Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[Raspewtin]

I do think quite a bit of this is libor hajek. Once he got hurt and then sent down, it really helped. Anytime he was on the ice we just got caved in. I don't know the stats, I never look much at em, but it sure as hell felt like anytime he was on, we got destroyed.

agreed. barring significant progress in his game I really don't want to see Hajek again.

also Howden needs to go to the AHL and never come back. Terrible terrible player.

 

[McRanger]

Quinn kind of has an absurd amount of **** on his plate. Trying to make the team competitive with one of the youngest rosters in the league, ensuring development of top prospects...in addition to that he has to manage an 18-year-old #2OA pick, trade talks about one of his best players, and a 3-goalie situation involving both the future of the franchise and one of its legends. He's been pretty fortunate with the injury bug so far in his career, but still, that's a lot of **** to deal with for any coach, not just a sophomore.

I have no doubt he is under a lot of stress. But lets be honest, he's a coach who has zero expectations to do anything other than find ice time for some young players and keep the team from imploding.

I'm pretty sure a coach who knows every decision can mean the difference between a handful of points and keeping or losing his job has more on his plate than a guy who can say "I think I will play Hajek on the top pair for 25 games... that should be funny to watch!" and not even remotely be on the hot seat.

Going by shot rates, the offense has improved more than the defense, but both are better. That doesn't mean the defense is necessarily good but it's improving and hopefully will continue next year with Fox being a sophomore and Marc Staal preferably playing on Jupiter. CA/60 is 20th since Jan. 1st, FA/60 14th, SA/60 15th, xGA/60 15th, SCA/60 13th, HDCA/60 15th, PDO 24th.

Either way, if they finish this second half of the 2019-20 season as an average 50% Corsi team that would be a big success for me in terms of where the rebuild is at and a sign of things to come. Maybe trading Kreider tanks their stats, though.

I don't doubt the numbers, but they are driven by a stretch around the end of the year and have since ticked back up.

5v5 Corsi numbers

Date		Range		CF	CA	CF%
1-Oct	25-Oct	Games	1 to 8	301	406	42.57
25-Oct	13-Nov	Games	9 to 16	313	410	43.29
13-Nov	29-Nov	Games	17 to 24	309	384	44.59
29-Nov	15-Dec	Games	25 to 32	315	392	44.55
15-Dec	3-Jan	Games	33 to 40	338	361	48.35
3-Jan	22-Jan	Games	41 to 48	388	371	51.12
22-Jan	13-Feb	Games	49 to 56	404	398	50.37

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

(Just as a reference the best CF teams 8 game averages are 410, 405, and 403 and the worst CF teams are 331, 326 and 303. The median is 351.
The best CA teams 8 game averages are 320, 327 and 329 and the worst CF teams are 389, 391 and 403. The median is 357. Not at all useful for a direct comparison but just a general idea of bad vs good)

Basically the shots for were awful, eventually went up to a bit to below average and then went bananas and then even more bananas while the shots against were awful before dropping nicely to a bit below average and is lately back near awful again.

So in terms of CA against, we've essentially gone from being atrocious, to very bad, to slightly below average and back to very bad and have labeled that growth.

The good news is that over the same 8 game blocks their xGA has dropped (from the high 17's-low 18's) to the low 15s and has stayed pretty steady with only a tiny recent jump. So that's an improvement. An improvement from almost indescribably bad to just bad, but an improvement nonetheless.

Anyway I don't doubt there is truth to the narrative that the team is "coming together" or whatever, I just think the improvements have more to do with making obvious roster moves (like Hajek) and the offense just being on fire than it does with anything else.

 

[McRanger]

I do think quite a bit of this is libor hajek. Once he got hurt and then sent down, it really helped. Anytime he was on the ice we just got caved in. I don't know the stats, I never look much at em, but it sure as hell felt like anytime he was on, we got destroyed.

It is. Though its less about Hajek being in the lineup than his position with Trouba on the top pair.

Quinn is hamstrung by having to keep Kakko in the top 9 and Hajek/Staal in the top 6 on D. But he adds to that problem by putting players like Howden with Kakko in the top 9 and giving Hajek a crazy role for a long time.

 

[aufheben]

I have no doubt he is under a lot of stress. But lets be honest, he's a coach who has zero expectations to do anything other than find ice time for some young players and keep the team from imploding.

I'm pretty sure a coach who knows every decision can mean the difference between a handful of points and keeping or losing his job has more on his plate than a guy who can say "I think I will play Hajek on the top pair for 25 games... that should be funny to watch!" and not even remotely be on the hot seat.




I don't doubt the numbers, but they are driven by a stretch around the end of the year and have since ticked back up.

5v5 Corsi numbers

Date		Range		CF	CA	CF%
1-Oct	25-Oct	Games	1 to 8	301	406	42.57
25-Oct	13-Nov	Games	9 to 16	313	410	43.29
13-Nov	29-Nov	Games	17 to 24	309	384	44.59
29-Nov	15-Dec	Games	25 to 32	315	392	44.55
15-Dec	3-Jan	Games	33 to 40	338	361	48.35
3-Jan	22-Jan	Games	41 to 48	388	371	51.12
22-Jan	13-Feb	Games	49 to 56	404	398	50.37

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

(Just as a reference the best CF teams 8 game averages are 410, 405, and 403 and the worst CF teams are 331, 326 and 303. The median is 351.
The best CA teams 8 game averages are 320, 327 and 329 and the worst CF teams are 389, 391 and 403. The median is 357. Not at all useful for a direct comparison but just a general idea of bad vs good)

Basically the shots for were awful, eventually went up to a bit to below average and then went bananas and then even more bananas while the shots against were awful before dropping nicely to a bit below average and is lately back near awful again.

So in terms of CA against, we've essentially gone from being atrocious, to very bad, to slightly below average and back to very bad and have labeled that growth.

The good news is that over the same 8 game blocks their xGA has dropped (from the high 17's-low 18's) to the low 15s and has stayed pretty steady with only a tiny recent jump. So that's an improvement. An improvement from almost indescribably bad to just bad, but an improvement nonetheless.

Anyway I don't doubt there is truth to the narrative that the team is "coming together" or whatever, I just think the improvements have more to do with making obvious roster moves (like Hajek) and the offense just being on fire than it does with anything else.

It's too soon to say for sure. They could take a step back next year, who knows. I agree about the importance of roster decisions, but those are also influenced by Quinn.

Really my main point is that—for whatever reasons—the team has been doing better for...probably two months now, yet I still see posters in here complaining as if the team doesn't look any different from the first week of October. It's like after all the debating, people are now just too heavily entrenched in their original viewpoints to budge.

 

[NYR]

What are you looking for in a coach? I think the only thing this team is really lacking is consistently strong defense. They drop their defensive fight level here and there. But on the plus side they’re embracing ‘safe is death’ which i LOVE. I’m prepared to allow the occasional **** back check in exchange for a ripping offensive attack.

I want a balance between offense and defense.
Hybrid system.. One in which that will end up frustrating the NYR in this very game tonight.
Offense doesn't completely dismiss defense as much as AS would love to indicate.
It's complete bullshit.
At the same time, you have to know when to sit back.
I want a coach that can adjust to the game in front of him as opposed to giving up 40+ shots against every game.
I want a coach that can delegate ice time accordingly as opposed to running 2 lines into the ground.
I want a coach that can make roster changes as needed.
Instead it takes this guy a year and a half, still no 4th line.
Shit..I could hang 5 Christmas tree air fresheners on a broom stick in front of the goalie and still provide a better defense than this.
No excuses for that at the NHL level..

 

[NYR]

22 SOG against in a game is a very reasonable and an obtainable target folks..

 

[NYR]

You see how quickly 6 SOG against turns into 33 SOG against with 15 mins still left in the 3rd?
Torts adjusted while DQ just bends over..SMH

 

[aufheben]

You see how quickly 6 SOG against turns into 33 SOG against with 15 mins still left in the 3rd?
Torts adjusted while DQ just bends over..SMH

Torts also blew the game calling for a change with no players close by resulting in a TMM penalty with 5:00 left in the game.

You're giving Torts credit for adjusting after a bad period when the Rangers did the same exact thing after the 2nd period. The Rangers were the better team for 2/3 periods tonight.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

20 foot player Zibanejad has turned into quite the stud under Quinn.

 

[Leetch3]

Not a fan of Quinn. And frankly, if Panarin wasnt signed in the off season and wasnt having a Hart caliber year, there is a good chance the Rangers would be bottom-3 in the NHL and contending for another lottery pick.

Panarin is the reason he still has a job in the grand scheme of things.

such a ridiculous point...so a team is better because of their best player, do they also win if the goalie stops the puck?

and if we were in dead last quinn's job still wouldn't be on the line. we are rebuilding and being bad is part of the package.

 

[Leetch3]

20 foot player Zibanejad has turned into quite the stud under Quinn.

pretty amazing to do that in spite of quinn trying to ruin him

 

[JHS]

Torts also blew the game calling for a change with no players close by resulting in a TMM penalty with 5:00 left in the game.

You're giving Torts credit for adjusting after a bad period when the Rangers did the same exact thing after the 2nd period. The Rangers were the better team for 2/3 periods tonight.

This shows how little you know about the way line changes work. Coaches call out the next line virtually immediately after the current line on the ice is sent out.( unless at face offs where matchups can be made.) The players jump on the ice by calling out numbers for guys they will replace( even more likely at top levels they just say “ I got first guy off.”)

This is not Peewee hockey where the coach is screaming for his players to come off the ice and change. They are NHL players— they skate to the bench on their own.

Too many men on the ice penalties are caused by the players at NHL level and likely poor communication- not the coach calling for a line change.

 

[NYR]

.

 

[Ghost of jas]

20 foot player Zibanejad has turned into quite the stud under Quinn.

Who could have seen that coming?!

 

[duhmetreE]

He never plays the 'hot-hand'. ( At least he realized Shesty is the #1 ) Seems out of touch with in-game moves.

Buch should be getting time over Strome. We have too many RHS too begin with on the PP

 

[Kakko]

Some of these complaints, lol.

Playing his top players a lot because the 4th line sucks? Not even considering that your top players should play a lot, imo, what is he supposed to do? He has 9 or 10 NHL forwards. Maybe if Kravtsov and Andersson could cut in the NHL, he wouldn't have the issue. Should he ask Gorton to trade for good 4th liners?

The PP? They're 7th in the league. In front of them? The McDavid Draisaitls, last year's Stanley Cup finalists, who are both leading their conference, the all offense no defense Leafs, the best team in the league (Tampa), and Vancouver. Any of those teams, except maybe Vancouver would be ahead of us, no matter who the coach is.

There's valid complaints about Quinn. Pick your battles.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Rangers have the top PP in the league since December.

What are we upset that they don't have a bigger gap between them and #2?

 

[NYR]

Oh I see.. So apparently it's Quinn that's responsible for Zibs production.
I guess he's also the reason Panarin is having a good season.
That's weak as hell but..Got it

 

[True Blue]

[QUOTE="NYR, post: 170314201, member:]
That's weak as hell but..Got it [/QUOTE]
So that’s weak? Ok. You DO understand that both Panarin& ZBad are having their best seasons by far?

So let me get this straight. Quinn is responsible for all the bad you see from younger players. And has zero to do with players having their best seasons?

got it. Crystal clear. What was that about? Weak? That’s was the term, yes?

 

[NYR]

[QUOTE="NYR, post: 170314201, member:]
That's weak as hell but..Got it

So that’s weak? Ok. You DO understand that both Panarin& ZBad are having their best seasons by far?

So let me get this straight. Quinn is responsible for all the bad you see from younger players. And has zero to do with players having their best seasons?

got it. Crystal clear. What was that about? Weak? That’s was the term, yes?[/QUOTE]

TB.. You're completely twisted.
Zib and Panarin would be doing just fine under nearly any coach in the league.
The younger players however, would be doing a lot better under ANY coach in the league.
You just don't get it and I don't expect that to change anytime soon..

 

[aufheben]

This shows how little you know about the way line changes work. Coaches call out the next line virtually immediately after the current line on the ice is sent out.( unless at face offs where matchups can be made.) The players jump on the ice by calling out numbers for guys they will replace( even more likely at top levels they just say “ I got first guy off.”)

This is not Peewee hockey where the coach is screaming for his players to come off the ice and change. They are NHL players— they skate to the bench on their own.

Too many men on the ice penalties are caused by the players at NHL level and likely poor communication- not the coach calling for a line change.

Don't shoot the messenger, I was just reading the BJ's board after they lost the game (not their only gripe with him after that game either.) I usually do that, for perspective. Literally every fan base complains abut their coach.

No one has any trouble ripping into Quinn for all the TMM penalties we've taken in the last 18 months.

 

[Irishguy42]

Don't shoot the messenger, I was just reading the BJ's board after they lost the game (not their only gripe with him after that game either.) I usually do that, for perspective. Literally every fan base complains abut their coach.

No one has any trouble ripping into Quinn for all the TMM penalties we've taken in the last 18 months.

The grass is always greener...

 

[NYR]

Don't shoot the messenger, I was just reading the BJ's board after they lost the game (not their only gripe with him after that game either.) I usually do that, for perspective. Literally every fan base complains abut their coach.

No one has any trouble ripping into Quinn for all the TMM penalties we've taken in the last 18 months.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NYR]

The grass is always greener...

True but in this case you gotta bring in Laviolette.
It's a no brainer.. He brought 3 different teams to the finals...

 

[SA16]

agreed. barring significant progress in his game I really don't want to see Hajek again.

also Howden needs to go to the AHL and never come back. Terrible terrible player.

Not exactly surprising that this turnaround started mid-Dec when Howden stopped getting 15+ mins/game.