David Booth III (MOD Warning Post #123)

[M2Beezy]

I have a question about buyouts if we buyout booth does it mean we can never buy out another player? Cause i heard a team is only allowd to have two?

 

[Tim Calhoun]

I have a question about buyouts if we buyout booth does it mean we can never buy out another player? Cause i heard a team is only allowd to have two?

That's only compliance buyouts.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-compliance-buyouts-work

 

[DarrenX]

Keep shaking your head and missing the point.

You can't just include his whole career in order to elevate his accomplishments. The pre-concussion David Booth who relied solely on athleticism is gone. He's no longer the .5 PPG player ever since he's come to Van because of the dude's inability to adapt and evolve.

The David Booth we saw at the end of last season looked (and scored) a lot like pre-concussion David Booth IMHO. And Booth has had long stretches of similiarly high-quality .5PPG play in Vancouver (whenever he's not recovering from having a knee/ankle blown out). People have very short memories.

There is no need to buy Booth out to "make space for a younger player". If the younger (cheaper) player beats Booth for a spot, great. Worst case scenario is Booth goes to the minors and eats 3m of our cap, which we aren't spending anyway. Best case scenario is that Booth doesn't suffer another major lower body injury, in which case we likely get 40 points out of him.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Frankly I'm not very confident the core will change, which is unfortunate, but that isn't necessarily a good reason to get rid of Booth.

Retaining Booth doesn't mean he'll take the spot of a younger player or another reclamation project. Whoever plays better and earns the spot will get it. Like I said in my original post: If he plays well, it's a nice bonus. If he doesn't, who cares, he's off the books after next season.

Sadly the booth situation epitomizes how much trouble the Canucks are in.

Yes we have an aging core that can't get it done and our drafting has been so poor that a 9 goal scorer is better than the replacement?

 

[kanucks25]

Sadly the booth situation epitomizes how much trouble the Canucks are in.

Yes we have an aging core that can't get it done and our drafting has been so poor that a 9 goal scorer is better than the replacement?

Yeah, don't know whether to laugh or cry.


But I guess that's what happens when decide to rebuild/retool 2 years too late. We're almost like the new Calgary except we have more roster assets to trade (if they waive).

 

[dwarf]

I am on the keep Booth train. So long as we are planning on tanking next year. If we don't improve our goaltending via trade or free agency, I don't believe we will be a playoff team.

I liked Booth's effort in the late stages of last season, but the season was over at that point. Players trying hard when there is nothing left to play for, do not impress me. If he was getting it done in Jan when the games were on the line for the team, I would be a fan.

If the Canucks go after, and get Miller and maybe Stastny, I am all over buying out Booth for more free agent help, that will make a difference when the games matter.

With that said, I do like our goalies. I just think its very risky to run with so little NHL experience in net. Also, there is a genuine possibility that Booth was still hurt and couldn't get it done until the late stages of last season. Once again, do I want to take a chance on that.

I am fine with these risks if we are cool to tank for McDavid. Which is what I personally would love to see. I feel this team needs a mini retool. And if you are going to have a bad year, might as well be when there is a generational talent available.

 

[F A N]

There is no need to buy Booth out to "make space for a younger player". If the younger (cheaper) player beats Booth for a spot, great. Worst case scenario is Booth goes to the minors and eats 3m of our cap, which we aren't spending anyway. Best case scenario is that Booth doesn't suffer another major lower body injury, in which case we likely get 40 points out of him.

I hear this a lot but I think looking at whether or not to buy out Booth based on a needs analysis is unconstructive. The Canucks look like they are still looking to retool. That means that the Canucks need to balance between competing next season and the future. As I said before, I believe Booth when healthy can return to being a 20 goal 40 point guy, but unless say Kesler gets traded, Booth doesn't seem to be the right fit here, similar to how Raymond was here. I just don't think Booth contributes much in helping the Canucks win so sometimes the sooner you move on the better.

When you are trying to retool, you got to look further down the line. Booth is an established NHL player who has the tools to score 20+ goals in this league. If Booth was healthy to start the season, Kassian might not have beaten him out at training camp. Surely, the likes of Jensen or Horvat might not beat out Booth next season. But on a team with one eye to the future that's not how you look at it. Those extra games or minutes that you're giving to Jensen, Kassian, or Horvat because Booth isn't there next season will benefit the Canucks down the line.

 

[kanucks25]

I hear this a lot but I think looking at whether or not to buy out Booth based on a needs analysis is unconstructive. The Canucks look like they are still looking to retool. That means that the Canucks need to balance between competing next season and the future. As I said before, I believe Booth when healthy can return to being a 20 goal 40 point guy, but unless say Kesler gets traded, Booth doesn't seem to be the right fit here, similar to how Raymond was here. I just don't think Booth contributes much in helping the Canucks win so sometimes the sooner you move on the better.

When you are trying to retool, you got to look further down the line. Booth is an established NHL player who has the tools to score 20+ goals in this league. If Booth was healthy to start the season, Kassian might not have beaten him out at training camp. Surely, the likes of Jensen or Horvat might not beat out Booth next season. But on a team with one eye to the future that's not how you look at it. Those extra games or minutes that you're giving to Jensen, Kassian, or Horvat because Booth isn't there next season will benefit the Canucks down the line.

Putting a young player in the NHL when he isn't ready can hinder their development.

If they are truly ready and earn their spot, Booth won't take their ice-time. Management and coaches would be stupid to favor Booth over our future core guys, they wouldn't do that.

Keep Booth just in case we need a spot filled, there's no harm. He can be scratched if we have enough good players.

Booth is virtually a free asset because his cap is irrelevant. It would be a bad business decision to get rid of an asset for no return when it's completely unnecessary to do so.

 

[F A N]

Putting a young player in the NHL when he isn't ready can hinder their development.

If they are truly ready and earn their spot, Booth won't take their ice-time. Management and coaches would be stupid to favor Booth over our future core guys, they wouldn't do that.

Keep Booth just in case we need a spot filled, there's no harm. He can be scratched if we have enough good players.

Booth is virtually a free asset because his cap is irrelevant. It would be a bad business decision to get rid of an asset for no return when it's completely unnecessary to do so.

There is a difference between not being NHL ready (especially physically) and not ready to assume a prime role. Kassian wasn't ready to assume a prime role this past season but he was NHL ready. As soon as he was given steady ice time and steady minutes he begin to blossom. A lot of times young guys need to given minutes and a chance to make mistakes and not be looking over their shoulder. When there is an established veteran ahead of him, coaches tend to favor veterans.

It's fine and dandy to say everyone needs to earn a spot but you got to balance that with putting a player in the position to succeed. You think Jensen would play that many games with the Canucks if he was put on the 4th line and given 7 minutes a night? Take Stamkos first year. Was he not ready for the NHL or was he not a good fit as a bottom 6 center playing with scrubs? Take Gustav Nyquist, he started the season in the minors because he didn't have to clear waivers and he didn't get his opportunity until Alfredsson got injured. Sometimes you just got to clear the way for a young player to grow into the role. At the end of the day Booth averaged more minutes than Kassian.

Like I said, the chances of guys like Jensen and Horvat being clearly better than Booth next season is slim. But in the short run I don't think the Canucks will win any more games giving Jensen Booth's minutes, while in the long run it may pay dividends.

 

[kanucks25]

There is a difference between not being NHL ready (especially physically) and not ready to assume a prime role. Kassian wasn't ready to assume a prime role this past season but he was NHL ready. As soon as he was given steady ice time and steady minutes he begin to blossom. A lot of times young guys need to given minutes and a chance to make mistakes and not be looking over their shoulder. When there is an established veteran ahead of him, coaches tend to favor veterans.

It's fine and dandy to say everyone needs to earn a spot but you got to balance that with putting a player in the position to succeed. You think Jensen would play that many games with the Canucks if he was put on the 4th line and given 7 minutes a night? Take Stamkos first year. Was he not ready for the NHL or was he not a good fit as a bottom 6 center playing with scrubs? Take Gustav Nyquist, he started the season in the minors because he didn't have to clear waivers and he didn't get his opportunity until Alfredsson got injured. Sometimes you just got to clear the way for a young player to grow into the role. At the end of the day Booth averaged more minutes than Kassian.

Like I said, the chances of guys like Jensen and Horvat being clearly better than Booth next season is slim. But in the short run I don't think the Canucks will win any more games giving Jensen Booth's minutes, while in the long run it may pay dividends.

I don't really disagree with anything you've said here but nothing you've said refutes my post prior to this one.

I'm all for putting young guys in a position to succeed. For example, give Horvat a chance at 2LW over Booth and see how he does. But what if he's not "ready" (any definition) to play in the NHL and it's best for his development to be sent back down?

Now what? You've already bought out Booth and your young guy can't play. I guess it's time to move Higgins up to 2LW, Sestito up to 3LW and bring up Archibald for 4LW. Yay.


Or

You keep Booth and give Horvat a try anyway. If he doesn't work out, that's fine, you know you have a back-up plan in Booth who is a legit NHLer.

There is also that extremely slim possibility that Booth actually has a good start to the season and we can ship him off at the deadline for small return (like a late pick or something).

 

[F A N]

I don't really disagree with anything you've said here but nothing you've said refutes my post prior to this one.

I'm all for putting young guys in a position to succeed. For example, give Horvat a chance at 2LW over Booth and see how he does. But what if he's not "ready" (any definition) to play in the NHL and it's best for his development to be sent back down?

Now what? You've already bought out Booth and your young guy can't play. I guess it's time to move Higgins up to 2LW, Sestito up to 3LW and bring up Archibald for 4LW. Yay.

First off, it would be foolish to pencil Booth in as the team's 2nd line winger given what he has shown the past few years. So I am not sure what you mean by moving Higgins up to 2LW when that's the role he has been playing on this team the past couple of years. Higgins IS ahead of Booth on the depth chart and has been ahead of Booth both under AV and Torts. The chances are that a new coach will play Higgins ahead of Booth, especially if Kesler is still here.

I also think Horvat is a different discussion altogether. He's one of those guys where he's either ready for the NHL or he's not. If he is, the Canucks aren't going to have a problem with him playing 4th line C or 3rd line wing. My guess is that Horvat is already a better defensive player than Booth and given the limited offense that Booth has brought on the 3rd line, I don't think too many of us would have a problem with giving Horvat or Jensen that 3rd line role over Booth.

The Canucks need to change the makeup of the forwards up front and if no trades are made, the hope is that at least one of Kassian and Jensen can fill a top 6 role. Booth simply doesn't figure to be a top 6 solution and he's really not a good 3rd line option. On this team, he keeps getting moved down the lineup. Again, the point is Booth isn't a good fit on this team. He can easily be replaced with a legitimate 3rd line player like Ott or a guy like Santo.

 

[94eleven]

I think you have to buy out Booth. Cap space is an asset, and one that could be utilized at the deadline as a buyer if things go well or it can be used to take a crappy expiring contract from a playoff team so they can make an acquisition (at a cost of course). Either way that cap space and spot in the lineup for a younger player would be more beneficial to the Canucks than 40 points from Booth.

I will be quite disappointed if the Canucks go into the season without having used their final compliance buyout.

 

[kanucks25]

First off, it would be foolish to pencil Booth in as the team's 2nd line winger given what he has shown the past few years. So I am not sure what you mean by moving Higgins up to 2LW when that's the role he has been playing on this team the past couple of years. Higgins IS ahead of Booth on the depth chart and has been ahead of Booth both under AV and Torts. The chances are that a new coach will play Higgins ahead of Booth, especially if Kesler is still here.

I also think Horvat is a different discussion altogether. He's one of those guys where he's either ready for the NHL or he's not. If he is, the Canucks aren't going to have a problem with him playing 4th line C or 3rd line wing. My guess is that Horvat is already a better defensive player than Booth and given the limited offense that Booth has brought on the 3rd line, I don't think too many of us would have a problem with giving Horvat or Jensen that 3rd line role over Booth.

The Canucks need to change the makeup of the forwards up front and if no trades are made, the hope is that at least one of Kassian and Jensen can fill a top 6 role. Booth simply doesn't figure to be a top 6 solution and he's really not a good 3rd line option. On this team, he keeps getting moved down the lineup. Again, the point is Booth isn't a good fit on this team. He can easily be replaced with a legitimate 3rd line player like Ott or a guy like Santo.

Unfortunately, Booth might have to be our 2nd line winger because that's just how awful our forward group is. I obviously like Higgins over Booth, but Higgins is a better fit on the 3rd line (checking line, with Hansen and Matthias/Santorelli or something).

Worst-case scenario, you put Booth on the 4th line with Richardson (some chemistry there) instead of Sestito who shouldn't even be in the NHL.

So to reiterate, throwing Booth away for nothing just isn't wise. Healthy scratch him for 82 games if you need to, but don't get rid of an asset for nothing.

You can pretty much pencil Jensen and Kassian in as top-6 wingers, with Burrows likely being the 4th.

Horvat has been great defensively in junior but that doesn't mean he'll be capable of playing against good forwards in the NHL in a non-offensive/bottom-6 role. There are very few players, like Couturier, that can be effective in their own zone right away.

I think you have to buy out Booth. Cap space is an asset, and one that could be utilized at the deadline as a buyer if things go well or it can be used to take a crappy expiring contract from a playoff team so they can make an acquisition (at a cost of course). Either way that cap space and spot in the lineup for a younger player would be more beneficial to the Canucks than 40 points from Booth.

I will be quite disappointed if the Canucks go into the season without having used their final compliance buyout.

We'll be going into next season with like 4M or 5M in space, probably more if Kesler is traded. Cap space isn't an issue, it shouldn't considered a factor when contemplating a Booth buyout.

 

[LaVar]

GMJB even said the goal was to be a playoff team every year..

If he wants that to happen, we need to buyout Booth and use that cap space towards someone useful..

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I am on the keep Booth train. So long as we are planning on tanking next year. If we don't improve our goaltending via trade or free agency, I don't believe we will be a playoff team.

I liked Booth's effort in the late stages of last season, but the season was over at that point. Players trying hard when there is nothing left to play for, do not impress me. If he was getting it done in Jan when the games were on the line for the team, I would be a fan.

If the Canucks go after, and get Miller and maybe Stastny, I am all over buying out Booth for more free agent help, that will make a difference when the games matter.

With that said, I do like our goalies. I just think its very risky to run with so little NHL experience in net. Also, there is a genuine possibility that Booth was still hurt and couldn't get it done until the late stages of last season. Once again, do I want to take a chance on that.

I am fine with these risks if we are cool to tank for McDavid. Which is what I personally would love to see. I feel this team needs a mini retool. And if you are going to have a bad year, might as well be when there is a generational talent available.

... Goaltending is the least of the Nucks worries. Forwards can't score at all and defense is porous and has been quite poor at moving the puck...

 

[kanucks25]

GMJB even said the goal was to be a playoff team every year..

If he wants that to happen, we need to buyout Booth and use that cap space towards someone useful..

Every GM says their goal is to make the playoffs every year, that doesn't mean you go out and overpay for overrated free agents to try to make it happen.

The FA crop is very weak this summer. The few useful players will be grossly overvalued and their contracts will be anchors soon enough. We need to get younger and there are very few useful FAs under the age of 30 that will come at a fair price.

... Goaltending is the least of the Nucks worries. Forwards can't score at all and defense is porous and has been quite poor at moving the puck...

Agreed. I don't think the defense is that bad, but it definitely hurts not having a puck-moving skater like Ehrhoff.

Scoring more would take pressure off the defense. It's always nice playing with the lead, too.

 

[M2Beezy]

That's only compliance buyouts.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-compliance-buyouts-work

O thanks! So if i read that corectly we can only compliant buyout one more guy ever? Then after that if we buy out another player we retane part of the salary based on his age?

 

[kanucks25]

O thanks! So if i read that corectly we can only compliant buyout one more guy ever? Then after that if we buy out another player we retane part of the salary based on his age?

We only have one more compliance buyout (used the first one on Ballard last year). If we don't use it this summer, it's gone.

After that, you can only do regular buyouts which come with a cap penalty. You can see the buyout penalty for every player on capgeek.com:

Go to anyone's player page and click the green "Calculate Ordinary-Course Buyout" button near the top.

 

[cc]

I say keep booth. he was a decent forward down the stretch and the Canucks don't really have anything to lose by keeping him and playing him. With any luck, his play improves that they can move him for something useful like a draft pick.

 

[dwarf]

... Goaltending is the least of the Nucks worries. Forwards can't score at all and defense is porous and has been quite poor at moving the puck...

Possibly. I think coaching might be able to cure all the ails this team has. Guess time will tell.

 

[KDizzle]

http://instagram.com/p/o3istLHo-k/

 

[arttk]

http://instagram.com/p/o3istLHo-k/

Did not see that coming.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

He's just trying to find new ways to injure himself so the Canucks can't buy him out.

 

[Nuckles]

Our team must now own the record for most ruptured testicles.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

http://instagram.com/p/o3istLHo-k/

The slack line... His groin... It works on so many levels....