David Desharnais part X - Together We Rise, Together We Fall

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm convinced that some people in this board don't watch the games or don't understand the game.

...maybe, but I think it's more just a desperate attempt to deflect negative attention from their favorite player...just like Therrien does when Wee Man is mentioned...

 

[Hoople]

...Subban's still scoring, Top 10 in scoring for defensemen, making plays, and has been a stud defensively...where's li'l Davey in #1 Centre scoring for the League??...and that's all he can do...hence the reason he lost (hopefully permanently) his job...so...

Last season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP was 6.26.

This season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP is 5.11.

Do people really watch the game?

 

[Jigger77]

Last season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP was 6.26.

This season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP is 5.11.

Do people really watch the game?

How much of that is PK and how much of that is the entire world and they dog knowing what the Habs go-to play is on the PP?

 

[Whitesnake]

Last season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP was 6.26.

This season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP is 5.11.

Do people really watch the game?

Since DD absolutely refuse to shoot, it's much easier for a PK to defend against our PP. You actually only have 4 possible shooters instead of 5. So it's 4 on 4 on the shot possibilities, and DD on the outside clearly not interested in doing anything else than that. And once that's figured out, you concentrate even more on the most dangerous weapon which is PK.

Last year, DD was at a dumb 1.21 shot per game. So far, he's at an even more stupid 1.13 shot. Teams now know he's not going to be a threat whatsoever. They might not have known it yet last year, they know for sure now. And that is TOTALLY on DD. Unless Therrien is totally lying, everybody and their mother keeps telling him to shoot more and just don't want to do it. For that, I have no pity for him on that regard. He brought that to himself.

I still believe that "some" people are exagerrating as far as he's concerned. But nobody exagérâtes when they say that he's not right now a top 6 and not a PP player. They are totally right. Then, it will be our call to figure out if he should be in our plans with the type of team we want to build and the prospects that are coming. If everybody come close to the progression that we hope they will, guys like Hudon, Ghetto, Reway and Lehkonen will be pushing DD out of this team. No matter if he does a "okay to good" job in any other roles than top 6 and PP. And at one point, it might not even be a criticism towards DD, just an acknowledgment that we have better options everywhere else. I still believe this guy is NHL material. With the number of teams there are, he could most definately help a new team like Vegas or I have no doubt that Québec would most definately take him. Or any other team that don't have to deal with the size of their team being too small. He could be fine on a 3rd line with less expectations. But OUR expectations right now is to become a great team and use that window to get a Cup and soon.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Last season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP was 6.26.

This season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP is 5.11.

Do people really watch the game?

...and still you have nothing to offer except "It's not li'l Davey's fault, it's (insert player here)'s fault"...that well's run dry, amigo; even Therrien (probably with much pressure exerted from above) is starting to see it, hence Wee Man's demotion...was Desharnais the entire offensive problem; absolutely not, Therrien's predictable "system" is...but that doesn't absolve li'l Davey's usage of being a big part of the problem...he's not a Top 6 centre, he shouldn't be anywhere near either of the top 2 units of the PP (unless he can figure it out on the wing), and despite you and a couple others riding hard on the rose-coloured-glasses, he's not good defensively, mostly due to the ridiculous ease with which he's pushed off the puck/outmuscled by bigger players (see: pretty much everyone)...you can blame PK, Patches, PAP, Gally, Therrien, Bergevin, the refs, Bettman, the FLQ, Batman, Jesus, Bigfoot, whomever...the only person you're fooling is yourself...

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Last season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP was 6.26.

This season, PK's GF On/60 during the PP is 5.11.

Do people really watch the game?

Yes, you should too.

Comparing DD and PK is just riduculous. Even if I agree PK is not having a good season so far, PK still brings a lotttt more on the ice than DD. PK brings offense, defense, physicality and leadership. He CAN make the difference by himself. He's a game changer. He's a Norris winner. DD makes passes, for one player. THAT'S IT.

They don't play the same position, they don't have the same role.. so please stop using PK's performance to make excuses for DD. You're the only one who keeps bringing PK in a David Desharnais thread. It's completely stupid and irrelevant.

 

[Mrb1p]

Last night I almost called Ron Fournier to tell him he was a freaking uneducated xenophobic rat. I really should've.

Starts at 7:30. (In french)

http://www.985fm.ca/em/bonsoir-les-sportifs-1.html


Should this guy be on air ? Really ? This is an incredibly xenophobic discourse and it's also incredibly biased. Ignorant, ignorant and ignorant.

Why?

 

[Monctonscout]

Which link is it? There are several.

The most recent one.

Kind of weird that Fournier talks about winning a cup and without Quebecers it wouldn't be a like a cup win...lol....I could care less..

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

The most recent one.

Kind of weird that Fournier talks about winning a cup and without Quebecers it wouldn't be a like a cup win...lol....I could care less..

What the hell..

He should go cheer for the team that has the most quebecers in it then.

 

[Andy]

The segment is really embarrassing. The guy isn't even making a hockey argument.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Ron, Ron, Ron...

 

[Brainiac]

Ron being Ron. He's just catering to his audience.

 

[Whitesnake]

Last night I almost called Ron Fournier to tell him he was a freaking uneducated xenophobic rat. I really should've.

Starts at 7:30. (In french)

http://www.985fm.ca/em/bonsoir-les-sportifs-1.html


Should this guy be on air ? Really ? This is an incredibly xenophobic discourse and it's also incredibly biased. Ignorant, ignorant and ignorant.

Why?

Geez, I thought that was going to be way more than what you are implying. So it was Don Cherryesque. Fine. A guy Canada LOVES as he’s popular everywhere he goes…except here of course. Well same for Fournier. He loves his locals. And has a tough time seeing our team being succesful without Quebecers on it. Well he is from the old guard that had seen this Habs team being filled with « gars de chez nous ». And in the end, he gives a show. He can’t for the love of god REALLY wonder if GAGNER is what is the most important thing. He can’t. He can’t just be fine enough with our team just « working hard » even if it means never win anything. He can’t and wouldn’t as he’d be the first one to say how bad this team is despite working hard. I guess that at one point what he’s looking is a way to have a better ratio of Quebecers on the team. And if we could find the right ones, I have nothing against that myself. Though, while it seemed that this is what he was implying with his tirade on Quebecers, somehow I didn’t feel as he was protecting DD that much. So, let’s not trade DD ‘cause injuries could happen. Okay….so that was his biggest defense for DD? Seems to me that even if he loves DD, the day he comes with that to defend him means that even him recognize the limitations. He goes on by saying that based on Pacioretty’s offense, that DD might not be that bad…..but then didn’t seem too sure about that either.

So in the end, it’s a guy from a generation who had just seen Jean Béliveau die, that had seen one of the best teams in the history of hockey play with a whole lot of gars de chez nous that misses that time and era. I guess he should realize that it’s more difficult nowadays. And frankly, he's not a TRUE fan if he REALLY wouldn’t like to see our team win a cup without Quebecers. If that is really what he thinks, it means he’s not a fan of this team. He’s a fan of what this team represented. Mind you, I also hope that at one point we could add some guys to prolong the tradition. But not at any cost. Certainly not at a cost of keeping bad players on our team. Not at a cost of losing a trade because we think that speaking french is a greater achievement than putting pucks in the net. But if you have a chance to scout that league and get a guy nobody talks about because that league is underappreciated, I say do it. And be ready for any opportunity that makes sense. Everything else is all about winning. And Fournier knows that even if, in the end, for the purpose of the show, he wants to talk about that again. Funny thing is that he said it himself….when we are winning, everything is fine. When we are not, we are looking for some problems. Habs have a tougher time lately…..and he goes on with that speech…..If that’s not clear enough what type of persona he is…..not sure what I can tell you.

 

[peate]

C'est sur, c'est sur, c'est sur, c'est sur.

WTF Ron! How can anyone listen to that for any length of time? Thing is, a lot of people probably agree with him and he brings in the $$$.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

C'est sur, c'est sur, c'est sur, c'est sur.

WTF Ron! How can anyone listen to that for any length of time? Thing is, a lot of people probably agree with him and he brings in the $$$.

A quick look at the comments on RDS and many francophones agree that DD has no future with this organization. Anyone fan who is actually interested in the success of this organization can see it, whether you're Franco or Anglo.

 

[Runner77]

A quick look at the comments on RDS and many francophones agree that DD has no future with this organization. Anyone fan who is actually interested in the success of this organization can see it, whether you're Franco or Anglo.

And that's how Bergevin is managing the team. From a in interview Bergevin gave about a week ago:

Pour ce qui est des joueurs, à talent égal, c’est certain qu’on va préférer un francophone. Mais on est ici pour gagner. Si un Ontarien, un Américain ou un Suédois est le meilleur joueur disponible, c’est lui que je vais choisir. »

 

[DAChampion]

People are Canadiens fans, not hockey fans, obviously.

 

[Natey]

...Subban's still scoring, Top 10 in scoring for defensemen, making plays, and has been a stud defensively...where's li'l Davey in #1 Centre scoring for the League??...and that's all he can do...hence the reason he lost (hopefully permanently) his job...so...

He's not scoring on the PP. He's been awful on the PP. However, everyone has been awful.

 

[radicalcenter]

People are Canadiens fans, not hockey fans, obviously.

and some are Québecois fans, not Canadiens fans

 

[DAChampion]

Either way the Habs are a social institution here and a business, so the case to include local players is solid.

 

[Hoople]

Yes, you should too.

Comparing DD and PK is just riduculous. Even if I agree PK is not having a good season so far, PK still brings a lotttt more on the ice than DD. PK brings offense, defense, physicality and leadership. He CAN make the difference by himself. He's a game changer. He's a Norris winner. DD makes passes, for one player. THAT'S IT.

They don't play the same position, they don't have the same role.. so please stop using PK's performance to make excuses for DD. You're the only one who keeps bringing PK in a David Desharnais thread. It's completely stupid and irrelevant.

I am NOT comparing DD to PK.

PK is the Habs most important player if we are to win a Cup. Totally different than David Desharnais.

My entire point is our impact player...PK Subban...the $9 million DMan...is having a ****** start to the season. Even you agree with that. Yet HE gets a pass.

This is why I dont really care for fanboys.

And I have stated multiple times that I dont think DD should be on this roster. He is too damn small.

 

[Hoople]

Since DD absolutely refuse to shoot, it's much easier for a PK to defend against our PP. You actually only have 4 possible shooters instead of 5. So it's 4 on 4 on the shot possibilities, and DD on the outside clearly not interested in doing anything else than that. And once that's figured out, you concentrate even more on the most dangerous weapon which is PK.

Last year, DD was at a dumb 1.21 shot per game. So far, he's at an even more stupid 1.13 shot. Teams now know he's not going to be a threat whatsoever. They might not have known it yet last year, they know for sure now. And that is TOTALLY on DD. Unless Therrien is totally lying, everybody and their mother keeps telling him to shoot more and just don't want to do it. For that, I have no pity for him on that regard. He brought that to himself.

I still believe that "some" people are exagerrating as far as he's concerned. But nobody exagérâtes when they say that he's not right now a top 6 and not a PP player. They are totally right. Then, it will be our call to figure out if he should be in our plans with the type of team we want to build and the prospects that are coming. If everybody come close to the progression that we hope they will, guys like Hudon, Ghetto, Reway and Lehkonen will be pushing DD out of this team. No matter if he does a "okay to good" job in any other roles than top 6 and PP. And at one point, it might not even be a criticism towards DD, just an acknowledgment that we have better options everywhere else. I still believe this guy is NHL material. With the number of teams there are, he could most definately help a new team like Vegas or I have no doubt that Québec would most definately take him. Or any other team that don't have to deal with the size of their team being too small. He could be fine on a 3rd line with less expectations. But OUR expectations right now is to become a great team and use that window to get a Cup and soon.

Since you brought up shot totals per game....

Looking at the stats last week (havent looked at it since then), PK Subban's shots per game have dropped 40% below his shots per game during his Norris season.

However, that gets ignored or dismissed or shifted.

DD!!!!!

 

[WeThreeKings]

Since you brought up shot totals per game....

Looking at the stats last week (havent looked at it since then), PK Subban's shots per game have dropped 40% below his shots per game during his Norris season.

However, that gets ignored or dismissed or shifted.

DD!!!!!

You want Subban to shoot into legs and have breakaways? He won't shoot as much because there isn't players on the ice making other teams pay for over playing Subban..

I wish we still had Wizniewski.

 

[Runner77]

Either way the Habs are a social institution here and a business, so the case to include local players is solid.

I don't think anyone is questioning their inclusion. However, Fournier's approach doesn't take into consideration the decision-making that leads to which French Canadians end up on the team. Should always be based on talent first. With that in mind, there are certainly many local players around the league that could be a fit here, if Bergevin is able to get them for fair market value or less.

 

[smon]

Either way the Habs are a social institution here and a business, so the case to include local players is solid.

Yes but what people like Ron don't understand is that maybe in the old days francophone players were clamouring to play for the Habs. The team always has had some local quotient in the lineup even in recent times anyway. The underlying problem Fournier and co. have is that we don't see francophone star players here. But in recent times francophone stars like Briere (Flyers signing as a star, not the post-buyout one!), Lecavalier, and Martin Lapointe have all passed on the chance to sign here as free agents despite getting lucrative offers. Look at Martin St Louis - Laval kid and he demanded a trade only to New York! The players primarily care about getting maximum value and so the Canadiens, as an institution, team or whatever, have to do the same to thrive in the standings....which puts fans in the seats.

Bergevin has it right on. If there are two equals fine prefer the local but we can't just build a team premised around keeping francophone players in the NHL.

It is something to be cognizant of but it can't drive the team's decision making. I think a good example of the right balance is this. When Gauthier foolishly made the unilingual Randy Cunneyworth the head coach to replace Jacques Martin, he was rightly criticized. But I would say that is because he should have acted quicker and hired Kirk Muller instead...sure Muller was an anglophone, but he was probably better qualified and given his history here I'm sure he would have been accepted if he promised to learn French (he actually promised to do so when named captain but Savard flipped him for Turgeon soon after anyway).