certainly didn't, which makes the timing of a gloating victory post a little odd) so what's the point in going over the same thing again and again?

Not a gloat. More of a commentary. More of thinking that for all those that think he is an idiot, a moron and generally over his head, one would think that such things would be the case all of the time. Not just in lopsided losses.

 

[aufheben]

Quinn kind of has an absurd amount of shit on his plate. Trying to make the team competitive with one of the youngest rosters in the league, ensuring development of top prospects...in addition to that he has to manage an 18-year-old #2OA pick, trade talks about one of his best players, and a 3-goalie situation involving both the future of the franchise and one of its legends. He's been pretty fortunate with the injury bug so far in his career, but still, that's a lot of shit to deal with for any coach, not just a sophomore.

Definitely improved, though most of the improvements in the ratios have come from the offense improving, not the defense.

Here are the first 10 games of the season, 10 games from the middle of the season (after Chytil was recalled and Zibs was healthy) and the last 10 games.

First 10 games [CF - 385] [xGF - 16.49] [HDCF - 77]
Mid 10 games [CF - 384] [xGF - 16.86] [HDCF - 74]
Last 10 games [CF - 501] [xGF - 20.30] [HDCF - 103]

First 10 games [CA - 510] [xGA - 21.59] [HDCA - 103]
Mid 10 games [CA - 489] [xGA - 22.98] [HDCA - 110]
Last 10 games [CA - 483] [xGA - 19.89] [HDCA - 98]

Massive improvement in offense, modest improvement in defense.

And only a modest defensive improvement is actually a little crazy and concerning when you consider that the team is spending more time in the offense zone and removed Hajek, statistically the worst D-man in the league, off the top pair.

Going by shot rates, the offense has improved more than the defense, but both are better. That doesn't mean the defense is necessarily good but it's improving and hopefully will continue next year with Fox being a sophomore and Marc Staal preferably playing on Jupiter. CA/60 is 20th since Jan. 1st, FA/60 14th, SA/60 15th, xGA/60 15th, SCA/60 13th, HDCA/60 15th, PDO 24th.

Either way, if they finish this second half of the 2019-20 season as an average 50% Corsi team that would be a big success for me in terms of where the rebuild is at and a sign of things to come. Maybe trading Kreider tanks their stats, though.

 

[McRanger]

Not a gloat. More of a commentary. More of thinking that for all those that think he is an idiot, a moron and generally over his head, one would think that such things would be the case all of the time. Not just in lopsided losses.

I'm not sure if I have ever called him an idiot (its certainly possible, he's made some decisions that definitely qualify as idiotic) but I do think he is a poor coach. Or at least poor in the things that actually matter. And that certainly hasn't changed.

But even if the team was playing horrifically bad I doubt I would continue the argument, at least at the exhausting level it was at. Whats the point?

 

[True Blue]

I'm not sure if I have ever called him an idiot (its certainly possible, he's made some decisions that definitely qualify as idiotic) but I do think he is a poor coach. Or at least poor in the things that actually matter. And that certainly hasn't changed.

That is true. You have not. But that part was not directed at you specifically.

 

[NYR]

Pretty funny how lately there has been the sounds of crickets on this thread. Guess Quinn will become an idiot again after the tdl?

If crickets were shots against from the last game, there would be 42 of them.
Stay woke, Guy

 

[NYR]

Quinn kind of has an absurd amount of **** on his plate. Trying to make the team competitive with one of the youngest rosters in the league, ensuring development of top prospects...in addition to that he has to manage an 18-year-old #2OA pick, trade talks about one of his best players, and a 3-goalie situation involving both the future of the franchise and one of its legends. He's been pretty fortunate with the injury bug so far in his career, but still, that's a lot of **** to deal with for any coach, not just a sophomore.

Every coach has to deal with young players at some point and Quinn has been dealing with them his whole career.
That said..I disagree that this team is too young.

If they can beat some of the best teams in the league on any given night, then they should be able to follow suit with a bit more consistency.

Just read the links that you've posted and you can easily see that this system has a million holes in it.
There's no reason for it.

I feel like people are just looking to make this way more complicated than it is.

The system needs to be fixed asap!

If Quinn isn't smart enough to adjust, (which he's demonstrated over and over again) then get his ass outta here already..

 

[True Blue]

If crickets were shots against from the last game, there would be 42 of them.
Stay woke, Guy

Ahh yes. Your witticism is only preceded by your objective and refreshing perspective.

 

[NYR]

Ahh yes. Your witticism is only preceded by your objective and refreshing perspective.

I'm honestly trying to be objective but DQ just doesn't give me much reason to be.
Still waiting for somebody, anybody to convince me otherwise.
Nobody has been able to make me change my opinion thus far..

 

[Fataldogg]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

 

[NYR]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

EXACTLY!

 

[egelband]

I'm honestly trying to be objective but DQ just doesn't give me much reason to be.
Still waiting for somebody, anybody to convince me otherwise.
Nobody has been able to make me change my opinion thus far..

What are you looking for in a coach? I think the only thing this team is really lacking is consistently strong defense. They drop their defensive fight level here and there. But on the plus side they’re embracing ‘safe is death’ which i LOVE. I’m prepared to allow the occasional shit back check in exchange for a ripping offensive attack.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I like Quinn.

 

[Inferno]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

I guess the same could be said for most coaches who have elite players?

Luongo and Henrik for av immediately comes to mind.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I like Quinn.

DO YOU HAVE STATS TO SUPPORT THIS?!?!

 

[Off Sides]

Another game of not chasing behind their own net.

Another game where I am not sure if that was the Wild not going there or if it was the Rangers not following.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I guess the same could be said for most coaches who have elite players?

Luongo and Henrik for av immediately comes to mind.

Yeah another way to phrase it is that if the Rangers didn't have Panarin we would certainly have a bottom-3 roster in the NHL.

 

[Raspewtin]

the Rangers basically had a historically bad first 2.5 months and I don't think they'll be able to recover from it in the standings or in their underlying numbers.

fwiw they've had a legit turnaround (albeit an inconsistent one) since about mid-December and that's with quite a few absolute anchors still on the team.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

Wow its almost as if the personnel has a strong bearing on the perceived performance of a coach. Who knew?!!?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I was always under the impression that Quinn would be a bit of a seat warmer. A coach that could develop some younger players and instill a culture of hard work. I think he's done that. Im not sure what more people were expecting.

And I will say, the way he handled the goalie situation and named Shesterkin the #1 took a lot of balls. It's not easy to sideline a legend, and Quinn has navigated it with minimal drama. Kudos to him for that.

 

[Inferno]

the Rangers basically had a historically bad first 2.5 months and I don't think they'll be able to recover from it in the standings or in their underlying numbers.

fwiw they've had a legit turnaround (albeit an inconsistent one) since about mid-December and that's with quite a few absolute anchors still on the team.

I do think quite a bit of this is libor hajek. Once he got hurt and then sent down, it really helped. Anytime he was on the ice we just got caved in. I don't know the stats, I never look much at em, but it sure as hell felt like anytime he was on, we got destroyed.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I was always under the impression that Quinn would be a bit of a seat warmer. A coach that could develop some younger players and instill a culture of hard work. I think he's done that. Im not sure what more people were expecting.

And I will say, the way he handled the goalie situation and named Shesterkin the #1 took a lot of balls. It's not easy to sideline a legend, and Quinn has navigated it with minimal drama. Kudos to him for that.

Quinn has made some really tough calls. I can nitpick about certain things being tried too long (Howden in the top-9, etc.) but he's been very impressive in his commitment to playing his best players and sitting his worst, despite the optics. I'll never forget my reaction when Marc Staal was scratched on Girardi night: that's a cold mfer.

 

[True Blue]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

They would have been there no matter who is coach.

you really don’t see progress from the kids and the vets? Ok. Why even bother? Have same conversation over and your over again. I know, I know. If only Trots would be on board. Or Gallant. They would have this team in a playoff spot